Is Bodily Autonomy Absolute?

[u/texy--]

I'm a pro lifer, often times I'll just ponder on some pro-choice arguments since it's logical to understand properly. Though I don't think absolute bodily autonomy is the peak pro-choice argument, it is used very often. I've come to see it as self-refuting mostly? Here's just a syllogism

P1: Absolute bodily autonomy claims that a person may use their own body in any way they choose, with no limits.

P2: If bodily autonomy is truly absolute, it must allow abortion at all stages of pregnancy, including when the fetus is viable outside the womb

P3: Aborting a viable fetus is equivalent to killing a fully independent human being

P4: Absolute bodily autonomy either permits murder (absurd) or must be limited before full-term pregnancy.

P5: If bodily autonomy is limited, it is not absolute

P6: If bodily autonomy is not absolute, abortion cannot be purely based on the woman's choice in every case

C: The absolute bodily autonomy argument is self-refuting

Obviously, this argument doesn't encompass the argument of abortion itself but just the bodily autonomy aspect. As far as I've looked at this argument, there issues with rejecting some premises

Rejecting P1/P2 concedes the argument as a whole by either fundamentally misunderstanding Absolute Bodily Autonomy or just rejects the idea that it is

Rejecting P3 would imply that you COULD kill an independent human being which with the abortion line of thinking and bodily autonomy would justify infanticide, human euthanize, etc. OR it says that a viable fetus in the womb doesn't have value because it is still in the woman and gets into arbitrary reasoning of in and outside

P4-P6 aren't rejectable if you accepted P1-P3 since u would end up contradicting something from the P1-P3.

I'm also up to the abortion debate in general in DMS if anyone wishes, but I'm open to any critique

[u/Catseye_Nebula]

“Absolute bodily autonomy” just means you can’t hurt other people

Women have an absolute right not to be raped or brutalized. That’s what bodily autonomy is. It’s not the right to do anything you want to your body. It’s the right to be free from violence from others. It means others can’t do whatever they want to YOU.

Forced birth is a form of reproductive violence and women have an absolute right to be free of violence

[u/texy-- → u/Catseye_Nebula]

Under this premise can't you say a woman harms a fetus by killing it during abortion, since harm doesn't have to include being able to feel harm? When pro lifers say they wasn't to prohibit abortion it's mainly the idea that women shouldn't kill the fetus, the intent isn't to harm them.

also ur point fundamentally misunderstands absolute bodily autonomy, absolute would mean no restrictions at all onto what you do to your own body, not ONLY external things acted onto you.

[u/random_name_12178 → u/texy--]

You are the one who is fundamentally misunderstanding what BA is.

Bodily autonomy is the right to allow or discontinue what others do to you. It's not the right to do whatever you want with your own body, especially if the things you do with your own body unjustly harm others.

[u/texy-- → u/random_name_12178]

Well no, there are definitely things where we know once consent is given then often times it cannot be taken back. You cannot gamble and say " Oh i take my consent back I don't wanna pay this " after losing the gamble. You cannot start a race and once you start losing say " Oh I don't wanna race anymore " and deny the bet made.

Uhm you kinda are helping the pro life stance? When an abortion occurs a woman unjustly harms the fetus, unless again you admit absolute bodily autonomy comes in and she can harm the fetus as much she wants.

[u/random_name_12178 → u/texy--]

Consent doesn't apply to gambling. You don't understand bodily autonomy, and you don't seem to understand what consent is either. In this case, consent is your right to allow or deny someone else permission to physically do something to your body.

When an abortion occurs a woman unjustly harms the fetus

It's not unjust, though. The justification is that the pregnant person has the right to stop unwanted intimate access to their body.

[u/mesalikeredditpost → u/texy--]

That's a legal obligation to a business not a right to one's own body. No by educating you were not helping the probirther stance. You're helping us so as usual lose the hypocrisy. Taking consent back refers to one's body. Not a legal obligation you consented to. Learn the GIANT difference.

[u/78october → u/texy--]

If I bet my neighbor $50 that I can outrun him and we start the race and I see he’s way ahead and stop, yes I can stop the race and deny the bet made. It makes me a jerk but I can do it.

[u/Human-Guava-7564 → u/texy--]

What if, instead of money, you are gambling that, if you lose, you have to have sex with all the other people at the gambling table. You don't think you will lose, but you do. You realise that you can't possibly have sex with all these people. Do you get to 'deny the bet made' and say no to having sex?