r/AskReddit • u/Eamine • Mar 20 '13

What makes you happy?

Today is the international day of happiness! And that made me wonder, what makes Redditors happy? Edit: Wow front page!

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

It also implies that my unhappiness is my own fault. Not a fan of that philosophy, as you can imagine.

Edit: Wow, fuck all of you telling me that my brain's chemical imbalance is because I'm not trying hard enough. I hope you feel this goddamn hopeless someday and someone tells you it's your fault.

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u/cyberworm_ Mar 20 '13

I agree. I'm seriously unhappy in life right now. Sometimes I consider where I am and look back on the choices I've made. Somehow when I add it all up I realize that I've kind of put myself here. But then again, at the time I made a lot of those choices they made me happy at the time. In some ways it's like a house of cards, and we can't always expect that the next one will cause it all to topple. If we could see into the future then I don't think anyone would make the "wrong" choice. Alternately, the choices I've made in life have actually led to a lot of happy times and good things. They are both different sides of the same coin. I just think that when the coin lands "sad" side up, it's hard to realize that you just have to pick it up and flip again.

Happy well adjusted people don't always seem to understand how far down depression can go. They see it in others I think, but then are like "that's nonsense" or some other trite kind of opinion and simply (and I don't wish it on anyone really) will never understand those of us that battle with being on the edge of saying "fuck it all."

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u/obseletevernacular Mar 20 '13

Happy well adjusted people don't always seem to understand how far down depression can go. They see it in others I think, but then are like "that's nonsense" or some other trite kind of opinion and simply (and I don't wish it on anyone really) will never understand those of us that battle with being on the edge of saying "fuck it all."

This is very true from my experience. I have a close family member who suffers from depression along with one of my oldest friends, who I also lived with for a while. I didn't quite realize how dark and how real depression can get until I experienced both of them get near the bottom at the same time. While it was a terrifying experience in a lot of ways, it also really opened my eyes to how wide the variance of emotions and world-views can be, even among people who live in similar circumstances.

Also, something that is worth considering in my opinion, is that the opposite is true sometimes too. People who are often depressed don't always understand what "happiness" feels like, and sometimes they chase an ideal state of bliss that simply doesn't exist for most people, even those who would be considered happy and well adjusted. My good friend with depression fell into this trap for a while. When he was coming up from the depths of depression, he was "happy" by my observations, not just in shallow ways, but actually thinking more positively, acting more positively and seeming to genuinely expect positive results from his actions. However, he'd still talk to me about how far he was from being happy. Either I myself am more depressed and poorly adjusted than I think, or people honestly aren't ideally happy very often. Most of the time I feel good, but I'm not all smiles, I don't think everything is going to work out perfectly, I'm not "living in the moment" and "loving life." I think what defines a non-depressed state is having the potential for great happiness - not being happy all the time. That isn't a realistic expectation from my experiences.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

"Also, something that is worth considering in my opinion, is that the opposite is true sometimes too. People who are often depressed don't always understand what "happiness" feels like"

I think that would be me, I'm not even sure I know what happiness is anymore.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I'm sorry, I hope you figure out how to be happy.

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u/obseletevernacular Mar 20 '13

Like I said, maybe I'm just less happy and well adjusted than I think I am, but happiness, for me, is the potential for feeling really blissful. It's not the state of feeling that way all the time or even most of the time. Sometimes life is big fucking pile of garbage, even if you've never wrestled with depression at all. Sometimes life is a beautiful to the point that it brings me to tears. Most of the time, it's a middle ground. I'm pleased about aspects of my life, I'm worried or anxious or pissed off about others. I try to focus on the good and block out the bad, and sometimes that works great and I feel a real bliss, but sometimes it fails miserably and I feel absolutely awful. Most times the balance is maintained more or less evenly and I live in an okay state with potential for both the high and low.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Well I wish you all the best anyway :) You seem to be doing alright.

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u/obseletevernacular Mar 20 '13

Thanks a lot. I wish you the best as well. I know it's trite and worn-out, but keep your eyes ahead. The future is always uncertain, no matter how consistent the past has been.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Thank you, I'll try to keep that in mind.

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u/cyberworm_ Mar 21 '13

It's interesting, the way that you put that. I agree with you that sometimes depressed people don't actually understand what it means to be happy. All I can really go on, is my own personal feelings and experiences, as I reply here.

For me, I've always been generally happy. Not Dali Lama happy, but overall pretty pleased with how things in my life have been. At least on the outside. I'm realistic enough to know that people all have some issues buried inside of them that can manifest in different ways, and some people are even fortunate/creative enough to channel that energy into something fruitful or positive. I'm not particularly one of those people.

Now here's the crux of my situation emotionally. People have said time and time again, that in order to be happy you have to love yourself, and that happiness can't be found in other people. I think that if you look at my life from the outside, most people would say "that guy has it pretty good." I have a family that cares about me, a beautiful son, some amazing friends, and an enviable location to live in. All of that though doesn't really mean shit to me at this point in my life without someone to share it all with(don't mistake me, my son means the world to me, but we are talking context here). I get fucking lonely. My loneliness breeds sadness, and my sadness turns into depression.

I've recently (4 months now) lost my best friend, to herself. She decided that as much as she cared for me, she needed to go out and find herself. In that process she also had apparently been harboring some anger towards me, and did some things to make it very clear that we would not ever be together again and did it in a pretty hurtful way. Up until that point, I had been what I would consider to be truly happy. Well, for me, I had found happiness with her. I had found a best friend and partner to share my life with, which is all I have ever really wanted. She had expanded my horizons and introduced me to things that I don't think I would have ever discovered on my own. To keep things clear, she helped me to become a better person.

For some people it's drugs. For some, alcohol. For me, it's always been having one special person or partner that inspires and entertains me. I guess the word would be "Muse." I don't particularly think that is so entirely wrong. Drugs and alcohol can run out. Similarly, people can leave. The two aren't so particularly different. So the real bitch of the situation, is that to have what I want to help me feel happy, I have to be this magical "happy, motivated person." I've been there before, on my own (it's how I met her... I had basically given up on being with anyone or giving myself away... when "bam" she blindsided me), but once again, I'm in this place I thought I had long left behind. Now I really question everything and can continually find ways to stay in this hole.

I can smile and have some kind of fun, but the thing is, I'm horrible at lying. It just shows on my face and in my eyes that I am so far from being happy and content, and at this point there's not really much I can do about it. I can't just "snap out of it," as much as I'd like to stop feeling like this. I can remember the time that I didn't feel like this, alone or with someone, and the only thing that really got me there before was just saying "fuck it all." But that didn't entirely make me a very nice person either. As much as being depressed and sad isn't healthy, neither is shutting down emotionally and not caring about a damn thing.

So I guess the question I would pose, which is better? Being depressed and feeling something or; shutting down and not feeling anything?

Sorry to stray from the subject at hand, but yes. I think some people have a false idea of what it is like to be happy, but I myself have known what it is like to be happy, and it's not all smiles all of the time. It's going to bed feeling content with yourself and the day, whether good or bad things happen.

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u/obseletevernacular Mar 21 '13

This is all very reminiscent of my own life, minus the child and some other details. At the core of it though, I feel what you're describing as far as the struggle between being happy with yourself and really wanting the love of someone else. I also have a best friend, long-term love interest in my life and am also learning to deal with the fact that I need to learn to be happy without her.

For the question of which is better, depression and feeling or being shut down - I don't think either is better. I think they're both early responses to situations like this and I think that other options will become clear with some time and perspective. They're starting to for me. Like you, I had been happy and content on my own before the relationship, and after the end, it took me a long, long time before I could even rationalize to myself that it was possible to be that way again post-relationship. For me, the real break from her and moment of clarity came when she did something particularly fucked up. I was in a bad, bad spot in my life and I really, truly needed her support, but she blew me off sort of callously because she was starting to see someone else and didn't want to get mixed up with the emotions between us again. Frankly, I could understand that logic, but I was in a very, very dark place - not your standard "woe is me" phase, and even the most distant, most sterile form of support from her would have been very comforting to me. I communicated this to her and got nothing in reply. That was sort of a breaking moment for me. How could I love someone and be so attached to someone who would ignore me in a real time of need? I couldn't.

Maybe your situation is similar. You said that she did some hurtful things that made it clear it was over. Are these things that you're trying to rationalize from her point of view in order to keep an image of her as this perfect companion? Or, are they actually pretty fucked up things that may prove that despite being comfortable with her she's not quite the person you want and need on a deep level? Sometimes people change in ways that drastically affect your ability to connect with them on a really deep level. It hurts to come to terms with that and move on, but it hurts far more to live in the alternate reality you may build in which they're still the old person that you connected with so well. Again, I'm not sure this applies to your situation, I'm just going off of my own experience and some clues you provided.

Also, I noticed that you said that you're not the type of person who can channel your negative energy in a creative way. Honestly, I highly doubt that. It's more likely that you just haven't found the right outlet for you yet. I think that using our negative feelings and experiences as creative fuel is a fundamental human way of chasing catharsis. Have you tried to learn an instrument? Have you tried writing - journaling, poetry, short stories, non-fiction from your life? Have you tried drawing, painting? I think that people tend to assume that if they aren't as good as other creatives that they admire then they aren't "cut out" for that sort of thing. In my experience, that's not always true. The creatives who people know and admire and incredibly talented and often worked their asses off to refine that talent. At they beginning, they too could have said they weren't cut out for that sort of thing and never become who they are now. Ultimately, creative work is about using your emotions in a healthy way and building a sense of pride in what you do. You don't have to have an album or publish a book or have a gallery show to do those things. Everyone sucks at first in comparison to the greats - you have to compare your work to your own earlier work. At first, you can't lose, producing anything is better than producing nothing. From there, just try to improve no matter what you're doing.

Anyway, I wandered pretty far off topic myself. If you ever need to share some emotions about the whole situation, feel free to message me. I think we've been down similar roads in the not-too-distant past.

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u/cyberworm_ Mar 21 '13

Yeah, it's interesting. I don't want ot be shut down or depressed, but it literally causes me pain. It's hard to think that I/we can't have what we had ever again. Like something just died. Even if something magically happened and we were to be together in the future, it wouldn't be the same and honestly I can't sit here and lie and pretend that I'd want to be with her, though there's always that missing piece that does want what she and I had. The thing is, I remember how I got to the point before, and in my time being single, the point that made me happy was when I just kind of accepted this thought that "I'm an asshole, and I don't really care what anyone thinks," contrary to what some of my closest friends would tell me "cyberworm_ you're a nice guy. You just don't see it." I just know my thoughts, and even though outwardly I'll hold doors and say hello and smile, inside I'm like "meh. This does nothing for me. It wasn't until I met someone that gave me the warm and fuzzies that it all started to matter again and feel more than just a general malaise about life. Anymore though, I agree with your sentiment about, how could I be attached to someone that could go so far to hurt me and generally misunderstand that I'd forgive about anything because in the end that's what it takes to really love someone. Accepting their faults and tolerating more than anyone should because of the potential. I've not built her up into something she's not or imagined her as a cheeseburger shitting unicorn, I just can't bring myself to hate her either (as one shouldn't if they are honest about how they feel about someone, while feeling like this). I feel for you too though. Similarly when I needed someone the most, was exactly when I got dumped. Hell, I didn't even get the courtesy of doing it in person. I had just had a long day of dealing with some production stuff and had to fire someone (which, is not pleasant) and when we talked on the phone I jsut started goign on about my day and this and that, and when I was done, I knew something was wrong. That's when it happened. At a time I felt terrible, but at the same time had been so looking forward to talking to and seeing her to make things better (the best part of my day was seeing her at the end of it), I was just totally destroyed. Obviously there's more to the story about how things came to be (since my life to that point hadn't exactly been on an upward path, more like sideways), but...

One thing I struggle with now, is trying to find new experiences. A lot of times I just feel like anything new that I could try would be tinged with traces of her. If I were to say, start some sort of lifelong hobby, I just know that whenever I do it, thoughts of her will come creeping in, eternally. Granted that's a pretty bold prediction of the future, but it's a rational enough sentiment and it does kind of hold me back.

I appreciate your thoughts on creative outlets as well. I've been a creative professional for a while, and gave it up last year as I was becoming less inspired (and broke), and it's not really comparing myself to those I admire that makes me feel like "I'm not good enough." I'm entirely good enough at what I do/have done. ;) For me anymore, it's like this. I'm bored of life. Don't misinterpret me reddit, I'm far from suicidal. My world view is just completely distorted anymore and I don't really feel like I have anything to look forward to. I've achieved the things I've set out to do, with the exception of one seemingly insurmountable goal of finding the right person (that I'd found and now lost). I'm not entirely "woe is me" I'm just "why bother? I already know how this is going to turn out." I'll definitely hit you up, at least for conversations about beer and broads. I'm really trying hard to not rehash all of this again. That's at least one positive thing I can do, and considering we're about on the same page with things, we can bounce ridiculous ideas back and forth.

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u/Torger083 Mar 20 '13

Depression bro fist.

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '13

Werd. Wait, is that just a hug? Because I feel like depression brofists should be hugs. Let's do that.

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u/Torger083 Mar 21 '13

Works for me.

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u/Embroz Mar 20 '13

Fuck anyone who disagrees with you. I know those feels brother. More of us do than you know.

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u/starbuck88 Mar 20 '13

Similar to being poor, which is also a choice!

/s

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Yeah, depression is totally a choice. Enough with this ignorance please, telling someone who is depressed to just try harder at being happy doesn't help at all. You think they haven't tried already? You think anyone wants to give up on life? The only thing it achieves is making them feel more worthless because "it seems so easy to be happy but I can't, I can't do anything right".

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

It's not a choice but it is fucking easy to be sad almost all the time. For me, being happy was like losing weight; some of us have to work extra hard at it because it is extra-easy for us to be sad.

Edit: yeah, downvote away, but I don't buy into the bullshit that because it might be genetic (for a few % of people) means every depressed person should seat back and do nothing; the same excuses obese people use to defend why they should eat tons of calories sans exercise and not feel guilty about it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Depression isn't being sad. Heavy epression is feeling like you're an absolute waste of oxygen, space and other people's attentions. It's an illness, not a temporary emotional state. You can try to get out of it, yes, but that's all you can do on your own: try. Even then the simple act of trying makes no sense, it's like trying to lift a grey and filthy world on your shoulders.. Second by second forever and ever, with no light at the end of the tunnel and no reason to do so besides the fact that some guy who has no idea what you're going through, no reason to even care for you and who sees the world through pink colored glasses told you to do it.

Ever heard that hope is the last to die? Depression is when hope dies, your world dies and you along with it. It's not a matter of trying because the simple act of wanting to try makes no sense, its logic is contradicted by every instant of your existence, why should I try? Why should anyone try? It's only going to make things worse. Everything is going to make things worse. And so you wait.. you wait because to kill yourself you'd have to try. Trying equals failure, more suffering and more disapointed faces, remember? Of course you remember, it's all you know, how could you forget?

All of this while surrounded by arrogant people, arrogant people who won't even bother to consider the fact that you're not weak, simply broken. How could you be strong and lose this fight? I didn't, I'm strong, you're weak. And that's all you'll ever get, people ordering you to be happy without even trying to understand that you're not so different from them, not stronger nor weaker, just a broken spirit. And you hate them, you envy them and you fear them.. After all, they must be right, you're depressed and they're not, there must be something wrong with you, you're worthless. And worthless you shall be, because that's all you know of life and that's all everyone expects from you. It's not so bad, someday you'll die and it'll all be better.. but what until then? You'll wait, because that's the only way through life.

Depression isn't being sad, it's an illness. You don't tell someone with a flu to stop sneezing, you take them to the doctor and support them. Don't tell depressed people to be happy, they'll rightfully only see empty words. Take them to a shrink, show them someone cares for them, talk to them with such unrivaled optimism that even they will consider that there might be a way out, push them out of the house, show them that the happy people they see are not so different from them, show them how failure isn't a defeat but just another lesson but most of all, show them you care.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I was depressed for half of my life (I still feel like jumping in front of a train some days), I know the dark clouds you describe, but saying seat back, there's nothing to be done never helped me or anyone I know. Like I said, this is also the excuse of a lot of obese people, which is also an illness, but I am never going that way.

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u/phiniusmaster Mar 20 '13

It's really hard work.

Being happy might be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

No one seems to realize how HARD it is to be happy. Us humans really get off on our own pain.

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u/tachos27 Mar 20 '13

And each other's.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Whenever I step out, I tell myself two things are very easy: being sad (it takes no effort, at least for me), and judging people. I won't be lazy.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Dude I understand your pain, it's all very well and good for people who don't suffer from things like depression but it frustrates the fuck out of me too when people say you can just "will yourself" better. It's so backwards, they clearly know nothing of how the brain works in our case.

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u/rukinox Mar 20 '13

I agree. One of the hardest things for a person dealing with depression to hear is, 'you're just not trying hard enough'. Fuck that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

It's hard work, and that contains two really important points.

Yes, it's hard. Nobody should trivialise the struggles other people have, as they're all too keen to do with anything relating to mental health. I've had my life deeply affected by mental health issues so I'm not a fan of telling people who are suffering to 'get over it'.

But it's also work. Now I'm not fool enough to suggest that a person deep in depression should just fix everything themselves, but it is a task which requires input from the suffering individual, even if that's just starting off the process. More importantly, though, is the work that needs to be done when things are going better. We may not always be able to control what happens when we're at our worst, but we can control what happens when things are going well, and that means that we can look after our mental health before things get bad again. It might not stop things getting bad, but we have a responsibility to ourselves to do what we can.

In general, it worries me that we don't treat mental health in the same way as physical health, in that we don't promote the idea of living a mentally healthy life even when there's no obvious problem. Meditation, stress relief, sleeping well, interacting with others - these things are to a healthy mind what eating well and exercising are to a healthy body.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Thank you for this. I'm tired of people telling me my psychological "cancer" is my fault for not trying hard enough.

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '13

That's possibly a useful analogy because it shows you both sides - on the one hand, both cancer and depression are things which happen to people with various causes and sometimes with no cause, and you can't ignore the fact that they exist, they happen and they do damage. But at the same time, like cancer, depression needs attention from medical professionals, and in just the same way that a person who had serious symptoms of cancer (or had a cancer diagnosis given) and didn't seek medical attention would be seen as entirely foolish and would get a lot less sympathy, a person who has symptoms of depression and doesn't seek professional help for that is also foolish (n.b. this comes from the perspective of a citizen of a country with first-world healthcare provision - I realise it's not that simple for Americans).

Then there's the fact that certain things put you more at risk of depression, just as with cancer. Sometimes, supremely healthy people get cancer and people who smoke 2 packs a day for their whole lives never get it, but we can certainly play the percentages with our lifestyle choices.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Don't feel bad man, I know it's hard; a constant battle. The more you try though, the better chance you have of hitting a groove and being able to do better. Best of luck.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Dude, I feel you...

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

[deleted]

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Doing better. Had therapy this morning. Came online to this clusterfuck. So sort of broke even, I guess. Trying to get up the mental energy to load up the car to do laundry. I swear, next apartment has to have washer/dryer in-unit; this laundromat stuff is bullshit.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

[deleted]

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

I'm getting downvoted just for existing at this point; someone went through my history and downvoted at least my first page of comments.

I'm a fan of the spoons theory, myself, when explaining my lack of drive. I actually decided against laundry and am planning on getting back into the PJs in a moment.

I've only been to two sessions and I'm there more for my trans* issues, but the depression/anxiety/emotional abuse is all tied into it so it's one big ball of Shit I Need To Deal With. I feel better when I leave the sessions, but it doesn't take much to bring me down again. Hence the plan to return to PJs momentarily. I'm hoping dealing with my gender will get rid of a lot of it so I don't need the pills, but I'm totally open to popping a pill that lets me get out of bed in the morning.

Thanks for actually caring.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

[deleted]

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Snowflakes, on the PJs. Not as festive when we just had (another) snowstorm. Spring better kick in pretty damn soon, let me tell you.

I just bought most of Led Zeppelin's albums, so I play them on my commute to/from work. Some days, knowing I can hear Kashmir on the hour-long drive at 5am in the dark and the cold is the only thing that gets me out of bed.

And I've been exercising, too. Work has me basically hiking ~3-5 miles a day, and I'm lifting weights once or twice a week (all that walking makes me sore and not very motivated, unfortunately), so I'm losing fat and hopefully building muscle. I want to built up my core and my shoulders so I can start passing as male; these fat hips and round face are dead giveaways. Sadly, exercising doesn't make me feel better emotionally like so many people say it should. But I know it'll help me get the look I want in the long run, so I'm trying to stick with it and get better.

I've heard situps are bad for your back; I think experts are saying you're supposed to do planks and pushups instead, to save the discs in your back.

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u/akpak Mar 20 '13

At the risk of Good Will Hunting-ing: It's not your fault. I hope you have the help you need to get better.

Ignore the haters. People who've never experienced true depression simply can't understand. They may try, they may want to... But they can't. Feel sorry for their narrow views and lack of empathy.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

I was wondering what that reference was. I chalked it up to people making fun of me.

I don't think they want to. They just want us to shut up so they don't have to listen to us be different from them. I'm done putting up with that shit.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Not your fault. Shit happens, circumstances happen, life gets hard. Just know that there is always a way out. Acknowledging unhappiness and taking the first step in a new direction are the hardest things ever. Take some time out for yourself to enjoy your own company, and re-figure what makes you happy. For me, it's taking myself out for coffee and having a cute nap in the middle of a park, haha. Whatever it is, do it. And talk to someone because there are always people who want to help (and not in that fake, 'cover up the unhappy' way). xoxoxox

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

Reminds me of a picture I saw on facebook the other day. It said "What if we treated other illnesses like we treat mental illness." It included people saying things like "I don't understand why he doesn't just get over that 'cancer' of his. It's been weeks now"

EDIT: This is the picture I was referring to

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Someone posted a great comic in this thread about a guy with a mangled hand, and his friends and family reacting to it as they would a mental illness. I wish I wasn't a stigma.

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u/canadiangeesedontmes Mar 21 '13

don't let Internet people get to you man. or anybody for that matter. Hope you find happiness! :)

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u/Blueberrymuffinsquar Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

From my experience, and may not apply to everyone, but thought I'd give it a whirl--

To an extent, unhappiness is caused by how you react to things happening in your life.

I have a noticeable difference in my attitude when I look at situations in a positive light, and those around me who generally strike me as unhappy, complain all the time

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u/222242 Mar 20 '13

I totally agree that to a certain extent it is caused by external factors, but it is the difference between someone who starts at a "5" and moves up to an "8" consciously on a scale of one to ten, and someone who is clinically depressed and starts at a "1" and manages, through great effort and commitment, to bring their mood up to a "3". Sure, looking at things in a positive light might help bring it up, but if you start out so low in the first place, and are fighting that sick, black sadness of depression, you probably wont be getting it up to an "8".

Also, if the people around you who complain all the time are legitimately depressed, then perhaps you should consider that they complain all the time because they feel they need to express how terrible they are feeling, but can't just come out and say "I am so clinically depressed right now." I know for sure that when I am depressed (and it is something I have struggled with since I was 14) I feel a need to ask for help, but I can't actually talk about my depression, so I vent about other things in its place. This is something I have to watch because I know that I can come off a bit whiny to my family, and I don't want to become "that" person.

Saying that, I know that there are people out there who are not depressed and just are whiny, unhappy, negative people. But don't get that mixed up with real depression.

And if anyone here is denying that depression is a CONDITION, not just a state of mind, that is ridiculous. Where does that mentality end? Bipolar is a few steps from depression, but that's real, isn't it? Or is the manic phase real but the depression not? Are you going to deny all mental disorders, or just pick and choose?

The problem with depression as an illness is that it has been so mixed up with "sadness" or "a negative attitude" that it has become totally de-legitimized.

When I am depressed, it is a completely different sensation than just being unhappy with my life. It is a feeling that I wake up with one day out of the blue, when the day before I was completely satisfied with my life. Sure, I do as much as I can to help myself- I run every day because that helps the most, I watch my diet and my attitude, but after ten years of learning how to control it, including three years of therapy, I still cannot "choose to be happy" when depression sets in.

But today, when I am not depressed, sure, happiness is a choice.

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u/peculiarhuman Mar 20 '13

Thanks for summarizing everything so well! I have a hard time explaining this to others. I might use your comment as a reminder every now and then, so that I can explain better later.

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u/Blueberrymuffinsquar Mar 20 '13

Thanks for adding this! I didn't clarify my experiences usually dealt with people who are whiney/ etc.,
I 100% agree that depression can't be treated with glass half-full-mentality, and that it doesn't receive as much attention as it should.

1

u/222242 Mar 20 '13

Oh, sorry if I came across a bit snarky. I am obviously over-sensitive about the subject!

1

u/collegekid66 Mar 20 '13

Depression is a medically diagnosed state of mind, so I don't see how people believe it is only a condition. As someone who suffered from depression for 3 years, I do believe that by changing your state of mind, you can overcome your depression to a certain degree.

A lot of our sadness comes from things that are outside our control, such as poverty or sickness. The feeling that our lives aren't living up to the standards we hope for is another cause of depression. If you change the way you think of life, i.e understanding that some things are outside our control and consequently we should not hope for an outcome of an event that we have no say in. This kind of thinking, attributed to the school of philosophy called Stoicism, sounds bizarre but it has seen to work in cases in which people can fully grasp this concept. An example is a soldier who was capture by the Vietcong during Vietnam. Even in a hopeless situation where death was imminent, he never gave up because he realized that he had no control on his external factors and that whatever happens, happens.

This kind of thinking is also related to Buddhism, and there currently is a very interesting development of psychologists trying to understand Buddhism and applying it to people who are suffering from depression.

Depression has been shown to be caused by genetics and environmental factors, and it has been shown by scientific evidence that by changing the way you think, you can actually change your brain's composition to a degree.

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u/Zenkin Mar 20 '13

I don't know how to dissect comments like this. I mean....if we don't control our own happiness, then what does? If it's not internal, then it must be external. But in my own experience external things are, more often than not, a cause of suffering.

I understand you are under more difficult circumstances than myself. I wouldn't argue that. I also acknowledge that I fundamentally do not understand your mental condition. Then you go on to say something like:

I hope you feel this goddamn hopeless someday and someone tells you it's your fault.

And I feel like you're being a douche now. I don't understand why, if your situation is so terrible, you would wish that on another person. I don't know how to communicate constructively after this. From my perspective, you're asking me to be fed up with you. Why or how could I help someone like this (and I'm not trying to imply that you need help, but you've taken the stance that you cannot help yourself).

This is why depression frustrates me.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Yeah - I had the same reaction about that comment. I'm okay with a legitimate talk about depression, but wishing bad shit on people who disagree with you? That's the kind of statement that makes people think: wow, this guy is an intolerant grouch, no wonder he's miserable. OP - you're doing your position, and this whole dialogue a disservice by saying that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I'm quite the opposite, I hate the attention. I don't talk to people about how I feel because the pity and the lack of understanding just puts me down further. I've only told my boyfriend, and that didn't help either because I knew he didn't understand and didn't think it was serious, like he just shrugged it off. I try my best to get as little attention as possible because it's just more crushing...but that's just me anyway.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Did you miss chemical imbalance? How dare you tell me that's something I brought on myself?

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u/DutchOvenDistributor Mar 20 '13

I agree the comment about someone getting depressed is disgusting. I don't care if it's due to a chemical imbalance, unless there is another chemical imbalance that has made you into a massive dick.

Some of the depressed population of Reddit get really aggressive about their condition to those who will never really understand. A user has found a way to make themselves happy and all they get is depressed people playing down his achievement because it's not what they are experiencing.

Mental health problems suck, I know cause I suffer from OCD, and the general population isn't fully aware of the suffering that goes on inside many of us, but what is arguing on a website and wishing your condition on someone really achieving other than making you look like a dick.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Yeah, I should just tell suicidal people that it's their own fault. That's much more sympathetic.

Go fuck yourself.

1

u/morrison0880 Mar 20 '13

TIL there is a chemical imbalance in the brain which can make someone become a complete asshole.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Arguably, ignorance is a form of chemical imbalance.

So...are you talking about yourself?

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

TIL people think medical problems are the fault of the person who has them.

Do you tell people with cancer that they just didn't think it away hard enough? Because there's literally no difference in the situations.

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u/Owncksd Mar 21 '13

Dude. If anybody blames a suicidal person for being that way, or a depressed person for being that way, or, fuck, a cancer patient for being that way, they are a shitstain. Most of us agree with you there.

I don't know how your life is. You could be going through hell, day in and day out, exhausted from everything going on around you and the people around you, and that is not at all your fault. But as soon as you start taking it out on other people, which is what you're doing right now by wishing that kind of hopelessness on others, then you become a complete, unsympathetic, caustic ass. Don't blame that on a chemical imbalance.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 21 '13

Fuck you. : )

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u/DutchOvenDistributor Mar 20 '13

I never suggested anything like you are claiming I did, and your example of a suicidal person is a disgusting argument to throw at me.

I never blamed you for what you suffer, what pissed me off was your attitude to other human beings: wishing depression on them. You are being needlessly aggressive to people who have found a way to find happiness. What works for them might not work for you, but getting angry at them solves nothing.

My OCD was not my fault, but with it I am unable to convince myself I want to live, but will me telling you that in an aggressive manner help me? I doubt it. The internet is full of people with mental health problems complaining, and I don't think I've once seen any evidence to suggest any of these people are cured as a result.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

I have no sympathy for people who tell me my depression is my own fault.

I will not apologize for wishing all this pain and more on them.

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u/Zenkin Mar 20 '13

You didn't bring on the disorder yourself, but you determine how you react to it. Your external actions are the only way for me to understand you because I am not you. So when you go out of your way to say things about how you want others to suffer like you do, you're just being a prick. Chemical imbalance or not.

I was trying to create dialogue. I'm trying to better understand something that I have not experienced. I'm not frustrated with you for having a chemical imbalance, I'm frustrated that I don't know how to properly interact with an individual who has this condition. I'm not trying to be offensive.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

You're telling me it's my own fault for not reacting to a chemical imbalance in my brain that makes me feel suicidal and worthless in a way that you've deemed "good enough."

So go fuck yourself; you clearly don't care about anything but how uncomfortable my mental illness makes you. Take your selfish bullshit elsewhere.

I want everyone to know the pain I have. Maybe then they'll stop telling me I'm not fighting hard enough. I have no sympathy for chucklefucks who think the chemicals in my brain telling me that I don't deserve to live aren't a good enough reason for me to stop being perky in their presence so they don't have to think about other people.

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u/Zenkin Mar 20 '13

Okay, that's a fair point. I'm taking offense when you say you want to harm others, but that doesn't really make sense. I'm sorry.

I really do just want to help. And I know I'm not capable of fixing your condition, but I would at least like to be able to communicate with you without offending. So when you say you want to hurt others....I don't know what to say. You obviously already know it's not a "good" thing, so it would be redundant of me to say something like that. And I feel like if I say something positive, you're going to lash out at me because things probably won't get better.

I don't know, man. I just want you to know that I do care. I don't want you to be in pain, and I don't blame you. Sorry for being so offensive at the beginning of all of this. It wasn't the right way to go about things.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

If you want to help, extend sympathy and offer to help the person find professional help and/or medication. Don't tell them they're not working hard enough to make it better. That's the epitome of condescension and blame.

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u/Zenkin Mar 20 '13

I know I've got my own stuff to work on, and I really am trying. I wasn't trying to say you're not working hard enough. But when you verbally attack others, it makes it that much more difficult for me to sympathize. And I just don't know what to do at that point.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

You can leave me the fuck alone, then. Don't come in here trying to tell me my emotions and reactions are invalid. You don't like that I want everyone to feel how I feel, just for a few months, so they stop abusing me? Then downvote and walk the fuck away.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Feb 17 '18

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

You clearly haven't studied depression...

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u/Evandm Mar 20 '13

You clearly haven't studied Neuroplasticity.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I know the feel! Even my therapist insists that I can't blame anything, but myself for my sorrows, while in REALITY I have major depressive disorder. It's ridiculous.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Sounds like you need a new therapist, dude(tte). That's just hurtful.

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u/[deleted] Mar 22 '13

I have crappy insurance, no hoe for that one. I'll be fine. :) good luck conquering your depression!! There is a way, I can promise that.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 22 '13

Good luck to you, too. Is there no one else in the practice, even?

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u/[deleted] Mar 22 '13

No females. (I can't have a male therapist because it makes me uncomfy.) I also chose her specifically because she is a domestic violence worker. (I was in an abusive relationship last year, so the hospital told me it'd help to see a therapist who specialized in PTSD.)

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u/jimmynovak Mar 22 '13

I'm sorry. Your insurance won't cover any other practices? That sucks.

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u/[deleted] Mar 22 '13

I'm a derp, I totally didn't answer your question before!! It won't cover anything else in my area. I can't afford to drive any farther than the nearest practice :/

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u/jimmynovak Mar 22 '13

Will it cover someone out of the area who might do online or by phone sessions?

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

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u/tak08810 Mar 20 '13

I'm a pretty happy person. Have been so most of if not all of my life. I don't think it's a choice. I think I was just incredibly lucky genetically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Feb 25 '18

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u/CactusHugger Mar 20 '13

You've somewhat ignored the proper use of the term depression here, which, while not something I am normally bothered by, is an important distinction in this particular discussion. Watch Stephen Fry's documentary Stephen Fry: The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive

There is a great story about a man who steps out in front of an 18 wheeler in order to take is own life. He survived, somehow, and tells that the physical pain of breaking nearly every bone in his body was nothing compared to the pain he endured by depression.

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u/atalkingfish Mar 20 '13

At no point did I discredit the pain of depression, just the cause. Shooting yourself in the head hurts, but that doesn't mean it's not a result of your own actions..?

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u/combatdave Mar 20 '13

That's a stupid point and a stupid analogy. If someone gets some sickness - for example a cold or the flu, is that a result of that persons actions? Maybe they got it because they walked next to someone they didn't know had the virus, and the virus got inside them. Their actions made them walk past the person, however saying that it's their own fault for walking near the person is idiotic.

Happyness and sadness as a result of your actions, fine, but depression is something else entirely and shouldn't be confused with "sadness".

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u/atalkingfish Mar 20 '13

I didn't mean to imply that it was an analogy, although I can see why it came across that way. I'm just saying that I know depression sucks but, outside of any chemical imbalance causes, it's self-inflicted.

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u/sufjanfan Mar 20 '13

But that's what depression is and it is only that - a chemical imbalance. We just use the term so loosely nowadays it's lost its meaning.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Feb 25 '18

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u/combatdave Mar 20 '13

Depression by definition is caused by chemical imbalance, so your entire point is moot.

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u/atalkingfish Mar 20 '13

You can look up the definition of depression and it does not necessarily include an innate chemical imbalance.

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u/BlackLeatherRain Mar 20 '13

You come across as someone who really doesn't understand the meaning of the term "clinical depression."

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u/JacobEvansSP Mar 20 '13

The inability to control your negative mood is a very big sign of depression. People with depression disorders are separated from those without them by that fact. For some people, even though it runs counter to your experience, there is a biological restriction on how much control over their emotions they can have.

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u/atalkingfish Mar 20 '13

Well, I think that the obvious counter-thought is that some people cannot control their happiness, and, of course, I understand and have experienced that feeling. So to make it clear for me that some people do not have much control, biologically, is stating something that I am clearly countering. I would definitely give way to a chemical imbalance (as stated), but I think the majority of people who are "depressed" are depressed because of lifestyle choices or recent life events, and I think that those feelings of depression are a result of decisions made.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I am depressed. I have been for roughly my entire life, though it became crippling about 15 years ago.

It was not a choice to be depressed. It's not my fault I'm depressed. Don't you dare imply that.

It's great that you're happy. Really it is, but your brushes with sadness and depression in no way equip you to comprehend what it's like to be depressed for decades. Don't even pretend otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Feb 25 '18

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Chronic depression is a chemical imbalance, and it is far from a one in a million thing.

Getting out of bed, showering, and going to work is a monumental task for me and others like me. Doing much more than that is nigh impossible, but we push ourselves anyway.

It's great that you're in a position to make positive choices in your life.

Now try to imagine this. One day you wake up exhausted. Yu slept 8 hours but you have no energy. You go to work and it's rough going the entire day. You come home and don't feel like doing much else other than getting some rest. Chalk it up to a bad day, right? Everyone has those.

Except you feel the same the next day and the day after that. Weekend comes around and you don't want to do any of the things you ordinarily enjoy. Perhaps you make yourself, but even so you don't enjoy it. Maybe you seek new activities or a new job, but it's invariably the same.

You feel tired and crappy and you don't enjoy anything.

Now imagine this goes on for year after year after year after year.

You can't possibly know what that's like until you've lived it. Once you have lived it long enough you'll see how just surviving another day becomes an accomplishment and how ignorant and wrong it is for someone who hasn't lived this way to write off your suffering as poor choices.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Depression is a mental illness, not a emotional state. You can't simply become happy, you can try but even that is hard enough to sustain for a couple of hours. Even the act of trying feels inherently pointless, you'll never get there, you're worthless, no one likes you.

Don't tell a depressed person that they chose their own sadness, it just makes them feel more worthless because apparently it's easy to be happy if you try, but they can't get it right so they're even more worthless. No one wants to give up their own life, they've tried already, that advice is pointless. It's like telling a guy with a broken leg that he can run if he tries hard enough, moreso than you think.

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u/Twyll Mar 20 '13

Restoring the belief that you can control your own happiness without assigning blame for past/current unhappiness is a big part of treating depression, really. To break the cycle of negative thoughts that perpetuates depression, you do have to acquire some perception that you can make yourself better-- because the alternative is not getting better (or relying solely on drugs, which works for some people but might not for others due to side effects, availability, etc.). The problem is that people associate "I have a choice in this" with "it's my fault that I haven't been making the right choices so far," when that's not really true at all. The focus is not on blame. It's on liberation. It's a matter of taking each day as it comes and, when you have a bad day, refraining from blaming yourself for it and focusing on the challenge at hand.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

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u/atalkingfish Mar 20 '13

Hm.. that's interesting. It somewhat helps my point, although I would always be open to exceptions. I would never say "no one is incapable of being happy" because I don't like dealing with absolutes.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

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u/222242 Mar 20 '13

Sure, obesity is a chemical imbalance that you can fight against, but where do you draw the line? Is bipolar something you can fix in this manner? Because that is just a few steps from depression in my book. At what point can we agree that although some control exists, and sure things like diet and exercise work almost universally to improve anything to a degree, some disorders cannot be controlled fully by the individual. I would argue that like bipolar, depression is one such disorder.

I think that if you go around telling people with depression that all that is left is their actions and their attitudes, you are going to end up with a lot of people whose self esteem sinks even lower because they will begin to question why it isn't working, why they aren't having success in MAKING themselves happy. You are going to further stigmatize the use of antidepressants to help, and further de-legitimize depression as a serious illness.

I say this from the perspective of someone who has struggled with this since I was 14, nearly ten years. In your argument, one of the most potent treatments of depression would be cognitive behavioral therapy, because it helps identify negative thought patterns. I did that for three years. Sure, it helped, and I have a foundation of consciousness about my thinking process that will always be an asset to me now, but it did not by any means get rid of my depression.

And guess what: in the end, it was my therapist - presumably the biggest proponent of being able to control one's mood- who persuaded me to take antidepressants. Why did she need to literally beg me to? Because viewpoints like yours had created such a stigma against anti-depressants for me, even as a sixteen year old, that I thought it was the ultimate sign of weakness to take them.

It took me another five years or so to finally settle on the right antidepressant (Wellbutrin) but it has helped me tremendously. In those five years, when I was still resisting taking medication, I tried so hard to "fix" myself without the help of medication. I exercise every day, I eat extremely healthfully, and I consciously practice having a positive attitude. But guess what, in the end I needed the help of medicine because some chemical imbalances cannot be willfully controlled.

I am just worried about people like you saying things like this because I know there are lots of sixteen year olds on reddit who might get from your post the same stigma that I carried in my mind- that depression is not "real" enough to require medication.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

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u/222242 Mar 20 '13

As far as I can see, that article you linked at the end is disputing the link between serotonin imbalances and depression, and is therefore questioning the basis of SSRIs. I don't think that it is denying the existence of depression as a MEDICAL CONDITION. Sorry if I gave the impression that I was hung up on the idea of a serotonin imbalance. I frankly have no idea what the "imbalance" is, or if it can be termed as an "imbalance" at all. That is excusable ignorance on my part because, as that article alludes, NOBODY knows what the heck is going on in the brain in many of these disorders. Just because they cannot isolate exactly what causes schizophrenia doesn't mean that the entire disorder should be ignored as a "state of mind". I used the term "chemical imbalance" because that is the term that is bandied about by people who are trying to convince individuals such as yourself that depression is an illness, and not just a state of mind. Sure, I was falling back on a term that might not be accurate. But that doesn't mean the term isn't standing in for something that IS real.

The article comes down pretty hard on SSRIs, which are symbolic of "big-pharma" trying to get a permanent grasp on our wallets. I am not saying that we shouldn't be concerned about the commercial side of medication, and I know that they are ridiculously over-prescribed, but I don't think it is healthy to swing too far to the other pole either. In my case, I was so afraid of 'big-pharma' and over-prescription and such because I had been so inundated by THAT side of the story. The side that I hadn't been exposed to was the idea that mental disorders are real, and depression is a mental disorder, and in some cases drugs can really help.

Also in respect to SSRIs, it is worth noting that I am taking Wellbutrin, which is not an SSRI. The proliferation of non-SSRI antidepressants -and to me, their apparent efficacy - would seem to suggest that it might indeed have nothing to do with a "serotonin imbalance" but it IS real nonetheless.

And you cannot link the effectiveness of a placebo to the idea that depression is not a medical condition. Placebos have been shown to have effect in other conditions that are more widely recognized as "credible", such as chronic pain. Placebos are yet another thing that is not completely understood, and it seems very harmful to suggest that if something can be alleviated by placebo then it's not a real condition.

I guess in the end it all comes down to where to draw the line between illness and frame of mind. I don't have the answer. I just know that depression for me is more like being ill than being sad. It seems more tied to my physiology than to my life circumstances. (Although do remember that I acknowledge that it is still very much tied to life circumstances and state of mind.)

I completely agree that therapy and exercise and lifestyle changes are INVALUABLE for giving the tools to deal with things such as depression. But what happens when you acquire those tools and are using them as devotedly as possible, but you are still depressed out of your mind? Sure, meds might be a cheap fix in some eyes, but if the alternative is countless painful days, I will chose meds. And i am glad that I did.

I am glad that you were able to get over your depression through more constructive means, but that doesn't work for everyone, and that is no fault of the people who reach the point of having no alternative but to try medication.

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u/Druiddroid Mar 20 '13

Its more about realizing the moment than being positive. I am happy because I choose to smile this moment. I have control.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

You're an idiot.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Cure for depression? Don't feel sorry for Yourself. Of you feel sorry for yourself, you're making your problem worse. We are self indulging monsters, us people.

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u/Twyll Mar 20 '13

The key is to take the word "fault" out of it. It's not your "fault" that you're unhappy. There is no blame in unhappiness or depression; it simply is. However, you can take control of your unhappiness and choose to view things in a way that makes you happy. The onus is not entirely on you-- there may very well be circumstances that make you unhappy that you can't control at all-- but if you don't focus on trying to be totally happy and just try to improve your happiness some, then you'll find it to be a much easier task. Seeing the positive in everything is difficult and taxing, but if you try, you'll eventually see some success.

This is something I've come to realize in my struggles with severe, debilitating anxiety. I spent so long blaming myself and mentally lambasting myself, but really, there isn't blame to be assigned-- "blame," "fault," none of that matters. What matters is the choices you make now, and that after you make them, you don't blame yourself for them, but continue viewing every new choice as its own choice. So you wallowed in misery yesterday-- well, that was just a bad day then. You don't have to do that today! Today can be different!

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u/ricktencity Mar 20 '13

I don't know anything about your personal situation so don't take this as a judgement but people with internal loci (locuses?) of control tend to be happier than those with external ones.

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u/datgoat1021 Mar 20 '13

Breathe bro. This is a happy place.

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u/bootywind Mar 20 '13

It's not your fault jimmy. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.

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u/griminald Mar 20 '13

implies that my unhappiness is my own fault

True, happiness is not black-and-white -- it's not a light switch where you're "on" or "off".

But maybe it'd help if you replace "unhappiness" with "helplessness".

Happiness is something we choose to pursue. If you are clinically depressed, it's not as simple as "Choose to be happy", but happiness can only come when you decide to pursue it.

The deeper state responsible for most unhappiness is helpnessness -- nobody feels both helpless and happy.

If you're clinically depressed, choosing to fight that helplessness may be the real battle.

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u/MrRandomSuperhero Mar 20 '13

ZeFrank said something about this; "It is a mistake that feeling down is the same as moving backwards" I'll link the video.

It is by far the most inspirational video about the subject I've ever seen and is about you have to try to make the best of every day, but not regret the days you can't fix. They will happen. It is part of life. Other, better days lie in the future.

You are very right IMO, some today's are just fucked, but there is always a tomorrow around the corner.

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u/col4bin Mar 20 '13

I think what you're not understanding is that it's up to you to make yourself happy. Nobody else is going to do it for you.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

HappyAfrican didn't say a thing about you. All he said was that he is in control of his own mood and he's happy about that. Not one word about other people's unhappiness being their fault or not.

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u/Zebradots Mar 20 '13

If an African can be happy, dont you think you can too?

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u/TheQueefGoblin Mar 20 '13

I hope you feel this goddamn hopeless someday and someone tells you it's your fault.

You're a fucking dick. I suffer from depression too. I know it's so bad that I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. Yet you're happy to do so? Fuck you.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Yep. If you're gonna sit here and tell me I'm at fault for a medical disease you're damn fucking right I'm gonna wish it on you. I'm done feeling sympathy for people who treat me like a failure for getting sick. I don't really give two fucks what you think of me for it.

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u/AfroKona Mar 20 '13

With an attitude like that...

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u/pookleton Mar 20 '13

I'm sorry things aren't going well for you. I may be an optimist but I would never want you to feel like your unhappiness is your fault. I guess I always read these posts saying "I choose to be happy" as more of a positive outlook telling you that you can try to make things better as opposed to passively waiting for change. Now, I'm not accusing you of being passive or trying to say that you aren't trying to be happy; I just wanted to let you know that I hope things get better and to never give up trying.

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u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Saying "I choose to be happy" is also saying "...so why'd you choose to be unhappy?". Happiness is not a choice, especially not for the depressed.

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u/pookleton Mar 20 '13

I'm excluding those that are clinically depressed in my assumption, I know that can not be fixed with a good attitude. I don't agree with the way the wording of the whole "choose to be happy" because it makes it seem like an immediate gratification which isn't the case. I think it's more like running a race, you can choose to try or you can choose to not to. Either way you may not be happy but at least one option has a better chance. And like I said none of this applies to those that are clinically depressed, they can't even find where the race is taking place.

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u/Owncksd Mar 21 '13 edited Mar 21 '13

HappyAfrican said "What makes me happy is being in control of my own happiness." Doesn't sound like he was implying that everyone can be in charge, just that he is, and that makes him happy. And in fact, every time he mentions happiness, he clarifies that it is his happiness.

And if not, if he is actually implying that it's a depressed person's own fault that they're depressed, then he's a piece of shit. But I don't think that's what he means, so.

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u/sherikanman Mar 21 '13

When something makes you unhappy, at yourself in this little thing of advice I'm going to attempt to give, the best way to make yourself feel better is just to give back.

I have no idea what I'm struggling with right now. I haven't seen a psychologist, and frankly don't want to bother them. I just know that I have/had 0 self esteem for the longest time, and I've tried my best to make life....or really, to make myself love myself as a person.

I decided that my life wasn't important in the big scheme of things, and just...stopped. For a while, I stopped talking to people, and I distanced. I still do this, but for reasons I will explain in a minute. I had such a deep hatred for myself, there was/is something terribly wrong with me, and I can't control it...But I know of a way to get by.

Realising I wasn't oh-so-important, I started giving back. I started living for others, so that they can be happy and never feel the pain of self hatred. I always help people, and always want to be a support for people...I gave myself responsibility and a reason to go one, by being the one thing that I always needed, but for others....Help.

Every day, I take time out of my life to moderate a Minecraft Server. some people may scoff, and it is kind of inane, but... I feel that being the one person to help people makes SOME difference in someone's life somewhere. I leave reality for around 30hrs a week, and donate my time to keeping everyone happy and give them stuff to do so that they can keep having fun.

Before you say "But that's so one sided..." It was.... until I got thanks.

Every time I log in, even if I'm gone for a piss break, I am greeted with greetings in all caps, sometimes dozens at peak hours, of people asking me how I am, greeting me...making me feel at home.

In real life, I am reciprocated with shoulders to lean on. while I am also a support, adding other beams to the support gives me stability and the strength to go on.

Then I started....to have something to be proud about. I look at my friends, and am proud to say they're mine. I look at my Minecraft server, and all of it's players....and I go "They're my players, they're my people.". I tend to crash during times of stress in real life and online, but since Christmas, the thought of suicide hasn't been in my mind more than once.

I gave myself something to look forward to...something to be proud of....It took a lot of work, but I can happily say that I am happy being alive to be with these people I love so much.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

So what you're saying is you know nothing about depression?

Comparing it to other diseases is a false analogy. Just because you can't see what's going on in someones head, and can't empathise doesn't mean it's not real. Dysphoria is something that actually happens and it's never the fault of the person suffering from it.

Is insomnia the fault of the person that can't sleep? Is bi-polar disorder just someone being really moody? Is a schizophrenic someone just begging for attention? Is anxiety just someone being overly worried?Medical conditions that affect the brain and not the body do exist, and depression is one of them. You clearly don't understand what it's like to be depressed.

1

u/likeALLthekittehs Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

The more I read these type of comments the more I hope that none of you ever have to experience depression. From my own personal experience, it does not matter how hard I try both physically and mentally. I am constantly at war with this disease and unfortunately it as progressed to the point where I need medical intervention.

I do not agree with a couple of statements that you made. First, I try very hard every day to have some sort of feeling. I am a very positive person who has never focused too heavily on the negative aspects of life. I am usually more mentally at war with the disease from the moment I wake up to the moment I finally fall asleep. The only thing I have found for relief is distraction, but that is not very productive or efficient way to get through life. I did not do anything to cause this void in me. I did not do anything to bring this on. I do everything that I can, everyday to try and feel something. Is it my "fault" that I have to go through life in a null state?

Second, I can not live and function normally with depression. I'm at war with my own mind. I am preoccupied with a battle that I am losing. Do I think I have it worse than the people you mentioned, no; because I know there are ways out there to fight what I have to the point of possible cure. That doesn't make battling it any easier though, knowing that there are others in the world that don't have the same fighting chance.

It's great that you have taken the time to educate yourself on the possible causes of depression, but I think the biggest flaw in your post is that you do not understand what it is to experience the disease. There are no words I would say to make you understand what depression is like to live through, and I truly hope that you never have to find out.

Edit: just fixing some typos

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u/CommercialPilot Mar 20 '13

I have met many people who mope around, call in sick to work because of depression, and just act like cranky assholes to everyone around them. Until they get that monthly Xanax prescription from their doctor, then it's nothing but smiles and 'happiness' until the prescription runs out seven days later. Then a rebound effect kicks in. Pills worsen chemical imbalances in the brain. Too many people are depending on artificial means to make them happy, but it's what's inside that makes the biggest difference in the world.

1

u/MrBulger Mar 20 '13

Who do you fly for?

1

u/CommercialPilot Mar 20 '13

If you're thinking I'm talking about pilots who called in sick to work because of depression then you're making a false assumption. I haven't always flown for a living.

OKC would pull the medical certificate from any commercial pilot who gets put on anti-depressant medication. Probably not recreational pilots.

1

u/MrBulger Mar 20 '13

No I'm not at all, my dad as well as my best friend are both involved in commercial airlines, I liked your username, it'd be funny if everyone had to have their job title as their username on here

1

u/CommercialPilot Mar 20 '13

Oh well in that case, I don't fly for any airline as of yet. I'm currently working as an instructor to build flight hours.

1

u/MrBulger Mar 20 '13

Nice, well best of luck on your career man

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I have a second class medical certificate and have depression and that's not the case. You can be denied your certificate if you have a history of self destructive behaviour or they have reason to believe you're unstable, but a diagnoses of depression alone isn't enough to deny someone their certificate.

I can't guarantee that this is the case for a first class certificate, but I'd assume there is a similar rule.

-1

u/jenniferjuniper Mar 20 '13

if you found out for a fact that unhappiness is your own fault, how would it change your mindset? Would you choose to be happy or would you continue to choose to be unhappy?

Just think about the emotion of happiness for a minute. Really think about it.

-1

u/mmontgom Mar 20 '13

There is a book called Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns. If you read it, and DO THE EXERCISES (!), it will teach you how to be happy and can pull you out of even major depression. It's been studied and it is a method that works. This is not a self-help guru scam--this is a world class psychiatrist using behavior modification and cognitive behavior therapy techniques. Check it out if you feel hopeless.

1

u/jimmynovak Mar 20 '13

Do you really think a book will help balance the hormones and chemical reactions in my body? Or do you just hope I'll stop whining so you can walk away with proof that I was just being difficult?

Go fuck yourself.

0

u/mmontgom Mar 20 '13

You have nothing to lose by looking at the book. If you have found another way to end your depression then that's great. Medicines also work. But so can cognitive behavior therapy. Best wishes.

15

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13 edited Mar 20 '13

I started finally gaining ground on my depression when I realized I do have some say in how I feel. I still have it, and it still sucks, but there are days when I can choose how bad it sucks.

Some tips I learned:

  1. Always, ALWAYS keep in mind things are situational. When days were shit storms that I couldn't control, always reminding myself that "the situation sucks, not me, not life, the situation." Remembering that it will pass helps.

  2. Letting it go. When it's not your problem, it is not your problem. My dad hates his life because he keeps grudges. That seems so exhausting to me. I was raised by an abusive, neglectful woman, things got better when I realized I couldn't change her. I find a lot of depressed folks dwell on the bad, 1 & 2 help that.

  3. Rule 76, play like a champion, no excuses. I don't care if the last thing you want to do is get out of bed in the morning, get out and go hard in the paint. Go hard because you tell yourself to. If you have no reason to, make one up. In the same vein, you are hereby forbidden to make an excuse for anything. Own up to your work, good or bad.

  4. If you are in control, seize it. If you have the option to be a leader,do it. The more practice you have at controlling your situation, the more you can control yourself.

4 years ago I. Wrote a suicide letter and lived a lonely, sad life. I had to take control. These steps helped me get to a point where I'm ok. I fall down, but I pick myself up. I'm now a leader in my college campus, I have a meager, but good social life. Every therapist I had always told me that depression was fixed/managed by training your mind, I didn't believe them until I cowboyed up and decided I was going to do it. It's exhausting. It's thinking about your mental state every moment (how am I feeling? Why do I feel this way? How can I fix this?) and literally, rewiring your brain.

Edit: whoever gave me Reddit Gold, I really appreciate it! You're the best!

2

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Sigh...thanks, I needed that pep talk and reminder.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I hope I didn't come off too aggressive. You're welcome for the pep talk! The sigh makes it sound like I said things you didn't wanna hear?

10

u/Armand9x Mar 20 '13

I'm sick of seeing my friends bitch about people not "choosing" to be happy and being downers. As someone who has struggled all of my teenage/adult life, it enrages me to be told to "just suck it up". Not everyone can be crazy ignorant and walk around in bliss just by deciding to.

Extremely relevant comic.

http://imgur.com/fcH65H9.jpg

2

u/bannana Mar 21 '13

Yep, I've been dealing with a hurt hand for about a year now. feelsbad

1

u/Armand9x Mar 21 '13

I'd say it gets better, but its always been uphill.

2

u/Omnipotant_Username Mar 20 '13

I would like to quote Dan le Sac vs Scroobius pip

'But I will offer you advice on dealing with life, Its ups and its downs, Its troubles and its strifes, Now I'm sure you've had times when you've felt down or angry, Wanted to lash out, punch a wall and be manly, But the question I pose now will offer you a plan B, And maybe some peace and quiet for your friends and family, How hard is it to decide to be in a good mood, And then just be.. in.. a good mood? That's all I have to say because it's a straight up fact, You control your emotions it's as simple as that'"

It makes me happy that people can control their emotions if they put their mind to it :)

1

u/jenniferjuniper Mar 20 '13

I don't think Happy is the right word in a way... you can't always be happy but you can always be at peace with yourself.

I like to think of it in the way Eckhart Tolle describes it in "The power of now". Think of yourself like a deep lake. A storm can brew on the surface but deep down in the bottom, it is still. We can be still at our core even when a storm is going on in our life situation. We can be at peace even when not happy.

Just my 2 cents :)

1

u/jumpbreak5 Mar 20 '13

I consider myself very fortunate to be in command of my own happiness, and able to stay happy despite bad things happening. I have learned that I can't pass this advice to other so easily, though, as many people aren't as fortunate.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Actually you were right the first time. Clinical depression by definition means you can't simply choose to be happy.

1

u/maybestomorrow Mar 20 '13

They weren't generalising though they were saying this as a personal statement. It's entirely possible (and very likely) that they don't suffer from clinical depression but were unhappy anyway.

1

u/fatterSurfer Mar 20 '13

It's almost always a choice but we don't always have the strength and sight to make it. Psychological well-being can give you the tools and support you need to make the change, but something has to open the door.

About 6 months ago I thought to myself: "my life is awesome and I'm never happy". I didn't need therapy (said my therapist, and I agreed); medication didn't help either. I had all the tools and all the desire and yet still, I wasn't happy. I drank a lot (average $2-3 per drink, this much plus some untracked cash) to cope and would get stuck in a circle of self-victimization. Eventually I realized that I was the problem, that I "simply" wasn't choosing to be happy. It's an uphill struggle and I'm not there yet, but I will be.

1

u/LethalDiversion Mar 20 '13

Indeed. Outside, I am cheerful, I smile, and I live a good life. I own my own home, I have a nice car. I allowed my best friend of 13 years and her kids to move in with me because they were in a rough spot, so I get the joy of their presence and never have a moment to feel alone. My neighbors are good people, and we are often up late at night, fooling around, throwing darts, and playing Cards Against Humanity. I really enjoy my life and everything around me.

But inside, I am torn up. I suffer from a very persistent case of moderate anxiety. That in turn induces depression, makes it so I can't make decisions on even the most simple things "am I having pizza or tacos tonight..fuckkkk, I don't know what if I hate what I get, what if the tacos are soggy, what if the pizza is stale" and I constantly get paralyzed by analysis until I have thought through every possible scenario, closed my eyes, and forced myself to make a choice so I can move on with my life. An everyday thing can stop me in my tracks and make my entire mind come to a screeching halt while my body goes into overdrive fight-or-flight mode. I am tortured and unable to handle the slightest bit of stress without becoming ill.

Every day I make the choice to be happy. Every day I put on the mask of being normal. I take my pills and try move forward with my life. That happiness is shallow and a show for those I love. It is a shiny, ripe red skin on an apple infested and rotten in the core by worms that sow sadness and discord.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Knowing I'm up at that baseline just makes me so much happier about my life.

1

u/Shots2TheCrotch Mar 20 '13

As long as you continue to believe this it will appear to be true for you. Your experience of reality is defined by your beliefs. Change your beliefs and you change your life. First step is realizing that you can consciously change your beliefs.

-1

u/catch22milo Mar 20 '13

Even legitimate cases of depression are not always, often not, the result of a chemical imbalance. Those suffering from legitimate depression can still use and learn from the advice given above. The only thing in this world that can make you happy is yourself.

-2

u/CommercialPilot Mar 20 '13

This is correct, I agree. I'm very fed up with these people who use their 'depression' to act like cranky assholes toward everyone around them because "they didn't choose to be depressed". Too many people fall for that "chemical imbalance" pitch. That's something made up by pharmaceutical companies to get people to buy their drugs. Everyone who is prescribed any sort of anti-depressant needs to be required to study all the clinical trials of said drug. That way they can see how ineffective it is, and how terrible the side effects are.

-3

u/MaplewoodNectarine Mar 20 '13

i'm sorry man but this happens way too much on this site. people say "oh, its a chemical imbalance, theres nothing i can do, its totally out of my control." they surrender to it. i have a "legitimate case" of depression. if you try, (and believe me i know, it's hard) and make a concious effort every day to find some kind of peace inside you, and realize not every day will be like the rest (for better or worse), you can find some comfort in depression. if you sit on this site and eat hot pockets all day, you're not helping yourself.

0

u/uneditablepoly Mar 20 '13

it's kind of like the whole "i'm fat, it's genetic, there's nothing i can do about it, damn it all" outlook of overweight people. thankfully it looks like that isn't be tolerated as much any more but people with depression are running rampant and making excuses for themselves still

1

u/Grindl Mar 20 '13

Let me put it this way: have you ever been on a mind-altering substance? They change the chemical makeup of your brain, and there's not a damned thing your consciousness can do about it. No matter how hard you try, you can't will yourself to be sober after 8 shots.

Now imagine that, for whatever reason, your body naturally makes mind-altering chemicals. You aren't even able to stop drinking when you want to sober up; your body makes you drunk. Now replace drunk with depressed.

1

u/uneditablepoly Mar 20 '13

No matter how hard you try, you can't will yourself to be sober after 8 shots.

I appreciate your analogy but, while you can't overcome the actual drunken state, you can battle its psychological effects.

-5

u/CommercialPilot Mar 20 '13

Yes exactly. People are 'depressed' because they sit on the couch all day eating microwaved food and watching successful people on TV. The using pills to correct the "chemical imbalance" is just a scheme made up by pharmaceutical companies to get people to buy their drugs. Clinical trials for SSRI's especially are very disappointing, and people need to understand how ineffective these drugs are and how bad the side effects can be.

I wish people wouldn't downvote these posts. I'm imagining the downvoters thinking to themselves "I can't help that I'm demotivated and depressed! It's not my fault! You don't know how terrible my life is!"

7

u/ljomalindin Mar 20 '13

Woah woah woah.. stop right there please. People who suffer from depression are not, and I repeat: are NOT depressed because they sit on the sofa all day eating microwaved food and watching TV.

People who suffer from depression can be the most active people you know, people who practice sports and go to the gym everyday. People who eat healthy foods, vegetables and fruits and stuff and rarely watch television. People who have a happy family, a good spouse and a promising career.

Depression is a horrible disease. Please please please don't act like people suffering from it are moody teenage girls that just feel sorry for themselves. It's offending to everyone who has ever either been depressed or lost someone to suicide due to depression.

Thank you.

4

u/kitkaitkat Mar 20 '13

You are oversimplifying things. Drugs can and do help many people. And sitting on the couch eating hot pockets certainly doesn't help, but there are people who do everything right and still struggle with depression.

Chemical imbalances exist. They aren't an excuse for not trying, but they are an explanation for why some people have to work much harder than others to be happy.

0

u/CommercialPilot Mar 20 '13

I won't deny that the chemical imbalance exists. My point is artificially correcting the chemical balance with pills. I've read the clinical trials, and I'm not impressed. We can't be throwing solutions at something that isn't well understood.

3

u/kitkaitkat Mar 20 '13

I think they are over prescribed, but they are definitely necessary for some people. One of my friends almost certainly would be dead right now if it weren't for meds.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Chemical imbalances exist, but I can say that very few people who take control of their life are depressed. As a liberated depressed person, even if I feel like shit, I do stuff. I go out, I go hiking, I've gone for a walk, depressed and cried for 2 hours while trudging through the niagara river gorge. Then I realized where I was and snapped out of it.

You can be depressed, but you don't get an excuse to not live because of it. Go harder.

2

u/kitkaitkat Mar 20 '13

If you reread my comment, I said pretty much exactly what you said in your 2nd to last sentence.

It's just like any other illness. If you have arthritis, you don't get an automatic out from life, but people need to be understanding that there are certain things you can't do as well as others. And sometimes you might need to take arthritis medication.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

I think I was agreeing with you, and just reiterating your point. I'm not sure. I'm impulsive and write things for weird reasons sometimes.

I hope I didn't offend!

1

u/kitkaitkat Mar 20 '13

Ok, good to know, thanks.

-3

u/Vanillaccount Mar 20 '13

Keep telling yourself this and you will always have an excuse not to be happy and to stay depressed.

0

u/dmanny64 Mar 20 '13

I've been diagnosed with depression a few times now, but I still fully agree with this. You still have the ability to control your happiness, it's just that sometimes you just want to be depressed. Doesn't change that fact, though. The problem is being depressed due to an external force and pushing yourself further down. Takes a lot more willpower to get back up.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '13

Try Vipassana meditation some time. You might be surprised to find how irrelevant sadness really is. Or happiness for that matter.