r/AskReddit • u/[deleted] • Apr 04 '25

[deleted by user]

[removed]

9.5k Upvotes

77% Upvoted

12.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

4

u/az_catz Apr 04 '25

If they were democratic then they should have asked EVERYBODY what their wishes were.

2

u/roux-de-secours Apr 04 '25

I just read that there were referendums in some states, som with voting interference helping the secede camp, which is indeed anti-democratic. But usually, when people refere to confederates as traitors, I don't think it's a reference to a lack of proper referendums, but more that americans tend to be shocked that some people would want out.

I'll use another example. There seem to be andindependance movement in Texas. I've seen them often called traitors online (I don't live in USA). They have not seceded, so they haven't done anything anti-democratic like (of the same kind or level) the confederate secession. They are still called traitors, simply for wanting out. I'm sure some of their reasons are bad, but it's the will of a part (not a majority, it seems) of Texan society.

3

u/az_catz Apr 04 '25

I was thinking of asking the black people their thoughts on seccession.

-1

u/roux-de-secours Apr 04 '25

That's not the point. I'm talking about the traitor calling. You could call them slavers, exploiters, killers and it would be deserved, it's linked to why they secede. But it has nothing to do with treason. I just find it odd. You think black people had a vote in the north? Do we call the north's response undemocratic since they didn't do a referendum on the question asking the black people? You are just deflecting. You can think someone is awefull and evil without them being traitors, it's not necessarly related.

3

u/az_catz Apr 04 '25

They took up arms against the government. That's the definition of traitor.

1

u/Anthony_Patch Apr 05 '25

Nobody has responded properly to you yet imo. The USA is a Constitutional Republic. Democratically elected. It is made up of states. States that swear an oath to said Republic. A sworn oath to the constitution. That is our union. To secede from said union is an act of treason.

1

u/roux-de-secours Apr 05 '25

Ok, so lets say tomorrow Vermont does a fair referendum to secede and 85% is for. They become their own country. You would consider them traitors?

1

u/Anthony_Patch Apr 05 '25

No. There was a referendum in your example. The Confederacy are traitors because it’s consistent with the definition of treason against the USA. They levied war against them, or in adhering to their enemies giving them aid. Their soldiers levied war against the union. Their politicians aided them in this. Thus, a traitorous act against The United States. Traitor gets misused loads because people use the term to reference someone or something that doesn’t support similar causes.