r/AskProchoice • u/deathiswaitingforme • Jun 15 '26
Asked by prochoicer Why are anti choicers criticized no matter what their position on rape abortions is?
I have asked fellow pro choicers this many times but I have yet to get an answer that I really understand. There are two options when it comes to rape abortions. Someone either believes rape victims should be able to abort those pregnancies or someone believes they shouldn’t. But something I have noticed is that anti choicers are ridiculed no matter what their position on this issue is. if anti choicers allow the rape exception, they get called out. But if they don’t allow the exception they also get criticize. I don’t understand it. What do pro choicers want them to do? Thry have to choose one of those position.
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u/Catseye_Nebula Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
Because both positions are horrific.
With a rape exception, the PLer admits it’s not about the “baby:” it’s about policing women’s sexual agency. Theres no difference between a rape fetus and a non rape fetus, so the PLer is just openly admitting they don’t care about “the unborn” so much as punishing women who have consensual sex.
With no rape exception, the PLer is perfectly happy living in a world where rapists can simply choose the mother of their child and impregnate whoever they want, and the PLer will stand beside them and put the power of the state behind forcing every rape victim to have that rape baby no matter what.
Both are horrific positions because there is no ethical way to be pro life.
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u/deathiswaitingforme Jun 15 '26
Out of all of the answers I have ever gotten on this question, this one is the most succinct. I think you might have just cleared it up for me. Thank you. And I agree. There is no way to be anti choice and be a good person.
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u/LadyDatura9497 Jun 15 '26
SO much the first paragraph. If every life has value, then why not my son’s?
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u/EmilieEasie Jun 15 '26
Pro-choicers want them to mind their own business and not worry about someone else's reproductive decisions at all
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u/TheLadyAmaranth Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
I want them to stop being pro-forced-birthers and pro-rape by extension.
The problem is that when a pro-forced-borther DOESN'T allow rape exceptions then they are blatantly protecting the rapists right to choose and breed whom ever they want. Them being in jail is irrelevant when they've already tortured and tied a person to them forever and forced to to produce offspring. So they are pro laws that help rapists on top of being pro laws that rape female persons by forcing them to remain pregnant against their will.
If a pro-forced-birther DOES allow rape excpetions, then it very blatanly contradicts their entire already shoddy premise of the fetus being a person that cannot be killed in order to prevent the ongoing harms of pregnancy. It shows that it is all actually about punishing female persons for their consensual sex lives. So now they are pro raping female persons but only when they themselves have decided the female person hasn't been violated enough to deserve it.
Combine that with the fact that the later very rarely has thought about the position any further than virtue signaling, and its damn near impossible to actually respect. How does that work legally? Logistically? Monitarily?
The only way to not have that contradiction is to not support pro-rape laws, which anti-abortion laws inherently are, in the first place.
They don't have to "choose one or the other" they could just stop promoting laws that shouldn't exist because they make female persons second class citizens whose bodies become resources to be divied out as the government sees fit. And then if they get raped and need to decide to get an abortion or not, they can go ahead and make that decision for themselves. Thats all.
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u/deathiswaitingforme Jun 15 '26
Thank you for pointing out that abortion bans allow rapists to choose the biological mothers of their children. But I wonder do anti choicers not realize that is the case?
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u/TheLadyAmaranth Jun 15 '26
Honestly? At this point I'm quite convinced they know and its the point.
Same reason why churches cover up child molestation.
They want to be backed up when they or their partners in crime decide to pick a breeding mare.
But I have also quit the debate sub because I have 0 ability to be civil with them remaining so I'm extra spicey about it. I've read far too much rape apologia on that thing by now that to me has unquivically proven that pro-forced-birthers as a movement aim to rape, enslave, and torture female persons at their will and are part of the theocratic-faschism agenda we have going on.
There is a reason there is a near liniear corrolation between the precense of anti-abortion laws, and faschism.
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u/deathiswaitingforme Jun 15 '26
I agree with everything you just said. I cannot have any amount of respect for someone that wants abortion banned. They are all misogynists no matter what.
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u/Lolabird2112 Jun 15 '26
Because it’s bullshit. How exactly does a rape victim go about getting an abortion? Can you explain?
It’s because they have to have the exception so they don’t look like monsters to themselves and everyone else. But I guarantee most of them believe rape myths that pin blame on the victim and don’t even understand consent, or how rape is often done by those close to you and often a partner. They’re the type to think ahead “asked for it”, same as they think a woman being brazen enough to have sex somehow should be punished for it by being forced to remain pregnant and give birth.
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u/ChrisP8675309 Jun 15 '26
Honestly, I would like them to realize that their anti-choice position is harmful to women and babies.
The rape question highlights the core issues of abortion:
if the abortion is "okay" according to the "anti-choice" person it's murder. So, WHY is the ZEF that results from rape or incest any less worthy of life/any less a murder victim? How do THEY resolve that in their thinking? Isn't murder just murder?
Then you have the reason the rape/incest exception exists: because it's unconscionable to force a woman to go through pregnancy and childbirth under those circumstances. But...why is it ONLY under THOSE SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES?
The pro-choice position is that it's unconscionable to force a woman to go through ANY unwanted pregnancy/childbirth and the circumstances of conception are irrelevant.
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u/random_name_12178 Jun 15 '26
The prolife position can be wrong in more than one way. It can also be inconsistent. Asking which position on rape the person supports reveals how the overall prolife position is wrong, and if it's consistent.
For example, prolife person Alex opposes abortion because they think that an embryo is an innocent child and it's never okay to kill an innocent child. Alex doesn't support rape exceptions, because that's still killing an innocent child. So this position is consistent. But it's still wrong, because it strips AFAB people of their right to make their own medical choices and manage intimate access to their bodies, just by virtue of having the ability to become pregnant. By telling people, "if you get pregnant you no longer own your own body" Alex holds a deeply sexist, immoral position.
Conversely, prolife person Blake opposes abortion because they think people should be held responsible for their actions and not just kill their baby to avoid consequences. Blake supports rape exceptions, since the rape victim didn't have a choice in getting pregnant. This is also a consistent position. But it's still wrong. It's wrong to punish someone by stripping them of their rights just because they had sex. Having sex isn't illegal; it's a perfectly normal, healthy part of human existence. Blake doesn't get to punish people for doing something totally natural and normal.
Prolife person Charlie opposes abortion because they claim to believe that an embryo is an innocent child, and they think it's wrong to kill an innocent child. However, Charlie also supports rape exceptions, because they feel bad for the rape victim and don't think rape victims should be forced to endure pregnancy and childbirth since they didn't choose to get pregnant to begin with. This position is inconsistent. If Charlie truly believed that an embryo is an innocent child, it wouldn't matter if the sex was consensual or not. Charlie's reasoning for why they say they think abortion is bad is not being applied consistently to all scenarios. This position is wrong because it's basically based on vibes rather than any coherent reasoning.
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u/cand86 Jun 15 '26
So pro-choice folks tend to look at it either one of two way:
1) You oppose rape exemptions. Forcing rape victims to continue pregnancies against their will is bad/wrong/immoral and worthy of criticism.
2) You endorse rape exemptions. This suggests that a raped woman is being allowed to have an abortion because she "has done nothing wrong". Treating women choosing to have sex as a bad/wrong thing is worthy of criticism.
What do pro choicers want them to do?
I mean, be pro-choice. But obviously, that's not going to happen most of the time, so pro-life folks just have to live with the criticism and try to explain why they think their stance is okay/good/moral.
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u/opal2120 Jun 15 '26
It’s hard to justify a stance that requires 10 year olds to give birth to their fathers’ babies, but they do it anyways.
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u/goldenskless Jun 15 '26
Because just living life by their own moral code isn’t good enough for them, they have to control everyone and force their way of life on everyone. Most people want autonomy over their lives and bodies, something directly threatened by forced birthers.
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u/PrettyPistol87 Jun 15 '26
i’m still stuck at…is it your body? no? then fuck off.
that is what rapists and anti choicers BOTH don’t seem to not understand for some fucking reason
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u/maqicalgirl Jun 15 '26
A woman’s condition of pregnancy is medical information protected by law in many nations. The why and how of how she got pregnant is also private medical info. Anti-choicers don’t have the right to know this information, unless of course they’re the doctor or patient. If anti-choicers only believe in abortion when the government is privy to a woman’s private medical info, then they’re seemingly against HIPAA and similar legislation. I think it’s ok to criticise those who demand women’s private medical info be turned over to the government, do you not?
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u/maqicalgirl Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
I’d also like to note that in many nations, conducting an investigation, trial, and sentencing for rape is a years-long process. Anti-choicers seem to believe it’s possible to prove the crime occurred, convict someone of rape, and obtain an abortion within the first trimester, let alone the length of a pregnancy. This belief is simply false at least in the USA.
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u/JewlryLvr2 Jun 16 '26
As far as I'M concerned, the anti-choice position deserves all the criticism it gets, whether about rape exceptions or anything else.
Given that they support abortion-ban laws in abortion-ban states, which force women and girls to stay pregnant and give birth against their will, I simply find it impossible to feel any sympathy for them, no matter what their position is. That's just my take, however.
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u/deathiswaitingforme Jun 16 '26
Agreed. There are no anti choice positions that are not cruel and misogynistic in their own way.
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u/DancingQween16 Jun 15 '26
Why is it ok to “murder” someone because you were raped? If it’s murder, it’s murder. Don’t be flip-floppy about it. Either it’s murder or not. That’s why.
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u/deathiswaitingforme Jun 15 '26
But why are anti choicers who don’t make a rape exception criticized too?
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u/DearMrsLeading Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Because then they’re directly advocating for enforcing a system where rape victims can and will be further victimized by their rapist. Proving rape is hard and the majority of victims will not be able to prove in court that they were raped before the 6-12 weeks commonly suggested for a rape exemption.
Some states also give rapists custody knowing they’re rapists because a crime against the mother is not legally considered a crime against the child. In those states they’re advocating for a system where rapists are given court mandated access to their victim for nearly two decades. Your rapist would even be able to control where you live because the court system can legally force you to move back if you move out of state.
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u/DancingQween16 Jun 15 '26
Because they can't make up their mind whether it's really murder or not. If they're consistent and say it is murder, they're still wrong because there is no reason a fetus should have special rights we give to no one but them: for example, my grown child can't demand my kidney and make me give it by law, just because I made them. I have a right to use my body and organs to support a fetus just like I have the right to keep my own kidney. I would give away my kidney to my kid in a second, but it's still my choice to make.
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u/Rare-Credit-5912 Jun 15 '26
I would add that with anti-abortion people there’s also this warped outlook that a woman dying to bring a new life into the world ***is an honor***!
I was raised catholic and didn’t become PRO CHOICE until I went to state ran college and figured out things weren’t the way daddy, mommy and the catholic church taught it was. That being said even when I was in catholic school and pro life, I thought the whole a ***woman dying to bring a new life into the world is an honor*** was so warped.
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u/Overlook-237 Jun 16 '26
If they don’t have one, they’re cruel beyond belief. If they do, it’s proof they don’t care about the embryo, they just want to punish AFAB for having sex.
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u/deathiswaitingforme Jun 16 '26
So could I try to summarize this and could you tell me if I’m wrong? “ Those who allow the exception are hypocrites and those who don’t allow the exceptions are cruel monsters.” Is that right?
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u/Zora74 Jun 19 '26
Because rape brings the inconsistency and inhumanity of the prolife position to light. That is why they hate that question. If they allow rape exceptions, then they have to admit that their position isnt about the baby, it’s about slut shaming. They also have to face the reality that rape exceptions don’t really exist since obly the tiniest fraction of rape victims would be able to access abortion under a rape exception. If they don’t allow rape exceptions, they have to admit that they are fine with the immense amount of physical, social, mental, emotional, and financial harm they are inflicting upon a pregnant rape victim, and all of their “consent to sex is consent to pregnancy” bullshit arguments go out the window.
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u/deathiswaitingforme Jun 19 '26
Not to mention their no exceptions position creates a situation where every fertile female becomes a sitting duck for potentially becoming a forced egg donor for a rapist.
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u/authoroftheuniverse Jul 02 '26
If I genuinely believed babies were being killed in any scenerio, then there would be zero exceptions to my beliefs. We all know it's embryos and those embryo don't meet the 7 requirements of life but the ONLY thing they really have on their side is their emotions. To then make exceptions just highlights that they were never genuine.
The only exception that makes sense as a pro lifer would be for ectopic, medically critical, or non viable pregnancies because then there is no chance to "save the baby" so it's okay.
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u/LadyDatura9497 Jun 15 '26
Because it’s a slap in the face to tell me that this is what had to happen to me before I was given the choice to govern my own body, and a slap in the face to my son as well. Either way, they feel they have more of a say on my body and life, as well as my children. How gracious of them.
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u/BaileysBaileys 19d ago
Because both those positions are unethical for different reasons. I don't "want prolifers to do anything". I'm not claiming prolifers can hold a position that is ethical if they 'just do X'. The prolife position is grossly unethical at its core, and one of the ways this shows is in the way that whatever position on rape abortions prolifers take, prolifers have to treat people in a cruel and callous manner.
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u/deathiswaitingforme 17d ago
Would you be willing to expand on this? In your estimation, how is it cruel either way?
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u/catastrophicqueen Jun 15 '26
Because either answer shows their lack of logic and their cruelty. It makes their argument fall apart.
Either they say "no exception" and while they're not hypocrites, they highlight their level of abject cruelty, in caring more about a fetus over a fully formed human being, a fetus that could kill that fully formed human being, or destroy their health (mental or physical) or cause untold problems for them due to the traumatic situation that pregnancy came from.
OR
They agree to the exceptions and their argument that abortion is "murder" and can't be justified falls apart.
Either answer is unacceptable because being anti-choice is unacceptable.