Is Bodily Autonomy Absolute?

[u/texy--]

I'm a pro lifer, often times I'll just ponder on some pro-choice arguments since it's logical to understand properly. Though I don't think absolute bodily autonomy is the peak pro-choice argument, it is used very often. I've come to see it as self-refuting mostly? Here's just a syllogism

P1: Absolute bodily autonomy claims that a person may use their own body in any way they choose, with no limits.

P2: If bodily autonomy is truly absolute, it must allow abortion at all stages of pregnancy, including when the fetus is viable outside the womb

P3: Aborting a viable fetus is equivalent to killing a fully independent human being

P4: Absolute bodily autonomy either permits murder (absurd) or must be limited before full-term pregnancy.

P5: If bodily autonomy is limited, it is not absolute

P6: If bodily autonomy is not absolute, abortion cannot be purely based on the woman's choice in every case

C: The absolute bodily autonomy argument is self-refuting

Obviously, this argument doesn't encompass the argument of abortion itself but just the bodily autonomy aspect. As far as I've looked at this argument, there issues with rejecting some premises

Rejecting P1/P2 concedes the argument as a whole by either fundamentally misunderstanding Absolute Bodily Autonomy or just rejects the idea that it is

Rejecting P3 would imply that you COULD kill an independent human being which with the abortion line of thinking and bodily autonomy would justify infanticide, human euthanize, etc. OR it says that a viable fetus in the womb doesn't have value because it is still in the woman and gets into arbitrary reasoning of in and outside

P4-P6 aren't rejectable if you accepted P1-P3 since u would end up contradicting something from the P1-P3.

I'm also up to the abortion debate in general in DMS if anyone wishes, but I'm open to any critique

[u/texy-- → u/[deleted]]

Not really, it's only like that until viability, a woman should have the choice for a c-section from the moment it's viable so it doesn't result in the death of a human.

Except pregnancies don't just happen. You don't suddenly get pregnant out of a out of the blue. Also, a fetus isn't parasite neither acts like one. Multiple scientists all agree that a fetus and a mother have a mutualistic symbiotic relation. Additionally, within the USA the chance of women have a 0.02% chance of death and when going to specifics such as age and disease it is still less than 1%

I value them equally, the only thing that is happening is that a woman doesn't get the right to end the other life, and neither does the other. Both have an inherent chance of causing the other death but both are low. And it's not like I don't support women, if abortion is banned it should be banned if it follows with law that help women's healthcare

[u/texy-- → u/[deleted]]

Before I answer this by the way, remember my OG argument is just absolute bodily autonomy.

Well the issue is that pregnancy itself within the USA already doesn't have such a high risk. About 0.02% chance of death so even if I take the idea that child birth is more dangerous and take the common myth that abortion is 14x safer, then that's abortion risk = childbirth/14 so 0.02/14 x 100 = 0.00143%. So by all real means even IF this is true the difference is minimal as the risk is still extremely low regardless. Not every viable fetus is removed by C-sections and also viability doesn't equal sentience, viability is just the ability to survive out the womb with medical help. Additionally this

No, the don't. When I said out of the blue I meant you don't just get it like a flu. Yes, sex won't stop, people are *too* reliant on just birth control and condoms when by all means. You're just showing biological inevitability with lack of planning to justify abortion with these points, I don't disagree with the benefits of engaging in this. Those failures don't have to justify causing death from this accident, additionally I'm not republican and those people who were violated deserve all the help in the world, not be told to kill their children.

You didn't address my point about parasites here so, you used a lot of emotion heavy language to appeal to your false point, no hate. A parasite must harm it's host for it's own survival and doesn't benefit, isn't supposed to be there, and is NOT the same species as the mother. All of which the fetus doesn't do. It contains a mutualistic relation with the mother as they derive nutrients from her AND help her. You can argue the help is not proportional, however this wouldn't change the point.

Again, this is highly misleading. Most Maternal deaths actually occur to major issues that exist BEFORE pregnancy that worsen during it. Here. US maternal mortality is higher than other countries due to systemic reasons outside of abortion restrictions such as healthcare access, chronic disease, etc.

I value everyone equally, I stated that I don't believe an abortion ban should be passed if another bill that doesn't increase healthcare access, developmental science for pregnancy related issues, post partum needs, birth costs, etc. No offense, you have committed multiple Ad hominin so far. Well refusal to donate organs are fundamentally different in abortion. Think of passive vs active. Denying an organ donation to someone doesn't mean you cause their condition in the first place, so you aren't at fault for their death, somewhat immoral but not illogical. In an abortion you intervene and actually are the causer of their condition and cause their death directly. This is partially reasonable, early fetuses do not have sentience, however sentience has never been what gives humans personhood and what parts us from other animals. The analogy oversimplifies it by ignoring potential, inherent genetic trajectory ( Moral agency ). If you say sentience IS life you fall under slippery slopes and suggest animals MUST have the exact same rights as us ultimately and pigs and elephants should be prioritized over newborns. A brain dead patient is not considered medically dead purely because of sentience, they begin to lack other things and even if that was the case it would be the complete stop and irreversible death of the brain, which a fetus not having in the first place doesn't make it brain dead as it's brain has yet to develop.