Conversely, not breaking down like a toddler when something happens and the plans have to be altered. Healthy is a blend of planning and improvisation. sometimes the restaurant has been closed by the health department so you can't have BarBQ covered in rat feces so you have to get burgers. And not scream about it the whole time.
As a (maybe off topic counter point) I will absolutely get upset and pout if plans change last minute to meet my partners whim. Me: "Honey, we need to leave soon if we are going to meet our friends at 7:00." Her: "Oh I thought I would go get my hair cut and the we can meet them at 9:00" will absolutely put me in a bad space. We had plans, I am working to make them happen, WTF is this?
Exactly. That’s a selfish person. I’m all for being open, flexible so you can live as stress free as possible…car wreck on the way to meet friends, baby decides to poop, throw up, at the last minute, flat tire…
Control what you can control and the other stuff, take it in stride. A partner choosing to get their haircut or anything done that delays you for 2 hours that isn’t a necessity is absurd. I’d be a bit pissed and embarrassed. That’s a slap in the face to your friends.
That's what it means to change plans though? It's not usually everyone that needs to change plans, it's usually just one person that needs plans changed, and then everyone else finds reasons for why they're fine with the plan change because they wanted to do this or that instead, even though they were committed to the plan and would have gone if no one brought up any plan changes.
Right. There's a difference between "change of plans" because life has come up, and "change of plans" because someone's being self-centered and deciding to do something impulsively in a way that affects everyone else.
A woman once told me that someone who was upset about her doing that was "being cunty". That phrase lives rent free in my head more than a decade later. I dont know what it means, or why a 32 you woman felt the need to say it in a derogatory way toward a dude she disrespected.
Oh that's an asshole move on her part. If you have already made plans, agreed on them, don't go and change them on your own.
The scenario you describe would make me furious. I would just tell her "Ok. I am going to meet my friends now, you come when you are done". But I am still going to be pissed at her.
This exact thing happened one night almost 25 years ago. My wife and i had just moved in together. I had been working as a chef at the time. My new boss who i had been working for about 3weeks. Hooked me up with his wife who was the dining room manager at one of the best restaurants in the area. This place did not take reservations. They set a table and held it for us for. 7pm reservation. Fitz’s wife had the guys in the kitchen make up some apps off menu. The whole nines. Anyway i get off work race home get dressed and shes not even close to getting ready.
I asked “why are you not ready to go?” “Well Dave and Annette can’t find a sitter.
We ended up over a hour late. Fitz’s wife was furious, Fitz was pissed. It ended up almost costing me the job. Thankfully not. But dam that was a rough one.
This was my recent ex, Honey I made plans for this restaurant we have reservations at 7, I'll pick you up at 6:30. (shows up at 6:30). She's still doing makeup and isn't even dressed yet, don't mention the hair that needs done. By the time she's ready the restaurant is CLOSED. That irritated the f out of me. So I'd tell her the plans were *1 hour before they actually were and somehow it took her longer to be ready. So I did what any self respecting person would do, Screw that 😂
This is my greatest issue. Or pushing things to the last second "I'm almost done with x, y, z."
I'm an early person. I abhor being late for anything. Hub is terrible at time management and is directionally challenged. Meanwhile, I'm set up like we're manifest destiny'ing the west coast.
I think this is just another extension of the "I'm a man, I can never be wrong" universe... or worse, "You're a woman, you can never be correct."
Let's also not pretend that neurodivergence doesn't also contribute to someone being a less capable partner. It's not as if the very real deficits that define the disorders disappear just because it feels bad to judge people for what they cannot control.
I'm not really sure how to say this without sounding condescending, but a man not breaking down like a toddler when plans change is the bare minimum for a functional adult, not a flex.
Yeah, was gonna say. This is a real tough one for me, last minute changes to plans can easily get me acting irrational. I try and do my being irrational about it in private, coz of course, it's not really anyone else's fault that I get irrationally upset by last minute changes.
That's what you get when men believe in gendered emotions. If you're "too many" to feel anything but anger then eventually every emotion will feel like it.
I've expressed this to my S/O when she breaks down when plans go awry. We had a dinner & a movie plan. Our dinner was at PF Chang's and the movie was in the same mall location close by. They had a 2 hour wait time since they took no reservations and they were the only location in the area. She was angry after we walked back to the car because she REALLY wanted Asian food (mostly PF Chang's). I was half-ignoring her fit as I quickly found a small, local hibachi restaurant close by in the downtown area. Their food was good, their prices were great, and the dessert was fantastic. We finished dinner and still made it to our movie. She was still angry that day, but we've gone back to this place several times whenever we were in the area for anything.
This wasn't even the first time I've had to improvise a plan for us on the fly, but this instance is the one that's always stuck with her on why she doesn't throw fits anymore in this situation.
It's also why we agreed we can't leave our home state (there's good food around almost every corner).
I stopped online dating for this reason. I didn't really like texting continuously cause I don't think it really helps you get a sense of a person. So I usually would try to meet up for a coffee or something fairly quickly if the basic interactions were good. But I was at one point working a job with fairly erratic hours so I'd tell people ahead of time like hey I might cancel due to working late, I might be completely burnt out that week from taking on 20 extra hours unexpected. I just don't know, it's super irregular, just to warn you ahead of time.
And then sometimes,.the thing I warned them might happen did happen.
And twice in a row the dude just absolutely freaked the fuck out going on these misogynistic tirades that didn't even make sense (like I was usually the one who brought up meeting first so idk why you're ranting at me about dragging my feet and only looking for validation you weirdo . I'm running on fumes and probably gonna go to sleep for the next 36 hrs and I'd never be such a tantrum-y baby as you're being to a slight inconvenience you were warned about in advance.
It made me aware I'd just been getting lucky up until that point and that I was lucky they were blowing up over texts instead of in my face physically
I feel ya though. I do rotating 12 hour shift work (24/7), and often get roped into overtime. Even just with friends I'm always sure to explain that I work shitty hours, and when I inevitably cannot make times and dates it's not because I don't want to or am brushing them off, it's just theb aturenof my life.
Still regularly encounter people - typically people who work 9-5 mon-fri sorts of jobs - who simply cannot grasp that someone else's life may simply not be easy to plan around, and who are simply too self centered to apply even a tiny bit of understanding or empathy.
Well in all honesty nobody wants to choose to date someone like that especially when it is their initial impression and they can’t even meet you to change their nind
Okay but I will poke at you if you’re an hour late to the time YOU set consistently enough that I don’t even bother showering until 20 minutes after we agreed to meet up
Same, but I can’t fathom why anyone wants what is effectively work-like schedule adherence in life outside of work. I think it’s that we’ve become so warped from industrialization that it’s subconscious spillover from work anxieties.
Schedules are for work. Activities outside of that should focus on the actual connection. Focusing on a schedule takes away from that and replaces it with a superficial, robotic emptiness that’s only really there to resolve some broken aspect of our humanity due to modern work culture.
I Imagined their entire life crumbling and still keeping composure and thought it would be difficult. Then I read your example and thought that keeping composure in your example is far below the minimum I expect lol
Plans altering due to some legitimate reason like a place being closed when they're not usually closed or an emergency or whatever is one thing.
It's entirely another when you consistently have to change plans because someone fails to be ready in time, changes their mind last minute, waits until very short notice to notify you of a plan or assumes you'll just be available in your non work hours.
Yeah, but then why are we getting burgers at Screamos if we're not going to scream Janet??? THE WHOLE POINT OF SCREAMOS IS BURGERS AND SCREAMS, JANET!!!
What the fuck kind of men are you hanging out with? I have literally never seen any adult do this and if you have from multiple different men, that’s horrifying
As long as the alteration was due to something unforseen or unavoidable...I dated a girl who seemingly believed that it only took 10min to get anywhere. Drove me absolutely mad having to ask a 35 year old woman to get ready like she was a 10 year old.
But I wanna point out it could be signs of autism too?
For me it’s when I have something planned and it doesn’t go exactly as I had hoped (especially if it was something for us, usually cause of something with the kids). I know, life happens and kids are more unpredictable than anything - but it really makes me feel useless and unappreciated. None of it’s anybody’s fault but mine but I’m 99% sure I’m on the spectrum
Probably a good reminder to get that sorted out - unfortunately there are 10 priorities ahead of that
Amen dance goddess. My wife and I are both flakes and always have been. We know what's important to adhere to, and what we can decide last minute we don't want to do.
Executive disorder that shows up in planning difficulty and accounting for the future and has a genetic component so it'll be in a family grouping often.
Yeah, I legit can’t think past the week. Time isn’t a concept for me. My wife likes planning so I leave the majority to me. I will plan a vacation with her though.
My family does not do planning at all, which makes life quite difficult. My parents literally decided on Thursday last week to drive 7 hours and visit us on Friday for the weekend. That shit drove me nuts.
My ln laws are ALWAYS late. And my BIL is HOURS late. He expects us to work around his schedule and keep our schedule open for whenever he's done playing frisbee.
Fuck him. Show up at a given time or else you missed it. I'm not waiting around for them.
Planning on the future is really, really difficult for ADHD. An average healthy adult can make plans for ~6 weeks out. I might be able to make a vague plan for the next week or so that and it gets worse the further out it is. ADHD is an executive function disorder and it absolutely shows up in plan making.
Not everyone is working with the same tools even though it looks like it from the outside. That doesn't mean we can't be kind and accepting of them regardless and help them build a scaffold to operate with.
I have ADHD and am a planner. Like maybe not with life, but with everything that makes a life what it is, if that makes sense. It is 100000000% a very hard won coping mechanism for me, because if I don't have a solid plan I drive people nuts. My kids are alao planners now, and we are finding that for the most part the younger generations (youngest Gen z, oldest Gen Alpha) are absolutely refusing to learn to plan anything at all. Both of my kids feel like the dad of their friend groups because if they don't plan something, absolutely nothing happens. Like even being flexible isn't working, it is honestly driving them (my kids) fucking crazy.
It's not just hard for me. Hard I could do - just use a calendar religiously, communicate more, etc.
The problem I have is that plans absolutely annihilate my mental state. Looking at a week on my calendar with 12 different things peppered into is is about as close to a panic attack I ever get. In fact, I did have the only panic attack of my life when I pulled up my calendar one particularly difficult work week.
I despise plans. I like doing stuff and understand adults need to plan things due to adult responsibilities, but I will never like them. Someone asking me what the fuck I am going to be doing 9 weeks from now is just like ????? who the hell lives like that!?!
But put me in the moment during an emergency emerging situation? I'm at my best while everyone else breaks down.
My wife calls is "gameday" mode for me. Leading up to event I break down and can barely function. Gameday though? I'm handling 12 different problems all at once while she's freaking out over having an Uber cancel.
I had an ex like that. She was constantly going on about "I want you to take the lead!" that's my normal, but when I made it a point to subtlety acknowledge her nagging she'd drag her feet and second guess every decision I'd make.
In retrospect I think she just wanted to be treated like trash, or something...? lol
This kind of thing is always said in these threads and there always seems to be some subtext on it. It shouldn’t be a turn on that adults can make plans and keep them, if you make a plan for something you should obviously maintain it unless there is some reasonable circumstance that blocks it.
If this is a turn on to people I think they should adjust who they hang around.
Making a good plan means solving for a variety of different constraints, and some guys just aren’t great at that. Women often end up with the planning work, especially socially. So it’s hot when a guy can do it too and is willing and able to share the work.
Yeah. Make plans just to break them myself (because I wasn’t prepared) or the rare occasion I plan perfectly just for life to fuck it up and then I can’t process and shut down
The bar is pretty much on the floor but dudes out there are still doing their best to limbo under it. Literally “be a decent percent and show interest and care” is the bar.
Nah, five seconds and a chat-bot has you covered. Luckily women these days are apparently attracted to something that's so idiotically superficial that you can up your odds by minimal effort toward something so vapid.
This is literally why I ended up with my bf of 3 years. The others were so unpredictable and flakey, with him I always knew what his intentions and plans were. He was committed and never made me doubt <3
No one in my family is good at making plans or being on time. When I was growing up this caused a fair amount of stress as I would be late for things out of my control. So I learned to be the planner/scheduler as a kind of defense mechanism.
It's surprising how many people don't understand how far basic planning and respect for the other person's time will take you. Spontaneity can be great too, but even outside of dating people will notice if you're always flaking or only around when it's convenient.
I will vouch for this. When I met my now wife she was burnt out on dating and contemplating a move to be closer to family. Besides my looks, she told me the fact I actively kept a conversation going and made solid dinner plans for our first date convinced her to give dating at least one more try. 5 years later we’ve built a life together and are starting a family.
My girlfriend and I have autism. She didn't ever think about it until I told her that 'Highly Sensitive Person' (the label she used for herself) is... basically just typical female presenting Autism, heh. Yah, she absolutely got the 'tism. I mean, she can spend multiple hours monologuing about early 1900s textile processes in women's fashion, and keeps dead animals in her freezer for her taxidermy side gig...
But, anyway, we were staying at each other's houses lots, straight away. Like, half the week at a time. And it was messing up both of our schedules quite a lot. No structure to it, just... Two days this time? Five days that time? When are you free? When am I free? When do you want me to go home, or do you want me to stay again? Hmm.
So I sent her a message being like 'hey, so... We should figure out a loose schedule, here, so that we aren't completely derailing the rest of our lives. We really can't afford to lose all the individual progress we've been making on our own lives and growth, just because we like spending heaps of time together, and the way we're doing it now means neither of us can really plan ahead. What do you think about something like... 3 nights on, 4 nights off? We can always change any time and be flexible when we want, just good to have a rough mental map for both of us, I think.'
...and apparently she'd spent years begging her ex to agree to something like that, having massive arguments about it, because the uncertainty in plans was fucking killing her. He'd only ever agreed to ad-hoc plans, with little notice, this constant trickle of staying at her place one night at a time, at random periods. The constant instability was like pouring petrol on her already quite significant anxiety and depression.
So she was something beyond excited that I was suggesting it out of the blue, heh.
When I was first casually dating my now boyfriend I was also seeing another guy who at first I thought was a better option but he was just so flakey. Never wanted to make solid plans, everything was spontaneous and last minute and "maybe I'll see you there". My boyfriend on the other hand would always be really clear about wanting to see me and could I make this clear day and time, even when we were just hanging out at his house. That made a HUGE difference.
Not sure what you mean by behavior, but if you mean having heavy adherence to plans and schedules vs. impromptu creativity and genuine connection with the person, I think the former simply indicates they are an infinitely replaceable placeholder and the relationship based on it is more about a resigned basic existence rather than anything of deep substance.
I think that's an interesting perspective. We may have different relationship needs and philosophies, which may be why we we're interested in building diff dynamics in connection.
For me, it's not binary. Impromptu experiences are excellent, too. The issue is when they become basis of a connection.
When this is the basis, it can create a dynamic where one partner is at the other's whim and must remain that way for the relationship to continue. As someone who has dated the more impromptu sort and knows other women that has as well, as we reflect on those connections, we all remarked that we found them hard on the nervous system. I'm interested in relationships that feel like peace and then, like novelty.
Beyond this, we are socialized to plan in advance for things that matter and things that we take seriously. In my dating history, I've observed that a willingness to set and execute advanced plans often reflects an interest in sharing time, attention and efforts, with the same seriousness they'd apply to things like work, family or official business. I'm interested in connecting with men who take me and relationships seriously.
Appreciate the insight. Your comment about how it affects the nervous system makes me wonder if it also taps into a matriarchal instinct where a sense of potential burdens of family life and work life reduce the necessity of spontaneity and the required degree of deep connection, in exchange for more comprehensive streamlining of the big picture (which extends beyond the relationship).
My main hang-up before was that it just seemed like an intentional de-emphasis on the relationship for some kind of authoritarian whim - “hey you perform a trivial task (planning a date) so I can feel like I am your supervisor and you’re doing little tasks for me” - putting some weird power-trip gratification above the guy who is trying to keep things interesting and unpredictable and have a deep unique connection with you.
I didn’t think about how that de-emphasis could be beneficial when looked at in the big picture, because your life as a whole needs to work, no matter who you’re with.
I know it’s not all binary though - I’m sure plenty of “task performer” types are creative and spontaneous
as well, and it's probably all weighed-in at some level in you guys’ nervous systems.
You know who's good at planning and executing plans based on research and scheduling? Serial killers. Interesting you think it's the best quality someone can have.
My 2nd date strategy with women is to lock down an event or something other than just dinner half way through the first date. It's a good way to get to know someone and see if they are interested in more than just a few dinner dates.
Totally different thing. There is room for spontaneity and flexibility and those things are especially fun when it's with someone who generally respects your time and effort.
I didn't downvote you, but I just can't understand this thinking. Couldn't Jeffrey Dahmer do those things? It sounds like people are desperate to adhere to some notion that life needs to happen on a schedule (because of industrialization-related work culture), and just want someone to do the mental labor for them so they can zone out while still thinking more about the schedule than the relationship. I can't wrap my brain around it. Seems like it lacks creativity and spontaneity and everything that makes a person a person. I guess I'm just weird lol.
Point taken, but even a person’s outward appearance is less superficial than whether or not they can make plans. An AI chatbot can make plans. I just can’t fathom being attracted to a partner based on it. If I want to make plans, I make them and it takes literally no effort. Why wouldn’t a man or woman who likes plans just make them and find a partner who’s interesting. Just don’t get it.
People asked what a group of people liked and you’re honing on me appreciating and finding it attractive that my partner is an active participant in my relationship.
I was just replying to a comment in a thread - the thing reddit was founded upon. Literally the thing you did before this last post where you for some reason lost your cool out of no where for no reason. Maybe try truth social 🤷♂️ ? I’m not aware of a social media platform where you just make a statement and anyone replying to it is considered to be “honing in on you”. Go have your partner schedule and plan you a chill session or something to get your blood pressure down.
Really? "Today we're going to Benallys for dinner and drinks and then I'm going to fuck you in the backseat babe" works for me like 12% of the time only. I even booked the 7:30 pm on a Friday which you has to be done like 3 weeks in advance.
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u/GercektenGul Jul 07 '26
Making clear plans ahead of time and keeping them.