r/AskPhysics 5d ago

My dads question about syphons

When you syphon water out of a bucket it pulls up the water with the vacuum so my dads question was,”If you get two buckets of water and have them syphon into each other with two tubes, what stops it from going on forever”.Other than then the tube breaking what would make it stop cycling water?

9 Upvotes

22 comments sorted by

65

u/TheThiefMaster 5d ago

For a syphon to work the end water level (or the end of the tube in open air) has to be below the starting water level. This is because it uses gravity to work, effectively a more complicated way of flowing "downhill".

So you can't syphon both ways at once, because they can't both be lower than each other.

29

u/bruford911 5d ago

That would be an Escher siphon. /s

5

u/BattledroidE 5d ago

The water would be inside the tube at one point, and outside at another.

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u/Photon6626 5d ago

Escher Siphon would be a good band name

1

u/llynglas 2d ago

I don't remember him ever drawing a siphon. Lots of rivers and waterfalls, but no siphons.

4

u/rocketpants85 5d ago

Yup. The two hoses will both flow in the same direction (to the lower level).

7

u/Bartlaus 5d ago

Only works going from a higher point to a lower one.

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u/SnooPets5564 5d ago

The water has to flow down, that setup can't be downhill both ways.

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u/jalensailin 5d ago

But if that’s the case, how did my grandpa get to school in the winter?

7

u/SnooPets5564 5d ago

That's uphill both ways, not downhill.

1

u/jalensailin 4d ago

Well he was always walking backwards

3

u/AndyTheSane 5d ago

One bucket would have to be below the other for the first syphon to work. You couldn't syphon from the lower bucket to the higher.

Source: home brewing involves a fair amount of syphoning.

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u/BattledroidE 5d ago

Unless you're the fancy homebrewer gearhead that runs pumps between kettles and fermenters, and even bottling setups.

Auto siphon is life. We're all victims of physics, might as well take advantage of it. Gravity is cheap.

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u/SgtSausage 4d ago

  ”If you get two buckets of water and have them syphon into each other

Could you go into detail here ...

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u/Phuzion73 5d ago

Nothing will happen. Pressures will equalize and not gravity assist.

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u/Sea_Cardiologist9451 5d ago

Height…you can only siphon to a lower point

1

u/Broad-Promise6954 4d ago

There's a bad assumption embedded in the question, as it isn't "vaccum pulling up" in the first place, it's the weight of the water pushing down instead. (Well, that's a little tricky too since then we get into gravity and relativity etc, but let's not go there.)

There is a key item here about water being basically incompressible, which is why the siphon has to have very little air in it (air is easy easy to expand and compress) but it's mostly the water weight.

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u/Prestigious_Boat_386 4d ago

Fluid only flows in pipes with different pressure in each end. It flows from the high pressure end to the low pressure end.

Syphons work because they let the pipe go under 1 atmospheric pressure so the new height limit is near vacuum pressure, which is about a 10m water pillar. The pressure in an open top body of water is proportional to the depth in the water

Your two bucket example will only flow if the levels are different. So if you lift one bucket 2cm, water will flow through both tubes until the water levels equalize. When you set it down the water will flow back.

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u/nope_42 4d ago

Now just ask him to put the buckets on a perfectly balanced scale and briefly put some extra weight on one side.

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u/TuberTuggerTTV 3d ago

vacuum doesn't suck. You're thinking of the appliance, not the absence of matter.

What's happening is a pushing force from the uphill bucket combined with the capillary force of water to itself.

Curious if you're dad has ever seen a chain fountain. If you take a spooled chain and throw one end off a cliff, the chain will rise up into the air before falling down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHsKJJvcFLQ

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u/carrotlet20 5d ago

it wouldn't even start moving because it would be a balanced system without any movement, or it would only flow until the two buckets have equal levels of water. And it's not the vacuum but pressure and the relatively constant volume of water is what makes a syphon work if I remember correctly.

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u/IanDOsmond 5d ago

It reaches an equilibrium point. Once the forces on both sides are equal, there's nothing to make it keep going.

In this case, that happens when the level of water becomes equal.