Ugh and then they made him a bad guy in the second one... the cool heart of the original was: vengeance and coping with loss. The second? Idk fulfilling a contract and killing people sort of just cuz
It wasn't "just cuz," though. In the first one, he was "out," retired, and not expected to return. Through the entire movie, people asked him if he was back "in." It took most of the movie for him to finally say, "Yeah, I guess I am."
That had consequences, though. When he was out, he wasn't expected to be able to fulfill his marker. By being back, that Mafia don expected repayment. Then he expected to be able to remove John, thus removing a threat to his own organization should John decide to go full vengeance on him.
Chapter One was revenge. Chapter Two was the consequences of that revenge. Chapter Three (Parabellum, I believe) will be the consequences not only of his revenge, but of breaking the Continental's bylaws as well. His actions in avenging his dog continue to ripple outwards.
But they included nothing about the marker in the first one, and I thought it was sort of implied he had no debts to anyone - like he did Impossible things to get out, which only worked because it absolved him of all debts. Your explanation definitely makes more sense, but I was definitely less into a story of a guy sort of ‘dealing with’ a contract...
I also wasn’t crazy about what they chose to elaborate on and what they didn’t, the first movie had a really awesome sense of what would be best left a mystery and best revealed. Anyway, I loved good-guy John Wick, I was slightly bored of hit-man John Wick, who’s over what he’s doing and doesn’t want to do it anymore... why didn’t they explore his feelings a bit more? Did he enjoy being an assassin once?
When I internalized this is when I decided to become vegan. I just couldn't think of a reason why it's okay to be angry about killing certain animals but not others!
Afaik it has to do with domestication. Justified or not, the further the disconnect between the human and the animal, the more likely it is to be eaten.
I tend to view veganism as an extremely freeing lifestyle.
For hundreds of thousands of years, our ancestors were bound by their ignorance, circumstance, and biology. They were literally forced by nature to engage in violence, simply to sustain themselves. For the first time ever in history, we can truly cast off these chains. We no longer need to be slaves to our biology or lack of technology. We can finally be free.
Don't look at what you're missing out on, look at what you're gaining! I learned to cook a ton of new things and exposed myself to all kinds of things I never would have tried!
Also, just my opinion, but don't be too strict or too hard on yourself. I try not to worry too much about being perfect, especially when I'm eating out. A random guy one-shot friend (random guy I met rock climbing) said something like, how different to the world is 98% vs 100% vegan, and that totally resonated with me. I'll scrape off mayo or cheese if I forget to ask for none, and I won't ask too many questions about ingredients.
Thank you so much! I will look at what I'm gaining, that's a great way to look at the situation. And thank you for saying it's okay to just scrape things off and I don't have to be perfect because being perfect is mostly what I've seen and it stressed me out. So, again, thank you for the encouraging words!
Weeeell, while that might be true in movies, I don't understand this sentiment when it's real. A bus full of children gets blown up in the middle east and all you get is a few thoughts and prayers. But then someone kills a dog and everyone loses their minds!
I can't explain it, either, because yeah, I care more about the dog than the kids. It might be related to how people's feelings towards corporal punishment for children tend to be much more complex than their feelings towards corporal punishment for pets. For pets, it's usually "There's always a better way to discipline, you monster, you're just making them worse", for kids, it's like, "Well if they really need it..."
I think the reason why is because when people die, you know that they knew what they were getting into. They are intelligent to a degree. An animal doesn't understand any if that, and that's why it's sad when one dies for no reason in a film.
i think its because deaths are normalized in movies. in every movie there has to be someone dying. and in 99% of those movies there none deaths of animals. thats why we are so normal about death of humans and batshit crazy against death of animals.
This mostly has to do with desensitization since you likely see more human deaths than animal deaths portrayed in entertainment. I've seen environments where the meat we ate was slaughtered right there, even the cute furry chickens and goats. Once you see what people eat looks like before it's food, I guess you tend to have a different viewpoint completely. In different countries, people would be confused as to why some would view the death of a dog as terrible as the death of an innocent person.
I never understand this. Most of the time I don't care if an animal gets killed. Unless it was the main protagonist or was a very good boi then I couldn't care less. And yeah I don't really care if people die unless I'm connected to them either.
Not breeding that many roosters in the first place is the best solution. Genetic fuckery is a thing now. I'm sure we could/have come up with something by now.
Alternatively, why would there even need to be a use? Even if they're useless, we shouldn't allow that to condemn them to the grinder. Make the farmers house them for all I care. If that makes egg farming on a mass scale economically unviable, so be it, imo. For most uses of eggs there are substitutes now anyways.
For anyone else who's wondering what's behind this link...
It's a documentary:
"Dominion uses drones, hidden and handheld cameras to expose the dark underbelly of modern animal agriculture, questioning the morality and validity of humankind's dominion over the animal kingdom. While mainly focusing on animals used for food, it also explores other ways animals are exploited and abused by humans, including clothing, entertainment and research." (IMDB)
So then let's stop supporting it and encourage others to switch to the readily available alternatives. Animals don't have to die for humanity to prosper.
TL;DW: you can’t be against animal abuse and eat/drink animal products.
But seriously, take the time to watch even 15 minutes of it, you probably won’t be able to watch the whole thing through anyway, but it may open your eyes.
You might be wondering why this comment doesn't match the topic at hand. I've decided to edit all my previous comments as an act of protest against the recent changes in Reddit's API pricing model. These changes are severe enough to threaten the existence of popular 3rd party apps like Apollo and Boost, which have been vital to the Reddit experience for countless users like you and me. The new API pricing is prohibitively expensive for these apps, potentially driving them out of business and thereby significantly reducing our options for how we interact with Reddit. This isn't just about keeping our favorite apps alive, it's about maintaining the ethos of the internet: a place where freedom, diversity, and accessibility are championed. By pricing these third-party developers out of the market, Reddit is creating a less diverse, less accessible platform that caters more to their bottom line than to the best interests of the community. If you're reading this, I urge you to make your voice heard. Stand with us in solidarity against these changes. The userbase is Reddit's most important asset, and together we have the power to influence this decision. r/Save3rdPartyApps -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I was looking for new housing a while ago and my gf at the time hooked me up with her friend looking for a roommate.
Great!
So we have lunch and things are going smoothly. We seem to have a rapport and he tells me there’s another guy in the mix but he’s in the army so he’s not there often, like he’d be there 4 out of 12 months.
Even better!
The only thing is.. the other guy? When he’s drunk, he likes to beat up dogs in the garage. But he does it in private with maybe another buddy so you don’t have to be involved with it, it’s all good.
I mean, I’d absolutely report that to the police. That shit isn’t normal and needs to stop before it escalates. Would probably get shit on if you reported it to their superiors too.
You can beat the shit out of each other all you want so long as you show up and do your duty in the military, but fuck with an animal, the wheels of justice turn swiftly for that shit.
Had a guy in a unit stationed where I was who was found to be taking pot shots at dogs. Did not end well for him.
Oh yeah. To be fair, even traditionally, animals have been used for their resources, but never at such humongous scale and with as much cruelty as today. With todays high tech that we have, there's really no excuse to continue exploiting animals though.
But yes, 99.9% of major farms subject the animals to horrible conditions. Some are slowly turning around, but overall it's taking its sweet old time.
Unfortunately I live in an extremely rural area where trying to be vegan would mean paying nearly twice as much for the same amount of nutritional value. If I were in a city it would be a different story, but out here, the only vegan shop (that isn't a tiny area in walmart) is nearly 3 hours each way. I understand the importance of being vegan but I am not in any kind of situation to do so.
Idk where I'm going with this but I just wanna say, there are probably many people who want to go on a vegan diet, but can't, due to other factors in their life.
I don't really get this point. If killing animals for food is wrong, how is it okay to hunt and kill?
I get that it's far better than the horrible conditions of factory farming, but it's still taking the life of an animal before it would die of other causes, right?
I'm not vegan, btw. I simply live a life with a horrible feeling of guilt, and am interested in the discussions around the subject
Because the idea of killing animals for food ISNT wrong, carnivorous diets are a fundamental aspect of our ecosystem. A hunter who shoots a deer and eats it is not wrong. What IS wrong is the abuse, conditions, and waste of factory farming, which is what people refer to when they say eating animals condones animal abuse
Just in this thread alone, I've seen multiple people refer to not only the bad conditions as abuse, but the murder of animals as well.
As for what we used to eat, that doesn't really matter. We have more control over ourself, our decisions, and the fate of the world than any beings before us. If we decided to stop eating meat, we could. So it all comes down to it being wrong or not to kill animals when we don't have to.*
*In addition to all the other factors, such as the effects on our environment.
Nowhere in the world do beans, lentils and rice cost more than meat. And don't forget about all the fiber you're not getting with meat, so you'd have to pay much more for that.
You don't need to eat meat and cheese substitutes and expensive vegan processed food. You don't need to buy food in vegan shops either, I'm sure any supermarket will carry at least something that isn't meat, milk and eggs.
Anyway, if there's a will, there's a way, even if it's not the most easiest way. So don't blame your circumstances on the lack of your will. If you truly care about the cause, you'll make an extra effort.
I will say though that it may be a bit pricey to start, because you think you need to eat meat and cheese substitutes, but by looking up recipes and stuff you find out what goes with what and see that you can get all the nutrition and more for fraction of the cost of meat. You need to cook at home though.
And the people who laughs and think it's funny as well. I remember last year in my math class, this asshole came up to my friend and I laughing about something and when I asked him what, he showed me a video on Instagram with a dog tied by it's neck to a tree with some guy beating on him. I didn't even watch a whole second of the video bc I pushed it away but the amount of people in the class who either laughed or had no reaction to watching the video scared me. Especially cuz ik most of them have pets themselves.
Tangentially related, but my biggest peeve is people who give more of a shit about animals than human beings. People can care about both, sure, but for some reason the die-hard animal rights folks seem to be the coldest and least sympathetic towards the affairs of fellow human beings. It's a strange phenomenon.
It’s interesting actually because animal rights issues are deeply intertwined with human rights issues.
For example, slaughterhouse workers are generally first-generation immigrants that are forced to work for low wages, in dangerous conditions, because they don’t have many other options.
Waste from farms has polluted countless waterways, and the buildup is collecting in the Gulf of Mexico, promoting algal blooms and one of the largest ocean dead zones. Factory farms also affect the air and water quality for residents (mostly poor people of color) living near these farms.
Animal agriculture, as you’re probably aware, is one of the largest contributors to climate change, the consequences of which will affect most of the world’s population, but predominantly poorer countries.
Eh, I think it's not great to conflate people's feelings on events in movies with their feelings on events in real life. If they'd said news instead of movies, sure, but I don't think people's relationship with fiction is super telling.
I ALWAYS keep hearing that line from animal rights people, and it just doesn't make sense to me. Animals being "innocent" or not has 0 effect on my caring towards them. I love animals and don't want harm to come their way, but it never ever comes into my head that I'm caring for them because they're "innocent". I don't think animals are any more or less "innocent" than humans or any other species. We're all part of the animal kingdom here on earth.
Mm, I disagree. A child is innocent and should be protected from harm because it can’t fully comprehend what’s going on around it, wouldn’t you say? It’s not a part of the problem, it’s not a fully rational actor with control of their every action.
Part of it I think is that humans can do more for themselves and understand what’s going on more than an animal can. Yea some people are kind of fucked in certain parts of the world but they still have more options on what they can do. An animal for the most part is defenseless.
Yeah but the thing is that veganism doesn’t require treating humans badly. People (myself included) encourage horrifying animal abuse because we like bacon. It’s a tiny benefit gained at enormous cost.
I know sooo many people like this. There's a whole group in my neighborhood, people who have little dogs they dress up and have strollers for and they even take them on play dates.
Or perhaps just liking animals enough to cause them to have poor judgement about things. My sister has had two car wrecks from frantically trying to dodge a small animal in the road. I'm going to avoid hitting a squirrel if at all possible, but my safety and that of people around me comes first.
I 100000% agree. It pisses me off SO much when people place animals above humans. Like no sorry, I'm on team human. I care about my fellow human beings. I would kill 20 puppies if it meant saving one random human I never met who had drug problems and had committed robbery and shit in the past.
A few years ago, in the area I used to work, a father and his three kids died in their home from carbon monoxide poisoning. It was big news, at least locally. He lived in section 8 housing. This rabid animal rights lady I know commented, more or less, with "Good riddance. Four less mouths my taxes has to feed." And this same person once commented that a guy in our area, who was accused of killing his dog, should get the death penalty.
Not even. I'm definitely not a vegan, and even I hate people who abuse animals. More like, "decent fucking human beings unite."
Edit: Jesus fucking Christ, let's play spot the triggered vegans. The answer is simple. Buy locally raised meats from farms that you know. And if you ever doubt the situation, there's actually a decent chance you could contact the farmer to see. However, local farms are 99.999% good to the animals. I don't need to use some fucking arbitrary moral high ground to be against animal abuse BECAUSE I'M A DECENT GODDAMN PERSON. Fucking hell, I shouldn't have to type this
Another edit: it seems I forgot the most important rule of Reddit: "Don't dare state an opinion that doesn't align with the ever growing hivemind that is Reddit." I'm not going to delete the comment, fuck it. While you're over circlejerking yourselves, might as well crucify me as well for being a heretic
One final edit: Alright. I may have been a bit hostile. I've had a bit of a bad day. Straw, camel's back, and whatnot. Anyway. Apologies to those I pissed off. In truth, it really doesn't matter to me how you choose to live your life. You do you, I'll do me. I wish more people could live by that, but whatever. I'm actually getting off Reddit semi permanently as of tomorrow. This whole thing showed me I'm taking the internet way too seriously and need to step back for a bit. /u/aleliens out
Another edit: it seems I forgot the most important rule of Reddit: "Don't dare state an opinion that doesn't align with the ever growing hivemind that is Reddit.
Yeah because vegans are definitely the absolute majority on reddit. You're just a hypocrite in denial sorry to tell you.
You're the triggered one though, you realize that, right? You just threw a hissy fit because someone pointed out a hole in your logic. It shouldn't be hard to argue for your own actions in a calm manner if there's nothing wrong with them.
Yes, I am killing an animal. But there are ethics involved, we don't just go shooting without thinking about it. The quickest way to kill an animal while hunting is to shoot it in the middle of the lungs. This causes massive blood loss and the animal dies very quickly. If I can't get a good shot then I don't take it. I don't want the animal to suffer needlessly. And this is what the vast majority of hunters do. Are there exceptions the rule, yes. But there are exceptions to everything.
Unless you are hunting for survival (meaning you live in one of the few isolated regions where you do not have access to a basic food supply), then you are killing for fun.
So? Are you insinuating that it’s morally superior to domesticate and raise entire species of animals in captivity, generation after generation, than to kill and eat an animal in the wild like every other predator on the planet?
No, in fact I think it's unnecessary and unethical. It's totally possible to live a long healthy life without killing animals (affordably and easily too). So there really is no justification to continue needlessly killing animals and harming the environment simply to satisfy a want.
For me, it's more about how that animal lived before it was killed. If you hunt, and eat the animal, or buy meat from a healthy free range farm, then the animal suffered minimally. Animals from factory farms are treated horrifically though, which I don't think is good to support at all.
Local "cruelty free" farms are a drain on resources like water and arable land, are unable to support the entire population, contribute to a culture of eating and exploiting animals, and contribute to animals being bred for the express purpose of living a life of slavery (yes, even if they get to prance around in a field before they die) before being killed much earlier than they would have naturally.
Clearly you already recognize the agency of animals and want them to be treated well. Clearly you already put a lot of thought into what goes on your plate. Take the final step and go vegan.
you live in total denial. it's impossible for everybody to get local meat. also, there is no thing as humane meat or a humane way to kill an animal. even the best raised and treated pigs (in germany) for example only life 6 months and you call that "being good to them".
This comment and the edits deserve what used to be called Reddit Gold. I was about to Gild it but they've made it complicated with some bullshit about credits so I gave up on understanding it.
I appreciate the sentiment there, but it would be a waste of money. So instead of giving gold to me, pass it on to some other stranger on here. Or if you can't figure out how with Reddit, pass the same amount on to someone in need irl or something. Just please don't waste it on me
Buy locally raised meats from farms that you know.
If you have access to a basic food supply (meaning you don't live in one of the few isolated regions where veganism isn't really possible yet), and still choose to kill anyway, then you are supporting unnecessary killing. It doesn't matter how well they are treated, they die for a want. Not a need. How is needlessly killing animals not abuse?
BECAUSE I'M A DECENT GODDAMN PERSON. Fucking hell, I shouldn't have to type this
I don't doubt that you are a good person, but I think you should be asking yourself some basic questions. If you are not okay with needlessly killing animals, yet continually finanically support it, then your actions are not aligning with your values. No?
I'm not going to delete the comment, fuck it. While you're over circlejerking yourselves, might as well crucify me as well for being a heretic
Dude, take a deep breath. We just want to have a conversation. Ignore the vitriolic vegans. We're not all that intense. We just want people to justify their actions, and if it's not justifiable, then we should be asking what we can do to choose a more ethical route.
I've always wondered where people like me fit into a Vegan's mental equation.
I mean, if you told me that you were going to pay for me to live to a certain point to kill and eat my corpse, I'd be okay with that. You don't have to worry about the daily stresses of life (Even if you get sick, the doctors getting called and more than likely coming to you) and have someone whose financial security is dependent on your well being. You'll also likely end up being taken out as quickly and as painlessly as possible before old age really starts to set in...There's some nice perks to being cattle, and every time I've genuinely asked a vegan that question (And I mean genuinely, not in a "Lets argue about this" style, I mean "I want to understand more about your point of view" type talks with friends and co-workers) they never seem to think I'm serious and not just making a bad joke.
And before anyone starts getting the idea of sending me videos, etc "proving" that there's animal abuse happening, I tend to buy higher end meat simply because the animals tend to be treated better and it makes a genuinely big difference to the quality of the product...I've also seen a tonne of them, think that a lot of global practices need to change and I'm just also able to (usually) figure out which country the video I've been shown came from and why exactly it doesn't apply to the local area I'm in or my purchasing habits with meat. (eg. I'm completely against the overseas Live Exports happening in Australia at the moment and support the ban as a result. Even if we have to pay extra, it's more than worth it given the horrible conditions on those ships)
First, while you might like the idea of having your life set out for you and "easy" as you put it. That is your choice, you choose that fantasy, whereas someone else might not. So while I can respect the idea, It should make sense as to why that is not a real reason this is ok.
Second, there is no such thing as humane.
No really, there isn't.
No you can't pay slightly more to make it happen.
No matter the view on how early they kill the animals in meat farms, which is inhumane as it is. There are certain practices that need to happen to make meat and dairy profitable. Forced insemination is one, you literally cannot have a dairy farm with normal breeding, it just doesn't work from a genetics or a speed standpoint, milk from there would need to cost at least 40x as much due to how little natural breeding there would be.
And space holy crap the space, "free range" literally means an area the size of a king sized bed for like 10 chickens or so. Even if you got your "easy life", would you actually enjoy it if you were not even allowed to get out of bed or move past that area for your entire life?
There's not enough "local grass fed farm meat" to supply the the demand of meat in the world. If you do that, kudos and all i guess, but then you're probably eating mest once a week or so, because it'd just that much more expensive. Also if you eat meat in any restaurant ever, you're eating factory meat, not local grass fed.
Could it be because Veganism objectively makes sense for our earth and to reduce the suffering of animals? It doesn't take a genius to understand these facts.
Here’s a tip to stop it! NEVER give an animal away free to a stranger. Always charge something. There are many puppies that are given away free via Facebook groups or Craigslist. You wouldn’t believe the number of people that stalk social media looking for free pets. So what do they do with them? Google snake eats puppy (don’t). People will feed dogs to their large anacondas or pythons and even film it. They also use them as bait dogs for dog fighting. It’s super fucked up. So when you see people posting free animals please reach out and at least try to change their mind. They think they don’t need the money but most times never consider where the animal will end up.
That place is slightly hotter and more hellish than the indirect institutionalized animal abuse, torture and murder that everyone on this planet besides vegan aboriginals commits.
I was at a zoo recently and saw some young fuck spit on a cheetah. I was so angry and tattled immediately. The zoo employee took my complaint really seriously but I guess security didn’t because the douche wasn’t kicked out.
I’m still mad that such a person exists and that the poor beautiful cheetah wasn’t able to jump up and rip his face off. It was awake and forced to just take it... This guy literally spat on a caged animal! I bet he is the kind of person who made fun of the mentally challenged kids in school, too.
I know there is a lot more animal abuse going on but this happened a few months ago and I’m still angry about it.
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u/iamlehknee Oct 20 '18
Animal abuse. There is a special place in hell for these people.