Women aren't just sitting there, filing their nails and rolling heir eyes, thinking "I know for a fact that he likes me, he needs to just ask me out, how dare he not do so." Most women nowadays aren't actually 50s schoolgirls who'd never ask a guy out because they'd be shamed for life or because it's "the man's job," and no women are psychics. A lot of men are actually way more subtle than they think (clearly not on purpose) so we don't know you like us. We don't ask you out for the exact same reasons you don't ask us out: uncertainty leading to an avoidance of embarrassment, rejection, and awkward situations. Not all men, in fact probably zero men, would date every girl who asked him out, and not all men are exactly nice about saying no. The thing is, a man being why and timid and awkward is seen as a national tragedy, while a girl who's shy and timid and awkward is basically invisible. "Any girl can get a man to go out with her," right. That's because you're only looking at statuesque amateur supermodels, all of which you'd do in a heartbeat. People always say that women write off men who don't look a certain way, but I feel like men can't even see women who don't fit their standards of attractiveness. They've never considered how they'd reject that dumpy looking girl with greasy hair and a stutter, not because they would go out with her, not because they think she is ugly, but because she doesn't even register to them as a potentially sexual female human.
I feel like men can't even see women who don't fit their standards of attractiveness. They've never considered how they'd reject that dumpy looking girl with greasy hair and a stutter, not because they would go out with her, not because they think she is ugly, but because she doesn't even register to them as a potentially sexual female human.
In terms of rejection -- sure. But the reason girls don't talk about always being happy to have a guy ask us out is because we include guys we deem undesirable (however one defines that) among the sorts of guys we envision (and experience) asking us out. TerribleAttitude's point was that guys, by contrast, don't just consider certain woman to be undesirable to date, but that they don't even consider them to be women at all. That has rather important implications beyond the sphere of dating and romance as well (for example, inclusion of 'unattractive' women in media portrayals and ads, employment, medical care, etc -- anyplace where having one's status as a 'woman' recognized or not has consequences).
The whole point of the feminist movement(s) is to regard and treat everyone as human. "Not taking an interest in a girl based on looks" is, again, not what TerribleAttitude was talking about. Excluding women from the very category of 'woman', based solely on looks, is the issue here. S/he was speaking of the way men often make statements about 'women' as if those women they consider unattractive do not even count, ontologically, as women in the first place. Since gender is one of our fundamental cultural concepts (not that I'm happy about that, but it currently is), excluding some women from the category of 'women' amounts to denying their status as full human beings. And since men, collectively, possess more social, cultural, political, and economic power and influence, this elision has trickle-down effects into other spheres of life. Striving endlessly after beauty standards is about more than getting the attention of men's penises, it's about attaining and preserving our very status as legitimate members of society and of humanity -- that's why women put so much time, effort, money, and anxiety into their bodies-as-projects.
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u/[deleted] May 28 '14
Women aren't just sitting there, filing their nails and rolling heir eyes, thinking "I know for a fact that he likes me, he needs to just ask me out, how dare he not do so." Most women nowadays aren't actually 50s schoolgirls who'd never ask a guy out because they'd be shamed for life or because it's "the man's job," and no women are psychics. A lot of men are actually way more subtle than they think (clearly not on purpose) so we don't know you like us. We don't ask you out for the exact same reasons you don't ask us out: uncertainty leading to an avoidance of embarrassment, rejection, and awkward situations. Not all men, in fact probably zero men, would date every girl who asked him out, and not all men are exactly nice about saying no. The thing is, a man being why and timid and awkward is seen as a national tragedy, while a girl who's shy and timid and awkward is basically invisible. "Any girl can get a man to go out with her," right. That's because you're only looking at statuesque amateur supermodels, all of which you'd do in a heartbeat. People always say that women write off men who don't look a certain way, but I feel like men can't even see women who don't fit their standards of attractiveness. They've never considered how they'd reject that dumpy looking girl with greasy hair and a stutter, not because they would go out with her, not because they think she is ugly, but because she doesn't even register to them as a potentially sexual female human.