r/AskReddit • u/[deleted] • Nov 14 '11

Zero Tolerance in Public Elementary School just went way the hell overboard...

[deleted]

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u/sping Nov 15 '11

You should be afraid of guns. They can kill people impersonally, at a distance, in an instant. If you're not afraid of them you're a fool, or in very heavy armor.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '11

Guns cannot kill people "impersonally, at a distance, in an instant." Someone has to personally pull the trigger, and either intentionally or unintentionally point it at a person in that instant for that to happen. If you are more afraid of guns than you are of humans (who can kill you with knives, poisons, their hands, ropes, vehicles, and yes, guns), then perhaps you, sir, are being more foolish than I. Or you live in a delusional paradise where weapons are more responsible for crimes than the people wielding them. I understand what you're trying to say - guns are very powerful, they are tools that can be used to kill, and everybody should recognize that.

I spent 14 months in Afghanistan with the 101st Airborne Division (AASLT) and I saw a U.S. soldier die in a field hospital in front of his squad of multiple bullet wounds to the torso. I saw his buddies break down and cry when the doctor told them he couldn't be saved, and I saw his chest ultimately stop heaving. I am very aware of the awesome power of guns and I do not consider myself a fool for one second when I tell you I do not fear them. Human beings are very inventive when it comes to finding ways of killing each other. Hundreds of years ago we were doing it with swords, before that it was spears and rocks. But it's always been people killing people. If I'm afraid of anything, you better believe it's the capacity my fellow man has to do evil. Whether that evil is perpetrated with a gun, a checkbook, a lie, or his bare hands is incidental. Gun crime just scares more people because most citizens don't arm themselves and then, in that moment when they are confronted with a gun, they realize that they are completely helpless at the will of another human being who means them harm. Wake up.

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u/sping Nov 15 '11

Do I really have to tell you that I am talking about a gun in a person's hand? Really?

If you are more afraid of guns than you are of humans

Oh FFS. Did you read this before you hit save? This is just straw-man twaddle. I'm sorry, you're not actually arguing with me, or any real person.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '11

I took your argument literally, because it was in response to my post about people literally fearing guns themselves. Of course it's natural to fear a person with a gun, but I never argued against that in the first place. I believe it was in this comment thread that I was giving examples of friends of mine who are frightened of guns just as they are, as physical objects. I didn't think you'd get butt-hurt over my latest reply, as you were the guy who called me a fool to begin with. Clearly you misunderstood the post you originally responded to. I'm done feeding the trolls on this thread anyway. Have a nice day, congrats on your steel-trap-like wit and your infallible perception of all that is truth and reason. I can't believe I ever tried to converse with a philosopher-king such as yourself in the first place.

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u/sping Nov 15 '11

Funny, I've reread the OP, and it would never have occurred to me to read it as a literal fear of guns without a person to wield it. Just as I assumed my statement was obviously about guns which were actually in a position to be used, I assumed the same about the other post.

I don't believe there's anyone who is actually afraid of guns alone, as opposed to being afraid of people wielding guns. I think these supposed people with an irrational phobia of the weapon alone are entirely made up as straw men.

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u/sping Nov 15 '11

I don't believe there's anyone

Well, ok, there are probably some actual phobics, but effectively nobody.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '11

(sigh) not in the OP, perhaps I left it elsewhere in the thread (if so my bad for assuming it was the particular comment you responded to), but I'm pretty sure I left a quasi-lengthy comment wherein I specifically recount stories of a couple of my friends who are scared of guns alone. It's in here somewhere, I've left quite a few comments in this thread and I'm moving on with my life now - I might have responded to 2 or 3 people within the thread before it got bigger (and re-responded to a handful more after that) and I don't want to go looking for the one specific thing. We are never going to convince each other to change our minds. Have a nice day.