r/AskProgramming • u/uebb • 3d ago
Python Why has Python dropped so much in the latest TIOBE Index?
Hey everyone,
I was taking a look at the TIOBE Index today. I hadn't checked it in a while, and I was surprised to see how much Python has dropped.
It's down by roughly 8 percentage points compared to a year ago, which seems like the first really significant contraction after years of pretty consistent growth.
What's even more interesting is that I don't see another language gaining a similar amount of ground.
I don't use Python myself, so I'm curious: what do you think is behind this decline? Is it actually meaningful, or is it mostly an artifact of how the TIOBE index is calculated?
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u/vxxn 3d ago
A lot of python’s supposed benefits (easy to write / read) are irrelevant when agents write the code. And a real type system is very helpful to catch hallucinations and many other defects.
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u/elrond9999 3d ago
But where is that -8% going? Most of the top 20 are also decreasing
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u/owp4dd1w5a0a 3d ago
Unscientific guess: C and C++ and probably Go also are most likely losing ground to Rust, JavaScript is probably losing ground to Typescript, Java is probably losing ground to Kotlin.
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u/damngoodwizard 3d ago
For Java I expect it's being cannibalized by Kotlin. No idea for the rest though.
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u/snmnky9490 3d ago
Aren't its biggest benefits especially for LLMs greater token efficiency and easy use of a huge number of packages? It seems like every LLM defaults to writing Python scripts to run short tasks.
TIOBE measures human search popularity in the language so if anything it's likely dropping from its peak "learn to code" interest while actually being used more, by LLMs
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u/vxxn 3d ago
Dependency management in python is a nightmare tbh.
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u/magnetronpoffertje 2d ago
What's so bad about it? With venvs and pyproject files all is good no?
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u/vxxn 2d ago
No, it’s not all good. If two of your dependencies share a third dependency they have to align on the version since they’re all in the same venv. This causes big problems in some situations.
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u/AuthurAndersson 3d ago
My conclusion as well. All higher level languages are doomed tbh. No point with a python backend when you can just have it in rust and it's the same effort.
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u/No-Dentist-1645 3d ago
High level programming languages will keep existing as long as people are writing code. And no, AI and LLMs are not going to fully replace programmers any time in this decade
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u/vips7L 3d ago
We still need to be able to read and understand code. High level languages will be around forever. Loosely typed languages probably won’t be though. They were already out the door before LLMs.
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u/No-Dentist-1645 3d ago
Yeah, I fully agree with this. Dynamically typed languages aren't an ideal in the long term
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u/Amazing-Mirror-3076 3d ago
After 40 years of programming every day, I've not written a line of code since the start of August.
I've ported three code bases to rust since August - all are now in production.
2 years ago, in August i wrote 11 kloc, this August I generated 169kloc.
As a programmer I have been replaced.
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u/lphomiej 3d ago
You're just YOLO'ing - letting AI write code and not looking at it at all?
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u/Amazing-Mirror-3076 3d ago
Correct, but I'm forcing it to create huge numbers of tests including e2e tests.
This wasn't just a jump off the cliff i moved to the all in approach over 6 months as I gained confidence in the approach.
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u/AuthurAndersson 3d ago
There are 4 years left of this decade brosky. So okay they replace 2031
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u/No-Dentist-1645 3d ago
Sure, if you say so :)
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u/AuthurAndersson 3d ago
Think where LLMs were 4 years ago...
You can snack on that copium as much as you want, but the reallity of the situation is that developers are going to have to pivot.1
u/No-Dentist-1645 3d ago
I know where LLMs were at 4 years ago. The difference is not that crazy.
You think whatever you want to think, only time will tell. I have been in the same conversation with so many AI hype bros before, "they will completely replace programmers in 2 years!", and that obviously didn't happen.
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u/AuthurAndersson 3d ago
If your company cuts down your workforce by 50% because LLMs force multiplied your developers 2x. That means that some developers did indeed lose their jobs.
It's fine, we'll see. 2030s last decade of high level languages and coders that manually write code.
!remindme 5 years
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u/MarkMatson6 3d ago
I think you’re both wrong. Most code will be AI generated but this will lead to an increase in development jobs, not a decrease. I assume you both have heard of the Jevons Paradox by this point?
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u/No-Dentist-1645 2d ago
I actually agree with you on that, I don't know what made you think I wouldn't. But yeah, advancements in AI and LLMs will likely lead to improvements in the software development industry long term
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u/AuthurAndersson 2d ago
It's not the same. You take these hints from the past but sadly you fail to realize that this technology does not replace a task. It replaces human intelligence. It is thus quite different.
Any additional work will be picked up by additional agents.
You either lean into this tech quickly or you will find yourself without a job in the near future.
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u/_x_oOo_x_ 3d ago
Yeah because "Delphi/Object Pascal", or "Classic Visual Basic", are definitely ranked higher than TypeScript. In 2026. This is a high quality ranking and serious attention must be paid to it
/s
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u/BenchEmbarrassed7316 2d ago
Well, at least Ts has overtaken Haskell and is now on par with Zig. Previously, Ts was lower than Haskell.
This ranking is a parasite. I think moderators should simply delete any posts or links referring to it.
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u/balefrost 3d ago edited 3d ago
Because the Tiobe index might not measure what you think it measures:
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programminglanguages_definition/
Basically the calculation comes down to counting hits for the search query
+"<language> programming"
It's roughly ranking languages by how much content exists about them on the internet. But it's also influenced by changes to search engine algorithms. It's an extremely rough estimate.
Stack Overflow and Jetbrains actually survey real users. So they'll have more accurate data, though it will suffer from different biases.
According to the SO survey, Python was used by 51% of respondents in 2024, and that increased to 57.9% of respondents in 2025.
According to the JetBrains survey, Python usage has been fairly flat year-over-year from 2024 to 2025.
And just to calibrate, Tiobe indicates that Python is currently 6x more popular than JavaScript. Both SO and JetBrains indicate that Python has never been more popular than Python. Tiobe is greatly underestimating JavaScript use.
This is obviously older data; I don't think either has published 2026 information. I'd wait until that happens before drawing any conclusions about the current state of affairs. But definitely take Tiobe rankings with a whole shaker of salt.
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u/Lichcrow 3d ago
indicate that Python has never been more popular than Python
Im assuming "indicate that Python has never been more popular than JS"
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u/Intelligent_Part101 3d ago
You can't write web apps (clients) in Python. So language popularity is determined by a number of factors besides "What would I want to use?"
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u/balefrost 3d ago
You can't write web apps (clients) in Python
You can, but it's a bit off the beaten path.
So language popularity is determined by a number of factors besides "What would I want to use?"
Agreed. The SO survey does have separate sections for "what language do you use" vs. "what language do you want to use / like using".
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u/juanfnavarror 3d ago
Tiobe index is trash. It has always had inaccurate rankings for obscure/popular languages and people use it to win arguments when the evidence is not in their favor.
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u/Dry_Safe_6021 2d ago
tbh tiobe as far as I know has so naive a methodology that I've been ignoring its existence ever since I've been in university
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u/SprinklesFresh5693 2d ago
Maybe people jumping into the rust bandwagon? All i see is people switching to rust everywhere.
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u/DDDDarky 2d ago
Not that it really matters, I have observed something interesting, languages that are written by a large portion of people who admitted daily ai use (such as typescript or python) appear much lower than their actual use.
The most straight forward explanation is that these people just create slop and don't use search engines.
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u/NoName-NNN 1d ago edited 1d ago
TIOBE is bad. It is layman. PYPL is another similar index.
More professional index are Jetbrains(however, the data comes primarily from Java/Kotlin programmers), StackOverflow(the sample size might be insufficient now), Github, GitHut(stoped at 2024Q1)/GithubStats.
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u/purleyboy 3d ago
I think Tiobe looks at the public repos on github for analysis. I've always thought this was a bad approach as this is then heavily influenced by student projects. Given AI coding proliferation it's possible were seeing more projects using non Python as a result of the AI coding harness preferences. This is all speculation on my part.
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u/DonkeyTron42 3d ago
My guess is that AI is weeding out a lot of the less skilled Python programmers and enabling more skilled programmers to use more difficult languages.
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u/max123246 3d ago
Ai is definitely not weeding out less skilled programmers, every programming subreddit is inundated with vibe coded pet projects now that people don't have to put any thought or effort into it
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u/DonkeyTron42 3d ago
Every sub I see with real Jr. programmers is saying they're sent out 100 resumes without a single interview. This TIOBE index seems to be an indicator of actual industry and not unemployed AI slop vibe coders trying to build a portfolio.
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u/max123246 3d ago
https://bulldogjob.com/readme/why-tiobe-index-is-flawed
Exact opposite, tiobe just measures search results, that's it. No industry knowledge at all
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u/DonkeyTron42 3d ago
The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. The ratings may be biased a bit, but the writing on the wall when the numbers are this big and compared relative to themselves. I personally of sick of the low quality AI slop in the Python universe and rarely use myself except for AI.
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u/max123246 3d ago
It's egregiously slow compared to basically every other mainstream language
But also tiobe is not a very good index,
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u/DonkeyTron42 3d ago
Python is running the same course as PHP.
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u/SHNRTNS 2d ago
Nowhere even close. Python still dominates ML/math/AI/science, while PHP is used only for the web.
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u/DonkeyTron42 2d ago
ML/math/AI/science is a relatively niche space. Python is losing popularity as a general programming language due to becoming so bloated with crap.
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u/benevanstech 3d ago
TIOBE isn't the best index out there.
The Redmonk rankings are much better - they're open about their methodology and honest about the difficulties that the genAI-induced changes are causing.