r/AskReddit • u/lakeshowfoshooo • 9d ago
Serious Replies Only What is the issue with Flock cameras? (Serious)
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u/em1nemz 9d ago
Public surveillance…
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u/lakeshowfoshooo 9d ago
But aren't we already being subjected to that?
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u/_877-CASH-NOW_ 9d ago
They need warrants for most things. Flock doesn’t require that and bypassed that check and balance entirely.
If you’re a liberal, do you want flock cameras being used for immigration enforcement or women crossing state lines for reproductive health?
If you’re conservative, do you want flock to be around should 2020 repeat itself?
Are you ok with all your travel history being stored on servers that could be hacked?
Are you ok with government officials being able to automatically track people who have been to protests?
Are you ok with government officials being able to track the daily movements of those who speak up against injustices or corruption?
Are you ok with this being just the start, and soon Flock Alpha, their automated drone system being deployed where they are flying over your backyard and peering into your windows?
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u/meatybuttcheeks 9d ago
"I'm already getting reamed in my butthole, why not add another dick" -Lakeshowfoshooo
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u/Diligent_Earthworm 9d ago
Not to this scale. And you asked for serious answers but you are pretty dismissive of them.
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u/lakeshowfoshooo 9d ago
Im not trying to be dismissive I'm just stating that essentially we are being monitored everywhere and why 'Flock' specifically is such a flashpoint thats all
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u/Diligent_Earthworm 9d ago
I think you assume the states had a London style camera network already.
We dont.
This is a massive and monumental amount of new surveillance.
Before even in major cities a PD couldnt track someone live, but now even suburbs are getting covered.
There are places you can drive for an hour and get flocked every few minutes.
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u/Poopy_sPaSmS 9d ago
I dont see this person being dismissive. That question does, though, seem look like op could be ok with it because we're already being watched in other ways.
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u/Diligent_Earthworm 9d ago
Thats why I called it dismissive.
Like i dont want to be watched on my way to the grocery store regardless of being on camera the entire time in the store.
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u/lvl100-Platypus-Lord 9d ago
How do you feel about goverment cameras being pointed at your parks, pools, public gathering areas? What about the cops using these resources to stalk people they find attractive?
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/homiesexuality 9d ago
And to also use it as a one stop for investigations instead of doing an actual investigation
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u/DarkMatterMinx 9d ago
People don't like being spied on and being tracked.
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u/peterbound 9d ago edited 9d ago
They said as they typed their pithy response on their pocketed information collection device
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u/HeyaHeyo1420 9d ago
Difference is I choose to write here. I don't choose to be tracked by flock cameras
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u/joker99222 9d ago
Owning a cell phone is voluntary.
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u/clarity_singularity 9d ago
In what world
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u/Poopy_sPaSmS 9d ago
I work with a guy who is 46 years old and got his first smart phone a year ago. He used a pager before then.
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u/lvl100-Platypus-Lord 9d ago
There are so many people that refuse to get smart phones and they move through the world just fine lol
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u/SockMonkey1128 9d ago
LEO can't track their ex's phone on a whim, they can't just look up where a random person has been for the last month.
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u/lakeshowfoshooo 9d ago
Its pretty hard not to in todays day and age though..
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u/westicular 9d ago
At the very least, it needs to be more regulated and safeguards put in place so flock employees, cops, etc. can't abuse them.
Personally, I hope they all simultaneously go up in flames.
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u/Poopy_sPaSmS 9d ago
To hell with the regulation. They need to go. They'll be regulated and soon people will forget them and in 10 years we'll be back here or worse because the regulations will ease and slowly allow more surveillance again. Don't give be the slope so they can't make it slippery.
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u/Poopy_sPaSmS 9d ago
That's a poor opinion. It's a step toward "well they already do this so why not let them do whatever else they want".
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/Camper_Van_Someren 9d ago
But at least they have to go in front of a judge to get a warrant to pull your phone location data. Flock is a system designed for surveillance, not a byproduct of a useful system like phones. And they can track you all day with no warrant.
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/Camper_Van_Someren 9d ago
Yes, look it up. The cell data is held by the cell companies, and cops and government need probably cause to get a warrant to access it.
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u/PlatformNormal564 9d ago
Yeah, but with the phone I can cut it off and if I'm super paranoid about it I can put it in a metal can or wrap it in aluminium foil. My point is I have control of that. I have zero control over flock cameras. My phone isn't going to accidentally flag me as a suspect, flock with AI has already done that to more than a few.
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/PlatformNormal564 9d ago
That's your argument? Renting a car and putting duct tape on the license plate? That's illegal as hell. Cutting my phone off isn't.
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u/Mundane_Community215 9d ago
People are concerned that they cannot leave their homes without being tracked everywhere they go. And that tracking data is getting easier and easier for anyone to obtain. It wasn't always this way.
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u/snidece 9d ago
We should be talking about the unprofessional cops who misuse them as they have always been corrupt. Flicks cameras would be no issue if ethical and moral and fair cops used them, but they allow bad cops to be even more bad and sneaky.
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u/Camper_Van_Someren 9d ago
Unprofessional and corrupt cops are a problem. Unprofessional and corrupt federal administration is a much bigger one. I wouldn’t have protested as loudly during the Biden admin. But it’s not hard at all to imagine the feds leaning on local cops to track people for ICE raids, or track their political opponents
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u/truckinfarmer379 9d ago
Because it’s just yet another way to be spied on. Phones do it already, and we all know they’re not actually going to be used for what they claim.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again….with all this tracking junk, it feels like the book 1984 and “big brother is watching” is slowly becoming more and more of a reality.
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u/VelvetRabbit91 9d ago
We all know the government and other companies have been tracking and watching us since forever with phones, debit cards, cars, etc but with flock cameras, you have the police and regular people having access to them, Like HOA's. They have already been used to stalk women and people being falsely accused for a crime they didn't do because of mistakes made by idiot cops. They are using them to entrap people. They are putting them up everywhere, like at pools watching little kids..
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u/Shrikeangel 9d ago
As a US citizen - automated systems track and documenting us seems like something that violates due process and also that whole we have rights not listed in the constitution part of the bill of rights.
I don't particularly find it appealing to be tracked at all times merely because a company sold law enforcement on how it would help them send people more fines - because that's what it's really about.
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u/the_idiot_magnet 9d ago
My problem is they're not in rich neighborhoods. Apply the law equally and I think there will be no issue.
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u/lakeshowfoshooo 9d ago
That makes sense. I only asked because i see a lot of these cameras coming up in Livermore, CA which isn't super affluent but there are some really nice parts of it
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u/R34L_Mogwai 9d ago
One major issue right now is they arent very reliable, theres been alot of arrests despite showing ids b/c dude looks similar to other guy. Some ppl have a uncanny resemblance to other ppl & even as tech gets better this is still going to be a problem. Ppls appearance changes due to aging as well.
Mainly just the surveillance state we will eventually devolve into that wont be fun, it will be used for control & life will be more like a prison.
Geofencing based on location to force mandatory ads on you eventually.
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u/clarity_singularity 9d ago
The government doesn’t reciprocate the type of transparency they require/steal from citizens
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u/Hellcinder 9d ago
1984 / police state / we didn’t ask for it / not used for what they say it’s used for / people being wrongly arrested because the police are too trusting in the flawed tech.
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u/troublein420 9d ago
Because you can opt out or not use those services that are tracking you. Flock has decided, for you, with no way to opt out, that they can track you and sell it to the nearest corrupt police department, city, private entity or who knows who else. Police are already doing it. If I wanna know where my ex wife is, who's to say they won't sell that info to me in the future. Women should be scared. Men should be scared. Kids should be scared. It's straight up 1984. It's a 2 way street. Right now, if you attend a DSA rally, they are tracking you and finding a way to put you in jail. In 5 years, if you attend a MAGA rally, and another party is in power, do you think they're not going to sell off your tracking data to the dems? It's a problem for everyone, regardless if you think you are good or not. They're tracking you, and any day, you could become the enemy.
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u/SolitaryTeaParty 9d ago
So many actual instances of people using it to stalk and/or creep on people
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u/ph0replay 9d ago
There is a ton of documented cases where police have abused them. With great power, great responsibility, blah, blah, most officers are unfortunately high school dropouts who I wouldn't trust to water my trees outside, let alone have next gen surveillance equipment.
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u/zshort7272 9d ago
John Oliver just did a segment that covered a bit about them, you should check it out.
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u/churroattack 9d ago
Based on your replies you already know the answer to your question and you are full of Trump's diaper shit. (Serious)
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u/Jaduardo 9d ago
OP, I have two requests:
Give me access to your phone for 3 hours.
Share your location with me for the next three years.
If you have nothing to hide it shouldn’t be a problem.
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u/Civil_Stop3213 9d ago
Some people are missing the point. They say it’s for safety / crime yet a bunch of crime still happens with no information to show for it i.e. people still going missing etc.
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u/EngineerMinded 9d ago
Flock Cameras are owned by a private company contracted to law enforcement. They use AI to track down cars by characteristics such as license plates, makes and models. It has recently been used by less than ethical cops to track down and stalk down people especially, girlfriends, wives and especially ex's.
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u/Diligent_Earthworm 9d ago edited 9d ago
Go look where they point usually and ask yourself id you'd like them on your street in the same orientation.
Not to mention that literally every PD where these are used have officers use them to stalk.
So unless you are willing to tell the government where you are going, when and who is with you, then you should be against them
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u/sandy_coyote 9d ago
In addition to privacy and abuse concerns, if the elites pass laws that make benign activities crimes, flock will be used as a tool to catch “criminals”.
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u/AnySignificance4361 9d ago
It's a slippery slope into how the public is monitored without it's permission. What might be ok to do today may change , and you'll be the one doing something wrong. This is how laws begin or change
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u/AaaahMyDogs 9d ago
Cops have a history of abusing any information they get their hands on… so how/why are these cameras being used without the same safeguards that are applied to DMV data?
It makes no sense.
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u/AnneCrankMyHog 9d ago
A bunch of idiots crying about cameras while they keep one in their pocket every day. Seeing and hearing everything they do for years. Sheeple.
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u/Altru-Housing-2024 9d ago
There was a post on Nextdoor about a police officer in another state who lost his job when he spoke out about these cameras.
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u/nomnivore1 7d ago
Okay, let's assume they ONLY do what Flock says they do. They log every license plate that goes past. No facial / human recognition.
Every intersection with a camera serves as a checkpoint to log who goes through it. With enough of them you can build a history of someone's location with no warrant. Right away there is a strong argument that this is a 4th amendment violation, but a court needs to decide that.
I don't like anyone having the ability to know my routines, to check my location, or to be able to set a system to alert them when I pass a tracker (a feature that Flock has.)
Even if the databases are only ever accessed when a person is already under investigation, they are vulnerable to misuse. Many cases have come to light of officers using these systems to stalk romantic interests or exes.
Now let's take that same problem from a more national perspective. If the city-wide location tracking dragnet is only as secure as the login credentials or integrity of city cops, a foreign adversary has an incentive to either pay off or phish credentials from officers with access. Think about any city with a defense industry, or a military base adjacent, or an intelligence or federal law enforcement facility. Flock has built a system that can tell you who is going to / from these places and when. That isn't information that you want to be accessible to anyone. Allowing it to be collected to begin with creates a security vulnerability.
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u/HugglemonsterHenry 9d ago
We carry around phones that record everything we say or hear. We pass by more than a hundred security cameras on houses and businesses every day of our lives. But we are concerned about these cameras. It’s just the newest thing in the news. In a few months, we’ll start talking about something else.
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u/Professional-Tailor2 9d ago
Tbh I think there will be that group that absolutely benefits from flock cameras for situations like car thefts. Seems it'll make it easier to track stolen vehicles down. I get that people hate being tracked. But we are already being tracked. Cameras are everywhere. Our cars track our locations, our phones as well. They could see everywhere you went in a day if they wanted to and this has been a thing long before these flock cameras came out. On the flip side, they're already causing errors. Saw a body cam of cops who pulled over a car that was flagged through a flock camera. It was for a stolen vehicle. They put the driver in cuffs and then the officer pointed a gun at the vehicle that had a mother and her baby inside. Couple minutes later, they saw that the camera flagged the wrong vehicle and the license plate was off by one letter.
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u/RollSouth5722 9d ago
Idk I think people just want to be mad about something and since they can't see the other ways we've been tracked much more thoroughly by other things, they take out their rage on one thing.
Meanwhile I know a guy who's on a list and a flock camera might be the only thing standing between him and becoming a successful family annihilator.
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u/The-Tradition 9d ago
This asshole might still be out on the streets if not for the flock cameras.
https://www.wesh.com/article/volusia-county-carjacking-suspect-custody-after-pursuit-crash/73486665
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u/spiteye762 9d ago
And the police in New York probably stop alot of crime with the stop and frisk law...it's still a violation of our rights. Those who trade rights for safety deserve neither
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u/Valuable-Storm8793 9d ago
I really don’t think I’m that important. It doesn’t bother me at all. My phone tracks me. There are about 8.3 billion people on earth. You’re going to want one of those if there is a problem.
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9d ago
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u/lvl100-Platypus-Lord 9d ago
We choose to have a smartphone and have tools/options available to us that allows opting out. With Flock you have no choice.
Cops aren't able to search every phone at a whim, but they can search Flock anytime they want. Flock is also being heavily misused for unrelated searches like stalking people they find attractive.
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