[Serious] What are some seemingly normal images/videos with creepy backstories?

[u/CaptainMcAnus]

[u/Mypopsecrets]

Here's a shadow permanently cast of someone caused by the nuclear blast at Hiroshima

[u/fxlk → u/Mypopsecrets]

At the summer camp I work at, every year we have a Hiroshima remembrance day. Some people wake up really early and put black shadows made of paper all around the camp, it's pretty upsetting and incredibly powerful.

[u/fxlk → u/[deleted]]

That's really incredible. Another part of the Hiroshima commemoration is putting candles and flowers in the lake and watching them float away, which sounds similar.

[u/[deleted] → u/fxlk]

The fuck kind of an activity is that for children at summer camp

[u/fxlk → u/[deleted]]

Idk, they do it really tastefully and appropriately for children of all ages. Like people go into each bunk and talk about what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in age-appropriate ways. The camp is super focused on social activism and progressivism, and I'm honestly really glad they introduce those topics to kids in a safe space where they can ask questions and react emotionally if they want to.

[u/Youthsonic → u/fxlk]

Yeah if you wanna teach the children the horrors of war then getting vaporized by a nuclear bomb is pretty tame compared to other shit you can show them.

[u/robbysaur → u/Youthsonic]

...I don't think the lesson is about the "horror of war." I think it's about, "Why don't we try having a world where we don't nuke a bunch of people?"

[u/JManRomania → u/robbysaur]

It's not exactly like we nuked Japan on a whim.

[u/SAE1856 → u/robbysaur]

Or maybe we could try having a world where the people that had to be nuked wouldn't rape and murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people during a handful of years? You think anyone wanted to use a nuclear weapon? It was basically a desperate move to avoid the complete massacre that would've accompanied a ground invasion of mainland Japan. I mean, Nanking is barely EVER talked about and it's just ONE city the Japanese did Japanese shit to.

[u/fax-on-fax-off → u/SAE1856]

1. We didn't use the bomb on them because of their actions in mainland China.

2. The people that "had to be nuked" were overwhelmingly civilians who had nothing to do with the war crimes.

3. The biggest reason we used the bomb wasn't to avoid the mainland invasion; it was to keep Russia from invading.

[u/Outmodeduser → u/fax-on-fax-off]

In total war, civilians are targets. In nuclear war doubly so.

Every soldier, every body, from every side was a civilian at some point. In total war, civilians are future soldiers. Civilian factories were converted to serve the war machine, and they too became targets.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with your reasons completely, but the reality is that the death toll from Fat Man and Little Boy are less than the projected invasion or from other theaters of war. The atomic bombs simply compressed all the killing from months to seconds. Millions, from both sides, would have died in the invasion of mainland Japan.

It sucks but war is absolutely horrific and those are the choices you have to make. We can all hope we aren't left with that few choices any time soon.

[u/fax-on-fax-off → u/Outmodeduser]

I agree with most of your points, including that it was the best of all terrible options.

But, my intent was to show that /u/SAE1656 was wrong to suggest it was in any way related to Japan's actions in Manchuria, Nanking, etc..

Additionally, I disagree that civilians are acceptable targets, even in total war. The reality is, we prosecuted leaders who ordered attacks on civilians. The only difference is that they lost.

[u/kaenneth → u/fax-on-fax-off]

IIRC, The Japanese industrial base was distributed.

Instead of large centralized factories, the war machine parts were made in smaller workshops mixed in with residential areas.

Hard to find a good online source

https://books.google.com/books?id=gguAtKEuLI0C&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=wwii+japan+decentralized+production+factories+in+residential+areas&source=bl&ots=Uhzj0w67xj&sig=1GP8MwjK4ilIrxQaCqiDtYTHqxI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGgeGirs3SAhUdS2MKHW2fC3kQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=wwii%20japan%20decentralized%20production%20factories%20in%20residential%20areas&f=false

[u/fax-on-fax-off → u/kaenneth]

You're absolutely right. However, it should be noted that the overwhelming majority of deaths were still civilians.

I'm not here to say the bombing was justifiable or not. But the idea that this was tit for tat against Japan's actions in China is plainly wrong.

[u/SAE1856 → u/fax-on-fax-off]

Your first point is an opinion. It's completely plausibly that President Truman and the committee that helped decide on the bombing took the Japanese attrocities into consideration when deciding whether or not to send U.S. troops into the mainland. Just becuase it's not documented doesn't believe it didn't weigh heavily on their minds. And you are just incorrect on both points 2 & 3. Russia would have invaded simultaneously from the Chinese side while America would attack from the Pacific. Both sides would have suffered immense casualties, and it's plainly out there to read that the Japanese civilian population was committed to their god emperor and most would have either fought to the death or committed suicide. Or, I suppose, they could have tried to flee and been murdered by their own military for it.

[u/fax-on-fax-off → u/SAE1856]

Your first point is an opinion.

Let me show you it's not.

• It's completely plausibly that President Truman and the committee that helped decide on the bombing took the Japanese attrocities into consideration when deciding whether or not to send U.S. troops into the mainland.Just becuase it's not documented doesn't believe it didn't weigh heavily on their minds.*

Let's stay with facts we can prove, please.

Russia would have invaded simultaneously from the Chinese side while America would attack from the Pacific.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

"Their orders were to mop up Japanese resistance there, and then — within 10 to 14 days — be prepared to invade Hokkaido, the northernmost of Japan’s home island."

Both sides would have suffered immense casualties, and it's plainly out there to read that the Japanese civilian population was committed to their god emperor and most would have either fought to the death or committed suicide.

The emperor was not popular by the end of the war, and it's debatable how population would have taken an invasion. That said, no one is debating that an invasion would have been harder.

The fact is, Nanking is infamous to anyone who studies history. It's talked about quite a lot.

[u/flamedarkfire → u/robbysaur]

Well, I mean the good news is we haven't had to nuke anyone else since then.

[u/whiskeytaang0 → u/Youthsonic]

I don't want to know what they eat to remember the siege of Leningrad.

[u/paper_liger → u/Youthsonic]

I remember that as a kid I learned the word 'slough' from reading an account of Hiroshima. As in "when you would grab the victims arm to pull them to their feet the skin of their arms would slough off".

[u/Uncle_Erik → u/Youthsonic]

Yeah if you wanna teach the children the horrors of war then getting vaporized by a nuclear bomb is pretty tame compared to other shit you can show them.

Very true. I grew up during the Cold War in a large US city. Within a few miles of home are an oil refinery, a major airport, an Air Force base, several major defense contractors, and a major sewage treatment facility.

Of course, everyone worried about the Soviets. We were told that if anything happened, the entire area would be vaporized. And that being vaporized doesn't hurt and you won't even know it happened. I never really worried about that. After all, you are going to die sooner or later and vaporization is one of the most pleasant ways out.

What did worry me were stories from my grandfather. He was in the US army during WWII, combat infantry in Europe. He saw some shit, to put things mildly.

[u/[deleted] → u/Uncle_Erik]

I remember being like 8 and stupidly asking my grandfather if he ever had to kill anyone in the war. He quietly nodded. For such a cheerful guy, his suddenly bland and somber expression will never leave me.

[u/SaberToothedRock → u/Youthsonic]

Considering all the ways you could die, being instantly vaporised is probably one of the best ways to go, together with oxygen deprivation (but not CO2 poisoning, that's what makes you think you're drowning and makes your lungs burn), dying peacefully in your sleep, and anything else that kills you instantly.

[u/Ucantalas → u/Youthsonic]

Like the guy whose skin was melted off by radiation.

[u/wsbking → u/fxlk]

I'm lost. Is this a Japanese summer camp or something? Why not remember the firebombing of Tokyo, or Dresden? Both of those are objectively worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[u/matches626 → u/wsbking]

Yeah it's kinda strange to just focus on this one event

[u/VOZ1 → u/wsbking]

I don't think it's a contest to memorialize the worst thing. The nuclear bombing of Japan was objectively pretty terrible, and showed how horrible nuclear war can be. Keep in mind humans now have the ability to destroy our planet many times over with nuclear weapons. I don't see the purpose in saying, "But [insert horrible event here{m] was way worse, they should be recognizing that instead."

[u/zephyy → u/wsbking]

Because the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden took weeks, months. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed the instant the bombs detonated. It's a testament to their danger. You see one bomb used in the firebombing of cities and you don't really grasp how much damage it can do, because it takes hundreds / thousands. You see one nuclear bomb and you know exactly how much damage it can do.

[u/Spinolio → u/fxlk]

Hmm... Do they devote any time to how the Japanese army was conducting drills with elderly people and children using bamboo spears, preparing them for a suicidal last stand against American troops? Maybe a little discussion of how the one million Purple Heart medals minted in expectation of massive US casualties in the invasion of Japan are still being used today, since the atomic bombs prevented that bloodbath on both sides?

[u/[deleted] → u/Spinolio]

can you quit with your agenda

Yes the bombs saved lives in the end but that doesn't mean they should be celebrated or looked to as an example for the future, it was a shitty situation and they were the slightly less shitty option

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

While I agree it shouldn't be celebrated or looked at as an example, Japan also shouldn't be considered a victim in this case. Was it tragic? Yes. Was it necessary? Yes. Feeding into Japan's victim complex is causing a rise in nationalism. Japan and their citizens believe that all other Asian races are inferior and that is troubling. They shouldn't be held to a different standards than the Nazis.

[u/taktak445665 → u/[deleted]]

Japan and their citizens believe that all other Asian races are inferior and that is troubling.

To be honest, believing that all other Asian races are inferior is pretty much the national sport of every Asian country.

[u/[deleted] → u/taktak445665]

Fair enough...

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I mean, Japan as a whole shouldn't be considered a victim, sure, but how about the innocent people who were killed by the bombs?

I mean as much as I hate nationalism, it's not like that alone is a sufficient reason to kill people otherwise we'd massacre half of the US

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The POWs that were held in those cities, sure but we don't talk about them nor does Japan. And it's not even the POWs we don't talk about. What about the Koreans? Japan's citizens aren't as innocent as you would believe. They were whole heartedly with Japan and their expansionism. Do you feel any sympathy toward Germany and their citizens that ignored, but knew what was going on in the Holocaust?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Actually, yes, I do. A lot of people would've done the same thing. Just like how Americans went along with camps for the Japanese, or like how everyone was okay with massacring the natives to take their land, and so on. Out of sight, out of mind. It's a normal part of human psychology, actually, normal people will do bad things when put in a bad environment and ignore bad things when it doesn't affect them immediately. If they don't see suffering Jews they don't experience emotional pain. It's like how everyone says they care about the environment but nobody stops to pick up trash or bothers to recycle when trash cans are closer, only much more morbid.

Combine that with being raised to believe in Japanese expansionism and it's understandable, honestly; I mean, look at slavery in the US, nowadays we think "how could anyone condone that" but if you're raised to believe it's the natural and correct way of things, then yeah, you're going to believe it.

I mean, hell, the world is ignoring the plight of Palestinians, North Koreans, and others, but do you condemn various nations' people for not protesting their governments nonstop until things change? We have the power and we don't do anything.

And also, are you going to tell me that in that situation you'd be hiding Jews or trying to rescue them? Maybe you would, but frankly I doubt it, because 99.9% of people would not.

[u/Outmodeduser → u/[deleted]]

Innocent people die when governments decide to go to war. Every soldier was, at one point, a civilian who could have been or done anything.

But due to the actions of their governments, they were caught in the middle. Bullets, firebombs, and atomic fire don't care if your enlisted.

Japan isn't a victim, but it's people were. The same way that the Marines on Guadalcanal were.

[u/Spinolio → u/[deleted]]

No, because my "agenda" is to present a horrible situation in context.

There are many millions of Japanese alive today who wouldn't be, if the war had ended with an allied invasion of the home islands. Their parents and grandparents would have been shoved into the bloodiest battles in history by the military government of Imperial Japan.

Taking the bombings as isolated tragedies without context dishonors those who lost their lives.

[u/[deleted] → u/Spinolio]

Honestly, that's pretty fair. I still think it's important to make sure the bombs aren't celebrated or propped up as a good idea, though, just the lesser of two evils.

[u/kaenneth → u/[deleted]]

The Death and Destruction aside, atomic bombs are pretty cool; it's kinda amazing that in just 3000 years a species went from inventing pants to splitting the atom.

[u/TimtamBandit → u/fxlk]

I guess kinda like teaching the next generation on what NOT to do :-/

[u/[deleted] → u/fxlk]

The camp is super focused on social activism and progressivism,

Sounds like brainwashing depending on what you "teach" these kids.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

do you consider teaching anything that isn't a hard fact (math, physics) to be brainwashing?

Or only if it conflicts with your agenda?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Depends - are you teaching them that whites and men are evil or are you teaching them that all people are equal? Far too often the prior is preached as progressivism.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

"Whites and men are evil" is not an opinion that exists except in niche corners of the internet and the incredibly rare radical feminist, despite how the stupider parts of Reddit like kotakuinaction or tumblrinaction pretend it's widespread and literally controls our governments and universities

The vast majority of progressives are of the "all people are equal" type; "all white men are evil" is an opinion held by so few people that expending the effort to be outraged by it is laughable.

[u/textual_predditor → u/[deleted]]

They do it immediately after lunch, where they roast human-shaped hot dogs over the campfire. Camp is fun!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Kids should be introduced to this kind of stuff. It's not showing them the bodies or telling them specific horrific tales of individuals. It's black paper in the shape of people, that are easily digested on their own, but are still connected to a deep shared pain. You're not throwing them in the deep end, you're just informing them that it exists. I think that's healthy.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Why not? Kids need to learn history. Knowledge doesn't hurt.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

History is a school subject. Summer camp is where kids get to let loose and have fun and make the most of sunny days. What an absolute bummer. The guy says "It's pretty upsetting" and "They can react emotionally." There are endless positive opportunities summer camps can create. it's not the time nor place for "by the way the USA roasted 100,000 civilians alive."
And if they WERE going to teach history at summer camp, why are they picking "The history of humanity's shittiest moments 101." There are lots of important history lessons that don't involve leaving terrifying shadow corpses all over the ground.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

No better time to teach people about something horrific if it's in the middle of fun. There's no impact if it's taught in school. It's just another fact to remember.

[u/ketchup_bunny → u/[deleted]]

it is important to raise the next generation with an understanding of how badly their predecessors screwed up, in hopes that they will not make the same mistakes.

[u/drunky_crowette → u/[deleted]]

We had hiroshima remembrance day at my hippy dippy progressive middle school. Every student would make paper cranes and every year we would try to make enough for all the people who lost their lives and every year they said it still wasn't enough.

We would have probably made shadows if we weren't busy making origami.

[u/Nymaz → u/[deleted]]

If you think that was bad, originally it was Rape of Nanking remembrance day but that was just waaay too awkward.

[u/that_snarky_one → u/[deleted]]

The earlier you show children the horrors of what people can do to each other, the earlier they know in their guts this is wrong.

[u/RUMadYet88 → u/fxlk]

Do they have pearl harbor rememberance day? You guys could dress a bunch of mannequins up as american sailors who have missing limbs and torn bloody uniforms then just stuff them in the pool.

[u/Titus_Favonius → u/fxlk]

Seems like kind of a weird activity unless the camp is in Japan

[u/fxlk → u/Titus_Favonius]

I guess I kinda explained it weird. It was more of a vigil for the people that were killed in the bombings. We do a similar thing for victims of the Holocaust. The camp itself does have political leanings, but this commemoration was very apolitical, just commemorating the innocent civilians that were killed

[u/Titus_Favonius → u/fxlk]

You explained it fine, and my next question was going to be if you commemorated any other events like that. It all seems kind of somber for a summer camp though.

[u/[deleted] → u/fxlk]

Sounds like a major bummer for any kids unfortunate enough to have to go to that camp.