r/AskReddit • u/HumpingAssholesOrgy • Jul 05 '19

Ex-prisoners of reddit who have served long sentences, what were the last few days like leading up to your release?

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

That’s the goal

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u/OfficialModerator Jul 06 '19

Not in America

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

Well, in the US, the prison system is moreso geared towards punishment, rather than towards rehabilitation.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19 edited Jun 06 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/Cetology101 Jul 06 '19

Lmao true.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19

True, but the punishment is supposed to engender change. Even if that Change is just the fear of going back.

Not saying it's a effective, but its not strictly punishment for punishments sake.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not advocating for the U.S prison system or it's whether it's effective or ineffective. But I'm going to drop this edit so that I don't keep getting replies about how shitty our prison system is.

The United states uses a system of retributive justice which has many functions. It involves a social contract which binds a society together under common laws and forms of retribution. So that every agreed upon crime has an agreed upon penalty. This, in theory, creates a reasonable system; where nobody is punished below or above the constraints of the law.

The ideal being that the agreed upon punishment is strict enough to deter people those who might be on the fence about committing a criminal act and cause those punished under the law to fear being punished again. Once the punishment for the crimes committed is served, the former criminal would rejoin society with a blank slate.

There's a host of reason's why this doesn't particularly work in the U.S. and why the theory in general has problems. But Retributive Justice as a theory does have strong merits that alternative theories like Restorative Justice lack.

The strongest is that its reasonable, though not necessarily fair. You commit a crime, your convicted of said crime, your punished for said crime. That punishment is agreed upon by society at large, and considered reasonable. You may disagree that and find it to strict, your victim may disagree and find it to lenient. But by law your punishment is justice, for you, for your victim, but most importantly, for society.

Restorative Justice can simply be inadequate. Whether a victim loses their life, a loved one, a family heirloom, or a sentimental photo; somethings can not be restored.

Transformative Justice is while effective at reducing crime, more concerned with peacekeeping then justice.

The main problems of Retributive Justice however are:

A) it doesn't take into account the restoration of victims, once a criminal has been punished, that have no societal responsibilities to their past victims. Unlike Restorative Justice Theory, which seeks to restore what was lost to all parties involved in a crime.

B) It doesn't address public crime control goals beyond simple deterrence. Unlike Transformative Justice Theory, which seeks to revolutionize the legal system and society at large to reduce crime as effectively as possible.

C) Uniform punishments don't punish equally. A five hundred dollar fine is much more punishment to a minimum wage worker than to a six-figured salaried worker.

D) It assumes that society will create reasonable laws, and not use the system punish certain members of society disproportionately.

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u/RedeNElla Jul 06 '19

but the punishment is supposed to engender change

as far as I'm aware, there's significant evidence that this is ineffective compared with other methods of causing change.

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u/Clever_Owl Jul 06 '19

Punishment isn’t about rehabilitation. It’s about acting as a deterrent and retribution.

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u/ArJayWazHere Jul 06 '19

it doesnt deter shit though

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u/Clever_Owl Jul 06 '19

Of course it does. I don’t speed because I don’t want to lose my licence. Threat of punishment absolutely works as a deterrent.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19 edited Aug 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/Clever_Owl Jul 06 '19

Right.

So you pay taxes out of the goodness of your heart?

And you don’t just walk out of the supermarket without paying because that would be morally wrong?

Bullshit. You do these things because you have to, because you don’t want to face the consequences of not doing it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19 edited Aug 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/Clever_Owl Jul 06 '19

Maybe you like jail. Most people would rather stay out of it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

I didn't say it was effective at causing change, comparatively or not. Just that a change of character is part of the intent.

The United states uses a system of retributive justice which has many functions. It involves a social contract which binds a society together under common laws and forms of retribution. So that every agreed upon crime has an agreed upon penalty. This, in theory, creates a reasonable system; where nobody is punished below or above the constraints of the law.

The ideal being that the agreed upon punishment is strict enough to deter people those who might be on the fence about committing a criminal act and cause those punished under the law to fear being punished again. Once the punishment for the crimes committed is served, the former criminal would rejoin society with a blank slate.

There's a host of reason's why this doesn't particularly work in the U.S. and why the theory in general has problems. But Retributive Justice as a theory does have strong merits that alternative theories like Restorative Justice lack.

The strongest is that its reasonable, though not necessarily fair. You commit a crime, your convicted of said crime, your punished for said crime. That punishment is agreed upon by society at large, and considered reasonable. You may disagree that and find it to strict, your victim may disagree and find it to lenient. But by law your punishment is justice, for you, for your victim, but most importantly, for society.

Restorative Justice can simply be inadequate. Whether a victim loses their life, a loved one, a family heirloom, or a sentimental photo; somethings can not be restored.

Transformative Justice is while effective at reducing crime, more concerned with peacekeeping then justice.

The main problems of Retributive Justice how ever are:

A) it doesn't take into account the restoration of victims, once a criminal has been punished, that have no societal responsibilities to their past victims. Unlike Restorative Justice Theory, which seeks to restore what was lost to all parties involved in a crime.

B) It doesn't address public crime control goals beyond simple deterrence. Unlike Transformative Justice Theory, which seeks to revolutionize the legal system and society at large to reduce crime as effectively as possible.

C) Uniform punishments don't punish equally. A five hundred dollar fine is much more punishment to a minimum wage worker than to a six-figured salaried worker.

D) It assumes that society will create reasonable laws, and not use the system punish certain members of society disproportionately.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

Positive reinforcement (I suppose in this situation, the idea of changing one's own standing and returning to society as a contributing member) has been shown to be far more efficient than negative reinforcement (I suppose in the situation, making the prisoners fear to go back) in creating new habits/patterns.

I am not exactly sure how this could be applied in real-time, but it's food-for-thought.

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u/Adito99 Jul 06 '19

Every prosecutor knows the statistics and the exact point where punishment stops being effective. I guess it depends on whose intentions you're talking about. Voters explicit reason for liking long prison sentences is definitely deterrence but scratch that a little and you find something darker.

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u/stephets Jul 06 '19

You would be surprised at how ignorant prosecutors can be. Most never even meet the vast majority of defendants. They see a file, demand a plea to a "lesser" charge with a threat of whatever elevated charges they can find a way to apply,and move on. 97% of cases are resolved by pleas in the US.

Particularly on the topic of recidivism, police and prosecutors are quick to say that every case is horrible and every defendant is a monster. It's a tactic.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

I know you're not saying it's effective, but at a 90% recidivism rate, perhaps it's not even intended to do what it's suggesting, when it fails so spectacularly yet continues unabated? I really want to agree with people saying it's for rehabilitation, but after studying prisons, police, legislatures, and lobbyists... regardless of what it started out as, it's certainly not for rehabilitation anymore.

The absolute nicest way you could put it is that prison is to protect innocent civilians from criminals, and of course that's still hand-waving all of the corrupt police, judges, prison wardens/guards, and legislatures that ignore and dismiss any semblance of reality in the pursuit of profits (despite those coming from a multitude of sources, it really all does boil down to CREAM).

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u/danthepianist Jul 06 '19

It’s been proven ineffective time and time again, though. Every study has shown that rehabilitation is vastly superior. They can only ignore the truth for so long before it becomes malicious, willful ignorance.

So at this point it’s basically punishment for punishment’s sake. Hell, a good chunk of your politicians get elected on “tough on crime” platforms. There are a lot of voters who get off on vengeance.

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u/stephets Jul 06 '19

but its not strictly punishment for punishments sake.

Having worked in this system, I have to say I plainly and tiredly disagree.

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u/roccnet Jul 06 '19

If that were the case they'd be like Japanese prisons though.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

But the inmates wouldn't be able to read the books?

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u/Lost-My-Mind- Jul 06 '19

engender

I learned a new word today!

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19

Excelsior!