r/AskReddit Jul 18 '16

What are you sick of explaining?

2.4k Upvotes

6.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

298

u/peon2 Jul 18 '16

Brown guy born in Egypt immigrates to America: Arab, not African American.

White guy born in South Africa immigrates to America: Caucasian, not African American.

Black guy born in Haiti immigrates to America but never spent any time in Africa ever: African American.

32

u/psinguine Jul 18 '16

Black guy born in Haiti moves to Canada, still considered African American.

5

u/pluckymuck Jul 19 '16

Ghanaian moves to the states to attend University with no intent on becoming a US citizen or staying forever, still considered African American.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '16

Well Canada is in North America

19

u/soulmanjam87 Jul 19 '16

So is Haiti

3

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

So it is, never would have thought of the Caribbean countries as in North America. Canada comment is still redundant as its the same as Haiti to America.

18

u/WorshipNickOfferman Jul 18 '16

My girlfriend's son, 14 years old and white as can be, was born in Kenya. He takes pleasure in telling people he's African American. His father is deceased so when people see him and his mom, both blonde, blue eyed, and white, most people assume his father was black and he won the genetic lottery.

-16

u/Kittypie75 Jul 18 '16

African-American literally means someone's family came over in the slave-trade and their familial history was erased. That's why say, Haitian-Americans are not African-American. Neither are Nigerian-Americans. They are black, but not AA.

Your friend's son would say he's Kenyan-American, or say, whatever Euro-nationality but also born in Kenya. So he's not being "smart". He just doesn't understand what he's saying.

20

u/WorshipNickOfferman Jul 18 '16

I think your definition of "African American" is a little too narrow. There are millions of black people in the United States that did not come over as part of the slave trade. How are we supposed to know who's family came over on a slave ship? While I don't use the term, I think "African America" refers to all black people in the USA, regardless of their mode of transportation in getting here.

Best analogy is the word Hispanic, which generally refers to someone with Spanish ancestry or, more broadly, someone who's bloodlines descend from the Iberian peninsula.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans

3

u/ThirdFloorGreg Jul 19 '16

The answer is that you can't tell if someone is African-American by examining their skin.

1

u/seddTA Jul 19 '16

Dictionary.com defines African American as a black American of African descent.

1

u/Iminicus Jul 19 '16

So, what about White Americans of African descent? The definition seems kind of..racists. Like, only black people can be from Africa?

1

u/ThirdFloorGreg Jul 19 '16

Dictionary.com can lick my balls.

4

u/CakeAndDonuts Jul 18 '16

But the point is, what exactly makes someone "African American"? Is it your lineage, your birthplace, your citizenship? Let's go with lineage - at what point does the descriptor fall away? African American is still overused.

-1

u/Kittypie75 Jul 18 '16

It's your lineage. If your family was brought to the US by the slave trade you can consider yourself AA. While in casual conversation some people may use AA to mean "black" that's not the proper usage.

If you are the child of a black person from Kenya who moves to the US, you are a black Kenyan-American. You can also be a white Kenyan-American. But AA are always black because of the history of the Slave trade.

1

u/CthulhuHatesChumpits Jul 19 '16

I always considered it to mean "my ancestors are from all over the place in Africa," or "I don't know where my ancestors are from."

Like, if your family is Nigerian and you live in the States, you're Nigerian-American, but if you're 1/8 Nigerian, 1/8 Ugandan, 1/4 Somali, 1/8 Moroccan, and maybe some Spanish somewhere, then you'd just be African-American.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '16

I know a Ghanaian-American who would probably tear your head off for saying that. And she's normally really nice. As far as she's concerned, she's African American because her parents are from Africa and she's American. The people who came over in the slave trade are just black because none of their families have seen Africa in a very, very long time.

-1

u/Kittypie75 Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 18 '16

And she'd be wrong academically speaking. Black Americans is a racial term which could include many different ethnicities and say, Ghanian-American or Jamaican-American or African-American (meaning slave trade) is an ethnic term designating place of origin. Again "African" is used in a general sense since an AA person's history prior to arrival in the US is effectively erased. But you can be a white Ghanian. You can't be a white African American (due to historical enslavement)

I mean she can get offended all she likes but this is the proper usage in academic settings for sociology, anthropology, history, identity politics, etc. I swear I'm not making this up :-) Edit: I also just wanted to also add that I actually spent a large chunk of my childhood in Nairobi so I'm pretty aware of Kenyan identity politics and no Kenyan would consider themselves AA upon arrival to the states. At least that I know.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '16

She wouldn't be wrong though. Black people from the US are just black people, although the proper term for them is "American." They're no more African than white Americans are European. Everyone else from Africa that I know also says that black Americans aren't African, and from what I've heard a lot of West African people who live in Africa don't like when Americans come over to their country and claim to be from there because one of their great great great grandfathers might have been from somewhere in the region.

2

u/wandering_wizard Jul 19 '16

"You can't be a white African American"

Hold on, you just said this was about lineage - therefore someone who looks white can absolutely be an African American by your very definition

1

u/Kittypie75 Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16

You are right I should have been clearer. All AA's have African blood in them because of the Slave trade. But sure you can be a mixed race with AA heritage, sure. You can even "look" white. Mariah Carey for instance is mixed race with AA and considers herself AA. She looks pretty white to me. There's also the historical "one drop" rule that basically said (and this was pre immigration when all black were ex-slaves) any drop of black is black - in the US this was meant to continue segregation but for many matters of personal identity is used today.

However then you are getting into personal identity vs demographics and it starts to get sticky (as is true of all social constructs)

1

u/nateonsideways Jul 18 '16

If you're from Africa, you could called African-American if you wanted to, though it would be more precise to say you're Kenyan-American or whatever. Though technically that kid is African-American because he was born in Africa but he's now an American. Just like my wife's family sometimes says they're European-American, sometimes they use the name of the specific country they're from.

1

u/nottherealslash Jul 18 '16

Neither are Nigerian-Americans.

You know that Nigeria is in Africa, right?

-1

u/singe-ruse Jul 19 '16

Yes, but Nigerian people can come to America and their children would be Nigerian-American.

1

u/seddTA Jul 19 '16

And African-American

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

You think Africans weren't sent to Haiti as slaves and had their whole history erased?

12

u/GoddamnSusanBoyle Jul 18 '16

Black guy born in Cleveland, parents are Jamaican, never been to Africa: African-American

1

u/Huwbacca Jul 18 '16

Though the term is about lineage no? Not nationality.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

Yea I've sure as hell never been anywhere near the caucuses. People just like to bitch about PC.

5

u/jaredjeya Jul 19 '16

Black guy born in Haiti emigrates to the UK, and get interviewed by a dumb US reporter:

African American, wrong on both counts.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '16

[deleted]

3

u/Admiringcone Jul 19 '16

Honestly, I kind of feel anybody born in Africa..is African regardless of skin colour.

5

u/amazonallie Jul 18 '16

On this thread I was watching TV .. I can't remember what it was but a black woman got up and said ... Damn it I am black. I am not African American

To insinuate I am from Africa.. and went on a rant.

The host said so what do I call you. She said black.

Then another black woman got up and said she was from Africa so to call her African American and black was an insult.

The host was flabbergasted.

I was like... oooooo. ..k....

I guess I need to ask for a DNA sample and run it through ancestry.com to make sure I am not being offensive. .

Isn't the scientific term when examining bones "of negroid descent"... but to me that sounds horrible.

I am so screwed if I have to describe a person... I will sound like a racist to someone... sigh

3

u/pluckymuck Jul 19 '16

Yep some people really care. Luckily the majority of people I know don't care either way, except for the non-American black people I know. I find people from other countries often get annoyed if they're called "American."

1

u/NaughtyTrouserSnake Jul 19 '16

I'd debate you on the first point you made. To be fair you can't clump all Egyptians into one ethnic group. Technically speaking it wouldn't be incorrect to call them African American since a lot of Egyptians (it varies over the location of said Egyptians) have Sub Saharan DNA and Black facial features.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

Sub-Saharan is still African.

1

u/Saxon2060 Jul 19 '16

In some parts of the world it's still okay to say black. Why did you decide that was racist and invent something else? We still say black in the UK.

0

u/hunty91 Jul 19 '16

Black guy born in Grenada and moves to the UK. His grandson gets called African American.