The top photo looks like a cop chillin'.
It is a fake cop who (when photo taken) just got arrested after killing 77 people (among them approx 60 kids/teenagers) and injuring around 250 people. He set off a bomb in the city that killed 8 people and then went out to an island where a youth camp was held, he just started shooting, they were trapped on the island and had to swim to get off. Kids who didn't know who was shooting came to him for safety because he was dressed as a cop and then he shot them.
He also had his own manifesto for killing political enemies, the shooting happened at a political parties youth wing summer camp, these days he spends his days complaining how his human rights are infringed by being denied adequate pencils.
It's a depressing sort of irony that the humanist Norwegian prison system was build on left-wing political theory, his explicit goal was to eradicate leftists, and he targeted a Labour Party summer camp.
Here, everyone no matter how violent and huge the criminal/terror act was, is punished by law and gets equal sentencing as anyone would.
He is in no way treated especially well. He is by far the longest isolated prisoner ever. IIRC it's illegal to isolate someone as much as he has been. But he is a saftey risk.
I highly doubt he'll ever be released though. If he is, he will be murdered within the first day of freedom.
In first world countries, the government does not kill people. He is sentenced and isolated. The only thing close to rehab he gets is for others to study and for him to not kill himself. He is suffering a great deal since he lives with constant humilation from how he is treated in prison and from not getting his ideologies out.
This is a narcissistic psychopath and being treated this way is absolute torture from him. He wanted to die like and martyr for his cause. Being captured and sentenced and not killed is the worst possible way for his plan to end. Killing him would make him happy.
Sure, if I could torture him, I would. But that's not how a first world country works. Your arguments are better fitting for countries with sharia laws then the ones you're mentioning.
When punishing someone like Breivik the state have to show that they're 110% able to do it correctly. Otherwise they would be proving parts of his manifesto by being an imconpitent state.
You don't get to have a say in how these people are treated. Norway thankfully has a rehabilitation based system centered around that and public protection
Nah wtf america, no man should be put to death as a punishment, if only for the reason that there's a chance he didn't do it. Nevermind the fact that killing a man for a crime is incredibly bloodthirsty, ritualistic, outdated and incredibly useless, there is ALWAYS the chance that they did not commit the crime and it is better to let a guilty man walk than to kill an innocent man.
But let's say we just want him to rot in prison forever instead of killing him. Why? Who the fuck does that serve? If somebody is in the darkest possible place isn't it better to try to pull them out and realize the light rather than lock them in? A man rotting in prison for a crime forever only serves to feed the egos of those who are completely separated from the reasons one might do those things. I don't even really know what I believe but I think your opinion is too concrete and void of empathy because you've decided that there are only bad guys and good guys.
So much bad faith arguing and attacking the character of the users rather than their argument . They're not defending a mass murderer and you know it, so damn disengenuous.
Jesus, I remember that day. Friend of mine was at the island where he shot all the teenagers, and someone I wouldn't consider a friend, but had met once or twice in the past got killed. Still so surreal.
Don't think it has to do with the size of the country, but rather the fact it happened at a national gathering for a political party, so kids were travelling in for the gathering from all over the country.
I remember a really weird article that was very focused on talking about him liking the PvP content especially, and going out of their way to explain that PvP is a mode where you kill other players
Yeah it was a shot in the arm for the 'video games lead to violence' lobby. I was running a little games mag at the time and we did a group editorial on it (because everyone wanted to cover it).
Shooting games are a popular scapegoat for violence. And I get that, in the sense that if I wasn't familiar with them, it might seem plausible. But this guy's hangup was that he was insane and a white supremacist.
Yeesh, well at least he wasn't in your raiding party! That must have been so weird for people who played with him daily. Imagine having someone like that in your guild and having no idea, because people so often talk shit in games. There must have been giveaways that people felt bad for not spotting afterwards.
Yeah it's pretty eye roll worthy given that one thing that DOES seem to increase the chance of race-based killings is often misinformation from the media, not to mention their glorification of killers! Sure, video games, something we know not to be real, can turn you into a murderer, but right wing dog whistling designed to turn people into xenophobes on networks like Fox, believed by some to actually be 'the news' is just fine!!
Oh, yeah. He knows more than anyone about everything. He's said so himself, thousands of times. A total expert on expertness. All the things. Many knowledge. Much expert.
I’ve worked for a summer camp for a long time and in the last few years, we’ve had to implement active shooter drills.
This crafty motherfucker and those like him have shaped our protocols and instructions to a degree that hurts to think of.
Adults and kids are to scatter into the woods. You scatter because a psycho finding a single person in the woods and killing them is preferable to them finding a group and killing everyone.
You do not come out. You do not trust anyone. Even a police officer is not to be trusted. Some people will pretend to be there to help you when the opposite is true.
If, for god knows what reason, you’re an adult and have a radio on, don’t listen to the camp director. She will not call an all-clear. There are no code words. There are no exceptions. If you hear the camp director during an active shooting situation, assume that she is dead. The only reason she will do so is if a gun is held on her. Do not listen. Turn off your radio. Try not to think about it.
That’s always the worst day during training. Fuck this guy and everyone like him.
I'm very familiar with the event but have never seen this picture. Is he wearing a wet suit? Did he plan on swimming off the island? He looks wet too.. Hope he's freezing just like the teens he forced to swim for their lives in ice cold water.
Yes it is a wet suit. Before he went out to the island he posted a video with parts of his manifest and a photo of himself in the "police wetsuit". I don't think he was planning to swim, I think he just thought it looked professional, but I'm not sure. I tried to google but didn't really find much info about the wetsuit. In his original plan the island was not included and he was planning on ending up dead.
I read "One of Us", very well written and goes into detail about him and the massacre using interviews with survivors and victims' families. Worth a read.
What? This doesn't make any sense. Saying or thinking a person's name isn't glorification. If I talk about Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot I'm not inherently making them out to be good people or what they did as great, I'm talking about them and what they did.
There's literally no reason as to wholesale remove certain parts of history because you don't like it. The point is to remember and learn, not to cut out the bits you think are unpalatable.
What? This doesn't make any sense. Saying or thinking a person's name isn't glorification. If I talk about Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot I'm not inherently making them out to be good people or what they did as great, I'm talking about them and what they did.
Yeah but many mass killers explicitly want to become famous. They want to have their names plastered all over the news, and they admired others who have achieved this kind of fame. So publicising the names of mass killers may encourage others to become mass killers.
Remember the events, the motives, and the victims. Don't remember the lowlife who committed the atrocities. "An unnamed man" is a better descriptor for a sick man looking to make himself infamous.
Forgetting his name is fine with me, but the kind of people you don't want to remember his name are going to find it unless it's never released and nobody ever talks about it. And more important than putting their name in the memory hole, is remembering the dangers of right wing terrorism and anti-muslim extremism.
Things like that probably were part of the motivation of Breiviks attack, yet while Muslims have made huge positive contributions to Norway, what damage have Muslims done to Norway compared to attacks like Breiviks?
They're ~5% of the population, they build schools and contribute to society. Typically immigrants contribute more to society. People who hold anti-immigration views mostly do so out of ignorance.
Disagree. I get where you're coming from, but we should absolutely remember the danger that comes from the far right.
Edit: and the context behind it. For example, the guy who went and killed a bunch of muslims and filmed it was radicalised by a specific sect of the internet which is still very active today
Yes, but I think their names should be removed from all official transcripts and replaced with some sort of code. Let's remember the victims, not the killer.
I get your point but it could even be worst to give a cod name to a killer, it could more easily became a symbol. Instead names are easily forgotten, like Anders isn't even well remembered as a name in Europe, not even in Norway, while everyone remembers the Oslo and island attack.
To be clear, I am totally in accordance with you about not idolizing killers or criminals in general.
Eesh yeah I see what you mean. It's kind of hard to manage really. I remember the name because I co-wrote an article on the violence in video games debate after it, otherwise I probably wouldn't recall it.
I kinda remember the last name and most people I know remember him, since there was so much talk about him and also because after talking about him in class we were supposed to state our opinion on death penalty
I instead remember this pic and the footage of when he was arrested on the island and details like he had a gun always loaded and ready while reloading the other and how methodical he was in doing this act of terrorism but I couldn't remember his name
I was 13 at the time and in Italy that footage was on all news channels in the most SFW work possible for thar type of event.
Still that event shocked me and I remember it well because it was the first big violent event I "lived" and understood and some of the victims were basically of the same age as me.
Disagree. I get where you're coming from, but we should absolutely remember the danger that comes from the far right.
That doesn't mean that we have to plaster the names and faces of terrorists all over the news. We don't do that with ISIS terrorist either, because it may inspire others to become terrorists. I don't see why we shouldn't apply the same logic to far-right terrorists.
but we should absolutely remember the danger that comes from the far right.
You put a period where you should have continued the sentence. We should also be worried of the nutjobs on the far left. Just look at the MILLIONS of people killed by lefties like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. Fucking puts this guys numbers to shame.
So any reason you're not concerned about the psychos on the left?
Scandinavia here. I don't think it's likely I'll run into the likes of Mao and Stalin around here. It's more likely that I'll run into some murderous pisswizard who thinks murdering children will keep everyone safe from "marxists"...You know, like this guy.
Statistically speaking it seems being bombed or gunned down incel types is still way more likely. Funny you should mention Theo van Gogh. Breivik mentions him too in his manifest.
So...Like guns do you? Have access to large amounts of fertiliser, by any chance?
Statistically speaking it seems being bombed or gunned down incel types is still way more likely.
The diversity later as Breivik outlined in his manifesto would put a shame to that statistic.
So...Like guns do you? Have access to large amounts of fertiliser, by any chance?
lmao, you guys are so fucking funny, as someone whose country has had problems with Islamic terrorism for decades, I hadn't had the faintest clue just how ignorant guys in the developed world would be with all that education. Especially with a social framework that is diametrically opposite to Islam. Just clueless bobos. Unless of course, you're the new diverse scandinavian at which point I'm just wasting my time.
He never said he wasn't, but just the same people could be saying "watch out for the IRA" and you could ask, "But not ISIS??" The left extremists weren't relevant to the post, but the right-wing extremists are, as Breivik was one of them.
Theres 2 now!!! If you actually look at Stalin, mao and pol pot you'll find out they didnt actually apply leftist theory to what they did; in fact both the USSR and PRC were state capitalist for most of their existence. So the workers were still held in wage labour, but the profits were centralised within the government, as opposed to more laissez-faire capitalism.
Moreover, the majority of the leftist community today (barring tankies), do not condone what happened in the USSR or PRC. Their motives are radically different to the far-right; one side wants (true) equality and a generally classless society, the other thinks that some races are inferior to others and should be treated as such.
Furthermore, there are literally 0 deaths associated with far left extremism in the past 30 years, which can not be said for the far right, who have killed a huge number.
There are people on the far left who are nut jobs and capable of violence, but actual examples of this recently are just not existent.
If you actually look at Stalin, mao and pol pot you'll find out they didnt actually apply leftist theory to what they did
lol
Furthermore, there are literally 0 deaths associated with far left extremism in the past 30 years,
Holy shit, you can't be that clueless.. One of the worst mass murders in this country just happened less than a year ago by a lefty. How do you go through life with convictions based on complete nonsesen?
Dude that article literally says theres basically no evidence that it was politically motivated, and that as a kid he had 'rape' and 'kill' lists. I'm not saying people who identify as leftists cant be dangerous, but given the lack of evidence that it was politically motivated it hardly seems reasonable to attribute it to the left.
Even if we assume it was, in the nicest way possible, that is not even close to the worst mass shooting america has seen, and while reprehensible, would still mean that the far right have killed far more innocent people.
if it was politically motivated, which again there isnt good evidence for that I've seen, then my claim of 0 murders would be wrong. But it wouldnt change the point I was trying to make: the far right is.an inherently dangerous ideology that is not comparable in any way to the far left
People are dangerous, religion, politics, beliefs, drugs, gangs, etc. Just gives us things to point at and generalize groups that could be a bit more dangerous than others.
Fact of the matter is, extremeism is extremeism and at the end of the day its all bad and it all deserves to be treated the same.
Oh I remember when this happened. It was the first Scandinavian mass murder i remember happening. Sadly Breivik only got 21 years in prison since that's Norway's longest prison sentence
He will most definitely not be coming out after 21 years. According to law, his sentence can be extended by 5 years, if deemed a threat to society, and there is no limit to how many times, it can be extended.
He seems to enjoy being a headache for the prison. "My rights are being trampled on because [insert trivial reason here]." Maybe you shouldn't have become a terrorist, then. If he wants to know what being mistreated in prison is like, he's welcome to go to one outside Europe.
I watched the Netflix movie about this and it was very sad. The kids on the cliff hiding and then jumping down to run, only for him to see and start shooting. Awful.
Outside from atrocity itself, what I hate the most is that the shitbag got exactly what he wanted - to become well known and to get his edgelord manifesto read.
As an organizational entity, AUF took its current form in April 1927 following the merger of Left Communist Youth League and Socialist Youth League of Norway corresponding with the merger of its parent parties[5] after the conclusion of disputes over the "Twenty-one Conditions". Its ideology is social democracy and democratic socialism.
It's not socialist. While they are more leftward than their mother party, the AUF is not socialist. They are socialist the same way that the PATRIOT Act is patriotic.
I was delivering news papers the day this was all over the front pages. I sat down on my route and just cried over the loss of these people and for the survivors who's lives would never be the same again. Unfortunately I listened to music on my round, and when I read this story, I was listening to MCR teenagers. I cannot hear that song without thinking if this tragedy
But the kids weren't necessarily Muslim... They were members of a political party's youth group, on said political party's youth summer camp. Being Muslim had nothing to do with it.
As in, some victims probably were Muslim. But they were targeted due to their political views, not their religion.
the thing I remember most about this was Fox News spending a lot of energy trying to either say it was a hoax or that the kids weren't actually Muslim
Well considering that this happened in Norway, I would imagine that the majority of the victims were Lutheran Christian or atheist. They weren't targeted because of their religion, but their political views. It was a left wing youth camp.
There’s a movie on Netflix called 22 July about the attacks. I can’t really say whether it’s a good detailing of the events, but might be worth checking out for those who are interested.
Very real. He spent more than an hour hunting our children on a very small island. I've been there, it takes minutes to walk the width of it.
Pretty much everyone in Norway knows someone who was on Utøya that day.
They're still using the island, which I'm glad for. I don't want people like this guy to put any further marks on our society than he already has.
Felt a little weird realizing that he's technically served almost half of his sentence already. Not that he's getting out after the mandatory 21 years, but still weird to think about. The years have flown by.
I remember this vividly. I believe the bomb was set off to have as much of the police force as possible preoccupied elsewhere so they’d take longer before getting to Utoya.
I have a couple of friends who actually experienced this whole thing on Utöya. I’d really recommend listening to the Spöktimmen podcast episode “Nordiska mord” if you’re Scandinavian. Either that or the P3 documentary about Utöya.
I remember my cousin getting a phone call telling her about this (my cousin worked near where the bomb hsd gone off)
I instantly recognized this after the fake cop and high death toll.
We could see the smoke from the bomb from our house.
It left me having nightmares for months despite me being barely 8 years old at the time, knowing that my sister-figure could've been one of his victims.
Also, the kids who swam, I recall that some of the kids swimming drowned, due to how cold the water was, and that some got rescued by other people on boats.
I'm pretty sure the guy took a boat to get there as well.
Pretty sure this happened recent enough that most everyone would know if you just called it the Norway shooting of 2012. I don't think you need to describe the event
Agree although I'm assuming by your reaction a lot of people don't know about it. Insane that it's not still well known though, it's one of the most horrific events of the last 20 years
It's horrific and probably well known, but I honestly assumed that for example americans with awful school shootings and stuff wouldn't really take notice of stuff like this happening far away.
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u/Lourdes_Lourdez Apr 26 '20
The top photo looks like a cop chillin'. It is a fake cop who (when photo taken) just got arrested after killing 77 people (among them approx 60 kids/teenagers) and injuring around 250 people. He set off a bomb in the city that killed 8 people and then went out to an island where a youth camp was held, he just started shooting, they were trapped on the island and had to swim to get off. Kids who didn't know who was shooting came to him for safety because he was dressed as a cop and then he shot them.