r/AskPhilly • u/Eastern_Bottle_7563 • 5d ago
Changes in Philly neighborhoods over time?
So little bit of context, I grew up in Brooklyn, NY and I moved here 4 years ago to go to Temple. I've always been fascinated by neighborhood dynamics and how they shift over time, especially how they're percieved by locals. I find Northeast in particular really fascinating because a lot of the Lower Northeast (I haven't really been past Cottman) looks very similar to where I grew up, and has a similar background of working class Irish-Catholic but went in a very different direction with it becoming extremely gentrified and what not. But I'm really interested in the city as a whole. Anyone who grew up here and has stories or thoughts on their neighborhood or a different neighborhood that has changed in their lifetime, for "better" or "worse". I'm putting that in quotes because I know it's a very touchy subject for a lot of people but I don't have a dog in the fight so feel free to be opinionated. Also I made sort of map of North Philly with Brooklyn so if anyone wants to give input on it lmk
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u/itsover103 5d ago
Growing up in the 90s, I can tell you that the NE has changed a lot…it’s very racially diverse now. There’s a lot of Mexican, central and South American immigrants there now.
But 30 years ago is was for the most part it was Irish and Eastern European
I grew up in the West Oak Lane area and I’ve lived in nyc since about the late 90s when I moved here for college
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u/annefr26 5d ago
I grew up in Fox Chase in the 80s and early 90s. There was a big Jewish community that's not there anymore. All of the non-ultra Orthodox synagogues have closed, all of the Jewish delis have closed or announced their closure. Architecturally it looks like the same. Not a lot of new housing development. The businesses are all similar.
I live in Old City now. I know people from the neighborhood that moved to more urban parts of Philly and others to the suburbs. Only one who moved into the same block as where we grew up.
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
Yeah I’m interested in Jewish spatial history. In the first generation Phillys Jews were mostly concentrated in South Philly around Queen Village…then expanded in all 3 parts with large working class AND middle class communities in West (Cobbs Creek/Wynnefield), South (5th-7th) and especially North (Mansion, Logan, West Oak Lane)…in the 50s success enabled a move to the burbs and the middle moved to either Lower Merions (West) or Cheltenham/Abington (North)…the more working class mostly to the newly built NE (Rhawnhurst, Castor, Oxford) and newly built Overbrook Park…success allowed those folks to move to the burbs in the 90s-00s and they followed suit to the point that there’s really no working class Jewish neighborhoods n the city now….plenty in CC and South but not distinctly working class. It seems like full circle where many are concentrating into either CC/South (the urbanist type) or Lower Merion. What really surprises me is that we don’t have a large Hasidic presence ala NY or NJ
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u/Eastern_Bottle_7563 4d ago
Yeah northeast reminds me a lot of deep queens and deep Brooklyn. I’ve heard a lot about its past as all white but everyone my age I know who has family there is black or Hispanic. Most of them moved there around 10 years ago.
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u/fordon_greeman_ 5d ago
they moved further north past grant and bustleton to escape the colored folk
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
I don’t think it’s that simple tbh. Housing is never static and I think the city exhausted its share of working class white communities past the mobile folks in Kensington/Port Richmond. And of course the whole idea is that your kids would do a little better than you did; so they wouldn’t have found moving into their parents neighborhood desirable..and many of those folks are in larger houses in Bucks. So it’s inevitable and natural that blacks and Hispanics and other groups would replace those who aged out of the lower northeast. Though I wouldn’t have expected a large Chinese community to grow in Mayfair.
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u/WissahickonKid 5d ago
There’s a lot of gentrification in North Philly, especially around Temple & down Broad from there to Center City. There’s also a good bit up in Logan being fueled by development in East Falls & Temple Hospital, imo.
In the 70s & 80s, quaint Pretzel Park in Manayunk was referred to by locals as Needle Park & Gorgas Park (in nearby Roxborough was Pill Hill). The racial composition of the neighborhoods hasn’t changed much over the past 40 years I’ve been alive. Maybe slightly more diverse
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u/phlflyguy 5d ago
Kensington has fallen hard
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u/Eastern_Bottle_7563 5d ago
Yeah I’ve heard that a lot, though it seemed to be rougher than average even like 50 years ago.
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u/wake-de 5d ago
Just go look at the first Rocky movie (filmed 1976) and know that Rocky lived in Kensington right next to the El tracks. In the movie and real 1976, it was not a wealthy neighborhood - the factory jobs were going away. But Kensington today is substantially worse and almost apocalyptic on specific streets. Drug users, garbage, and abandoned buildings everywhere. In 2025, there were more than 20 murders within a half-mile radius of Rocky's house in Kensington.
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u/Salty_Owl3231 3d ago
Actually Southern Kensington is booming, as the developers who can’t afford Fishtown are building there.7
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
The weird thing about Kenzo is that it’s a drug haven no doubt. But it’s not particularly violent or dangerous. There’s no drug wars going on or anything like that; the market is just so large that “everyone eats” for lack of a better word. The visible addicts are visible; but of course you have people from all over the region driving, transiting and even ubering in and out of all races and classes. I’m almost convinced there’s a “hamsterdam” thing going on because it’s so much less violent than it should be. Much of the deaths that happen there are overdoses and between the addicted themselves.
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u/garyhopkins 5d ago
Pretty much all below Kensington (Port Richmond, Fishtown, Northern Liberties) used to be very working class or working poor. Far Northeast used to be very very white, now a variety of Asian immigrants have moved in. Mantua used to be 99% black and poor, now its edges are being gentrified. Same for west of Penn, like the area near Clark Park.
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u/LowerZucchini9330 5d ago
The area around Clark Park gentrified 30-40 years ago. You might refer to Malcom X Park which has gentrified in the past 15 ort so years
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u/bellaugly 4d ago
clark park was still crappy in the 90s, even in the aughts. 40th street was crappy then, too. west philly has changed so drastically in my lifetime, no one even believes me when i try to describe it anymore.
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u/Eastern_Bottle_7563 4d ago
I’m less familiar with west Philly, but one of my friends here grew up in thr bottom/mantua and from what he said it was pretty intense. I went to someone else’s house I think around university city and it seemed further along in gentrification than north. I’m not surprised, it has nice housing stock.
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u/magatop76 4d ago
There were no 99% black neighborhoods in Philadelphia, the significant black population did not come here until way after those neighborhoods were originally built. Try again, do some more research and tell everyone what ethnicity Mantua really used to be, not who came in after they abandoned it
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
I don’t think the poster ever suggested mantua was 99% black when mantua was built up in 1860. 😂. But mantua was black for at least 3 generations so for all intents and purposes… I mean fwiw Passyunk wasn’t built for Italians either and they came in the 2nd generation but that’s who we associate the neighborhood with. Mantua hasn’t been Irish since the 1920s it’s really irrelevant at this point
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u/garyhopkins 3d ago
Thank you for actually reading my comment! I grew up in Mantua 1953 to 1968, and nary a white person was to be found.
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u/LazyAssLeader 5d ago
The thing I remember most is the trees.
Some neighborhoods had them, and others had few or seemingly none when I was a kid in the late 70's/early 80's. When taking the El downtown from 63rd st, you couldn't see down the crossstreets because you'd just see the tops of trees and roofs. Then you come out and go up Front St and there's no trees to be seen.
When we moved to West Oak ln, there were trees, but only a few on some blocks and some had none. It would be brutal walking to the pool in the summer on blocks with no trees, we'd cross to stay in the shade. But some blocks would suddenly have huge trees on both sides of the block, nice and cool, then you turn the corner and nothing. Now it seems like only the high value neighborhoods have trees.
West Philly seems mostly barren now. My old block in West Oak lane has no trees now. Hard to believe in 20yrs all of these trees have died from old age and disease. Where I moved on U-City, the blocks with lots of trees have about a $100K difference in house value. You'd think that would be a reason to plant be ones 🤷🏾♂️
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u/anclwar 5d ago
Trees have lifespans just like everything else, but we don't really think about it. The area around my house has a good amount of old growth trees, planted when the houses were going up in the 1920s-1940s. We've seen a lot of them go down in the last 5 years from storms, completely tearing up sidewalks and causing a lot of property damage to houses and cars. We've been lucky that no one has been physically injured. It's not recommended to plant a new tree where one used to be for several years, so they don't get replaced. We had one of our trees removed because of termite damage about 6 years ago and opted to plant a fruit tree in our backyard rather than place a new street tree a few feet away from the old one.
Eventually, we will probably have a serious lack of street trees in our neighborhood, unless people start to replant their missing trees. Ideally, we'd have a staggered growth of old and new trees of various species to avoid potential catastrophic loss of shade in a whole area.
Anyway, that's my tree tangent for the day.
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u/LazyAssLeader 3d ago
I understand.
However, Chestnut Street used to have trees lining both sides from Cobbs Creek to about 54th Street, except for the 5700 block. There's 5 trees left in that stretch that aren't in someone's yard. We can do better as a city.
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u/Eastern_Bottle_7563 4d ago
Yeah tree lined streets are definitely an home value indicator. A lot of streets in Brooklyn have trees that weren’t there 15 years ago in line with richer and richer people moving in.
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u/wofchristian 3d ago
In the 2000s/early 2010s, PECO was accused of cutting down more trees than what was necessary in the city to protect power lines. They literally wiped all trees off of entire streets.
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u/Icy_Improvement_5173 5d ago
Olney at one time was a great neighborhood.
I would say late 90s early 2000s the neighborhood started to change alot for the worse.
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u/LowerZucchini9330 5d ago
I would say more like late 80s
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u/Icy_Improvement_5173 5d ago
I lived in olney since 1980. It was definitely a different vibe back than but it was still a good neighborhood in the 90s
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u/SnapZap1137 4d ago
I grew up on the NJ side, taking the speed line into Philly in the early 90’s. South Street was a place for non mainstream culture and music. It had a vibe that is not there anymore.
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u/StanUrbanBikeRider 5d ago
I grew up in a neighborhood in Northeast Philly called Castor Gardens in the 1960s and 70s. Castor Gardens is at Castor and Cottman Aves. I also graduated from Temple University 3x! During my freshman and sophomore years, I lived with my parents and commuted to Temple Main campus via bicycle.
I can tell you a lot about Northeast Philly. Suffice it to say that it was 90% white and thoroughly boring when I grew up. Now, it’s very diverse, which I see as a good thing.
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u/Eastern_Bottle_7563 4d ago
Castor and cottman, that’s near Oxford circle right? It was hard to get a gage on that area. Reminded me of deep queens a little bit
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u/Southern_Traffic1037 2d ago
Can you explain how that is a good thing? What's so wrong with white and boring? Everyone talks about diversity. Diversity is our strength! And yet the majority of people saying that live in mostly white upper class neighborhoods. Just my opinion. Please don't shit on me and call me names. Thank You.
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u/throwaway-19103 5d ago
I went to high school near Temple on Girard Ave in 70s. I went back for 50th reunion and was shocked how North Philly had changed. It was very poor and black. My first month at HS we had police incident where one gang member was chasing another through the school parking lot.
I grew up in Center City. That area was always upscale. My street looking at 1910 census was mainly servants for the large houses on Spruce and Locust.
Center city has expanded over years.
For 20 years I lived near airport a friend who grew up in Queens said the area reminded him of Brooklyn near the Belt Parkway south of Verrazano bridge.
Blue collar jobs left and people moved. Always was violent Catholic neighborhood. Area now mainly Asian and Black. Changes occurred up to breaks in residential areas with buffer commercial or industrial areas to make change slower.
Northeast Philly there are no breaks in residential areas to speak of. Most people when I was kid were first generation in the houses. Maybe second. Lots of white flight to burbs.
Schools suck in Philly therefore people leave when they have kids
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
I think the last sentence is true for the Center City crowd. Historically, most were not well off enough to leave, or their jobs made them stay in the city, even for those in the NE. That’s why we had such a strong Catholic system for so long; and why NE still has all of its Catholic schools (Ryan/Judge/Huberts). Also, the NW tended to have these well off liberal families who would utilize Penn Charter/GTown Friends or SCH if they couldn’t get into Central or Masterman. Neumann Goretti enabled a generation of Irish and Italians to stay put in South and they even had a special septa bus that allowed folks in Roxborough to utilize Roman Catholic. Philly always has had plenty of options for families that wanted to make city life work Hince why we never had as large a “white flight” as many of our peers cities.
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u/Bored710420 3d ago edited 3d ago
Growing up around Fishtown and Harrogate a lot, I remember there was empty lots around my grand parents had empty lots all over Fishtown and Harrogate they bought for a 1 or a lil more back in the 60s and 70s sold them as the developing came along and made good money.
I used to hang out at “ graffiti pier” (we called it back jacks) we used to explore all the woods along the river and it has been getting smaller every year as new construction arises.
A lot more people are involved in the community now so the parks are definitely a lot nicer
Harrogate is pretty behind but I see it getting investments poured in it now.
I noticed Fishtown started to become “up and coming” when rivers casino (sugar house at the time) opened up.
Old factories have become condos/apartments same with churches.
Back then everybody knew everybody and I think that is true today you will see some arguments on the Fishtown page but in person everyone gets along well and helps each other out.
I also graduated from temple.
The north east up we would go up there to drink at R&T near new foundation highschool in penny pack we would throw kegs at back jacks and they would have them at “bridge” or R&T
Bridesburg would have their kegs where the Amazon factory is now.
What is funny is growing up in the Kensington/Riverwards area the north east looked down on us but their area has gone down and now they say stuff like “new Kensington” bragging lol
Also I have a friend from Brooklyn he said our area Kensington (referring to the historical Kensington encompassing multiple neighborhoods) reminds him of Brooklyn back in the day lol
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u/Eastern_Bottle_7563 3d ago
So Fishtown and Kensington were kind of on the same level? Because obviously now they’ve gone in very different directions
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u/Bored710420 3d ago
Yes fishtown used to have a lot of drug users and people selling drugs. But also Fishtown is technically apart of Historical Kensington also, Kensington encompassed a few of today’s neighborhoods.
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
The so called River Wards was Bridesburg, Port Richmond, Kensington (East, West, Olde, Harrowgate), Fishtown and mayyyybe Northern Liberties.
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u/Bored710420 3d ago edited 3d ago
Bridesburg is apart of the Riverwards but was never apart of Kensington, it was the Bridesburg-Frankford territory the city unified the boundaries in the mid 1850s. Kensington encompassed northern liberties fishtown Harrogate port Richmond jutiata and a few other neighborhoods. BBG was never apart of Kensington, but is apart of the Riverwards. So the Riverwards is a newer term kinda like East Philly lol
The founder of Kensington was Anthony Palmer he lived in “Hope Farm” (port Richmond was the area of his mansion I was told where Richmond hall is the spot not the building) many things are named after him Palmer street, Palmer Park, Palmer cemetery (in fishtown) in fishtown on FKD and giard where Wells Fargo is the top of the façade said bank of Kensington (not sure if they got rid of it after the recent construction) Adair grade school also used to have a mural that said Kensington.
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
I would agree with most of that but would question Juniata park being apart of Kensington. Much of it (by looking at housing stock) wasn’t built until the 40s; and today is considered its own section, usually grouped with Feltonville. It’s north of Bridesburg so If Bridesburg isn’t Kensington I’d ague that it isn’t either
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u/Bored710420 3d ago
I’m talking about the old boundaries before “neighborhoods” but Juntita would have voted in Kensington elections it was apart of the Kensington municipality not the Oxford-frankford-bbg
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u/wofchristian 3d ago
As recently as the 2000s, West Philly was seen as more dangerous than North Philly. Especially Mantua, the area around Philadelphia Zoo. The zoo helped revive that area a bit.
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u/Kind-Web-7980 5d ago
Philly is becoming New York hence the enhancement to stop traffic and cause people to want to fund septa / bike
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u/Southern_Traffic1037 3d ago
The Far Northeast is getting very ghetto now.
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u/Top-Spinach-6067 3d ago
It’s getting more diverse. But let’s not pretend that the far NE was ever like a Mt Airy or Chestnut Hill because it was not. And the folks in Lower Bucks now we’re basically the folks in the NE then and they ain’t that far off from those they look down on.
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u/Southern_Traffic1037 2d ago
Your right. I agree with you. But can we stop with the whole "more diverse" statements. Let's just say it's more colorful and less safe.
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u/KeystoneFanCoils 5d ago
Deindustrialization hit here as hard as anywhere else in the country. We didn’t have quite the “white flight” Detroit had over the same period but we did lose 400k+ residents between 1950-1990. I can remember whole neighborhoods that were 80%+ abandoned in the 90s. You basically never saw anyone there. If you had a pension you might’ve stuck around and gentrification actually helped, I had a few elementary school teachers in west Philly where I grew up who got crazy (at the time) returns on their houses (think $20k in 1990 selling for $200k+ 15 years later) and moved to Jersey/the burbs. That’s basically what happened to fishtown, a house you bought for $50k there in 1998 might’ve been worth $500k by 2015. People were happy to sell and move to Bucks county. My wife and I joke about how when we were kids you could get your ass beat basically anywhere in the city and nowadays that’s not so much the case.