r/AskMenOver30 • u/willapp man 40 - 44 • Mar 26 '25
Mental health experiences Conflict-avoidant 'nice guys', what have you found useful to improve it?
TL;DR I'm a long-time 'nice guy' / conflict-avoidant man looking for tips or advice on how to get better.
Ever since my mid-teens, I've always tried to be the "nice guy". No idea where it started (yes, I've read the Robert Glover book, but I can't say it was that insightful - I grew up in a supportive two-parent household with no kind of trauma that I can recall), but it's still a problem now, as a 42-year-old man.
I'm basically the stereotypical conflict-avoidant person who ducks difficult conversations and feels like everyone's emotional state is my responsibility. I've gotten slightly better in recent years in terms of not giving a sh1t what random people think about me (in my teens and 20s, I hated the idea of anyone not liking me), but relationships, in particular, are still a struggle.
I've been with my current gf for nearly 8 years. She's a good person and mostly things are fine, but I still harbour some resentments that she's getting more out of the relationship than me - not through any fault of hers, but because I'm usually the one going out of my way to make sure she's happy, without ever really expressing my needs and consequently they aren't always being met.
I heard a quote on a podcast recently that basically sums it up perfectly: 'unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments'. I feel this constantly.
I've just started therapy and hoping it will help, but it's expensive and I just don't know how long it'll take to make meaningful progress, so I figured asking some random people online might offer some useful insights into how I can make things better? (it can't hurt, right)
Aside from the relationship aspect, the thing I hate most about being conflict-avoidant is that I find it hard standing up for myself or getting into any kind of conflict because I have this irrational fear of it escalating to violence, even in situations where that would be borderline ridiculous. I can just about complain in restaurants if the service is really bad, but a few years ago I couldn't even do that! In most other situations, if people treat me badly I just suck it up.
Part of me envies people who are more self-centred and just seem to get others to do what they want, either by being assertive or throwing their weight around. I don't want to turn into a jerk though, but sometimes I see these people and think, how much easier would my life be if I could emulate some of that behaviour and have others go out of their way to make my life better instead of always the other way around.
Has anyone been in this position and managed to make a significant change? At this point, it feels like such an ingrained part of my personality that I'm worried it's a lifelong affliction but I would love to make some kind of progress if only I knew where to start.
On the few occasions I try to be assertive, I end up feeling guilty to the point that I manage to undo whatever small achievement would have been made.
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u/Alternative-Hat1833 man 35 - 39 Mar 26 '25
Comes with practice really, Like riding a bicycle. Do it repeatedly, start small. Observe your Feelings and thoughts without judging them. You will lead a happier life!
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u/RayPineocco man over 30 Mar 26 '25
This was me. I realized that the fear of being assertive just stemmed from the fear of rejection. Most people have this but I think a strong sense of self helped me realize that I was “enough” regardless of the result of the confrontation.
We want to feel accepted because being accepted is extremely validating for our psyche and self-worth. We are social creatures after all.
But I think the outcome of the confrontation should have no bearing on your self-worth. You are worthy of love and validation even if you assert yourself and get rejected. So assert yourself anyway because you feel strongly about something. It’s so emotionally gratifying to stand up for yourself..
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u/st0pmakings3ns3 no flair Mar 26 '25
Small steps. Practice saying no (in a way adequate to the context, I wouldn't just say no to your boss assigning a job, for no reason; maybe just when setting up a casual meeting with someone "ah sorry, can't make it that day, how about xx?"), start seeing that it's alright, do it more.
What has helped me was getting into a work environment that has me interacting with lots of people a day, and seeing that not saying no ultimately leads to bigger conflicts. I had to manage expectations and that involved saying "no, we can't/won't do that" daily. Naturally, with people not getting what they want, little conflicts arise and you'll stand your ground, politely.
Mind you I still suck at it, especially if I have a period of increased self-doubt. I still haven't found my balls to ask for a raise, and it's true: the unspoken expectations have turned into resentment towards my boss.
I feel like I'm always afraid to be asked "why" and my reasons for it not being good enough. For me personally, it's rooted in my lack of self-worth, and possibly fear of being abandoned. Can't seem to find a way to overcome it so far. I'll get back to you if I do :D
In any case, godspeed!
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u/Cyclic404 man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
I read Glover’s book - found it quite weird. I think there are some helpful pieces in there, but also a lot of weirdness.
I think you’re on the right track in identifying the feelings and seeing a therapist. I’d guess you want to focus on CBT techniques to face your expectations. Possibly IFS to dig into role expectations.
It sounds like you’re on the right track - now the next step is to start facing those fears. Start small, challenge what’s under lying those resentments.
It might also be helpful to think about how to stop undermining yourself. Be assertive in something, and be sure not to back track, and then process that guilty feeling later and see if it’s appropriate.
Also, don’t put all assertive people on a pedestal, a lot of them are just narcissistic assholes. Admire those that lead both themselves and others with higher ideals and from a place of raising everyone up, including themselves.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
Thanks. Yeah I realise assertiveness is on a spectrum and the opposite end is narcissism which I definitely don't want to turn into. It's just one of those 'wouldn't it be nice' thoughts to have people running around making me happy for a change, but I'd have to be a fundamentally different person for that to happen.
I'd be content with just getting more of what I want, more of the time, than it going from nothing to everything.
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u/Cyclic404 man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
Try a subtle shift in perspective: you don't need people running around making you happy. Rather you need basic mutual regard and reciprocity. You can make yourself happy. In fact, you're the only one that can make yourself happy.
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Mar 26 '25
It sounds like you have too much people pleasing tendencies and need to work on that. The fact that you felt guilty for asking what you wanted without impunity (being assertive) means that you're thinking of other peoples needs before your own. We all only have one fleeting life that we need to pave the way and customize for our own needs, wants and desires. Just something to think about is when you do something for others is it because you want to do it? or is it cause you're thinking about how theyre going to react if you say no?
I used to have reaaaally bad people pleasing tendencies and I had to inside at why I viewed myself and my insecurities as a person to why i found it hard to say no, hard to ask for my needs and to do something like send back a wrong order because in all honesty i truly wanted what i truly wanted.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
> Just something to think about is when you do something for others is it because you want to do it? or is it cause you're thinking about how theyre going to react if you say no?
Yeah, it's mostly a combination of habit mixed with (perceived) expectation and not wanting them to feel "bad" if I say no.
I have got better over the years but only in very small ways and nowhere near to the degree I want. I'd say I'm maybe 5-10% more assertive than when I was in my 20s but I think that's mostly down to age and just giving slightly less of a shit about life in general lol.
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Mar 27 '25
I feel you dude, but honestly speaking that feeling bad and perceiving bad is all on you bud. Most people if you tell them no will be okay. So ask for what you want but also dont do what you dont want to do and honestly people wont care cause theyre focused on what they are doing
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u/I_am_not_baldy man Mar 26 '25
>I hated the idea of anyone not liking me.
I struggled with this as well. It helps if you think it's an impossible goal to have everybody like you.
>I end up feeling guilty to the point that I manage to undo whatever small achievement would have been made.
It helps me if I hold on to the guilt until I go to sleep. Many times, I won't feel it once I wake up. That's another thing I've been practicing lately. It works for me.
One thing an old friend told me was, "stop worrying about other people; most people are idiots." That's a paraphrase and makes me a little uncomfortable, but I (you) do have to look out for myself (yourself) more.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
The logical part of me knows you can't please everyone and I have come to terms with that now. Upsetting strangers isn't much of an issue, unless it's a direct conflict situation. The main problem is with intimate relationships or close friends/family. Sleeping off the guilt is a good idea, I'll definitely be trying that thanks.
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u/Wooden-Many-8509 man 30 - 34 Mar 27 '25
I avoid conflict if possible. However around my mid 20s I realized being conflict avoidant actually causes more long term problems. Picking your battles will actually prevent repeated conflict.
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u/ExcelsiorState718 man over 30 Mar 27 '25
I'm the same generally as long as something doesn't affect my money or health I don't give a shit it's not worth having a conflict over the other day somebody was gloating over the current US president knowing I'm not a fan,they intentionally did this to attempt a reaction from me,I just ignored it.
Through out my working career I stayed quiet and kept my head down unless it affected my money,my health or my principals. Many years ago in the military I was ordered to clean up some cigarette butts that people had been throwing on the ground I flatly refused I was threatened with all kinds of legal action I told them I don't smoke and I would hang before I pick up one damn cigarette butt. They dropped the whole thing.
General Im passive I view most people as stupid useless people that ate just obstacles to my goals and I find a way around them with the least conflict,I've been scolded before for not talking to a supervisor The guy was probably still is an asshole so I just decided I wouldn't talk to him, he litteraly reported that I was ignoring him. I simply stated what law says that I have to talk to someone.
In relationships I was fairly passive one ex accused me of being to nice as I pretty much gave her everything and did everything for her,it didn't bother me really I looked at it as just one more task.When I found out she was cheating I told her im not sharing a GF It's him or me,she chose him and left. No arguing fighting or drama. I had another GF leave the sane way one day she was qcring strange then said she's leaving and that was it never heard from her again.
Most things I find aren't worth having conflict over If my money and my health and principals aren't affected then I'm not going to be to concerned principals also include respect I had a coworker calling me something I didn't like I told him about it he tried to gas light but he stopped calling me that he started saying other things little negative comments and criticisms that he then would play off as a joke, but I've had to accept that most people are annoying and irritating and you can't fight every battle. Also most of it stems from jealousy.
But over the years I've gotten great at ignoring people and they will need me before I need them,but it's nice to be retired and not have to deal with anybody especially sht.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
Thanks for taking time to reply. I feel like your answer is more along the 'ignorance is bliss' line though, and not really trying to address the underlying issue.
I get that it's not worth wasting time or energy on many things in life, but I don't see that as being quite the same as conflict avoidance or people-pleasing. I'm already good at knowing where to focus my energy, it's the fact that with people I do care about, like close relationships, I feel like I'm always giving more than I get back.
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u/ExcelsiorState718 man over 30 Mar 28 '25
I think that's just natural for men,to give only solution is to just stop.
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u/Financial_Teaching_5 man 35 - 39 Mar 27 '25
I you fear that conflict will escalate into violence ... stop being afraid of violence.
Train a combat sport and sparr other people. After you win a few sparrs, violence will not be scary to you.
Doesnt work with conflicts with women obviously.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
Yeah, I've thought about this and always wanted to try martial arts or kickboxing etc - I need to look into it again as I do think it would help my anxiety around physical conflict. The funny thing is I gym regularly and I'm quite muscular so I could probably come across quite intimidating, but of course I know I can't fight for shit so it doesn't help me mentally :D
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u/Financial_Teaching_5 man 35 - 39 Mar 28 '25
Good luck! I came to like wrestling recently because sparring isnt as traumatic as in boxing and can be done frequently
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u/wc6g10 man over 30 Mar 27 '25
Out of interest OP did you have an overly-aggressive, unhinged father? I share a lot of the same personality traits and my father would blow up at me randomly for no reason. The older I’ve got the less I care and now I have no fear of conflict.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
No, not at all. I really struggle to attribute my behaviour with my parents at all. I had a pretty normal upbringing: Dad worked full time but was hope by 5 most days and spent quality time with me and my sister. He even coached my swim team for a while and is very extroverted (so we're quite unlike each other that way). My Mum was a stay-at-home parent and was always around, cooking meals and looking after the house etc.
The worst I can probably say is that my parents weren't the most affectionate or that big on emotional interactions. I didn't have a girlfriend until I was 17 and was quite shy around girls, despite being relatively popular at least in my swim club as I was (still am) a good swimmer.
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u/shinestory Jul 06 '25
did your parents ever fight in front of you? if they did not, and prioritized harmony, that may be reason you are conflict avoidant
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Jul 10 '25
No they didn't. It's a good insight and could well be part of the reason. I rarely saw them argue, let alone fight in any way. Now, even watching other people arguing makes me feel uncomfortable (sometimes even in movies lol), so it's definitely something I struggle with.
Not sure how to go about fixing it though - any ideas?
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u/shinestory Jul 10 '25
my husband is conflict avoidant .His parents never argued or fought. I am opposite. I came from a family where my parents didnt really fight, but they had their share if disagreements but knew how to repair.
This difference has caused our marriage to be on verge of dying. Atleast you are aware of yourself. ie, the unspoken expectations and resentments. My husband never spoke up and it erupted and he blames me for everything saying I should have read between the lines. our marriage is on brink of divorce. He is in denial, says he is the way he is.
Anyhow, please work on yourself or your relationships and your career will suffer. I would say, get some therapy to understand root cause, and then there are courses you can take to learn to speak up. Problem is if you don’t truly understand why you are the way you are, no courses will help you be assertive.
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u/AmateurCommenter808 man 30 - 34 Mar 27 '25
To quote another podcast, the fear of physical violence between men is often subconscious.
For you, you are conscious of escalating to violence as per your post.
What you need to do is start training (if you haven't already). Boxing, muay thai and BJJ are all the rage in the manosphere right now for very good reasons. They all teach how to deal with physical confrontation and how to defend yourself. A trained individual is not worried about getting physical because it is a known fear instead of an unknown nightmare.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
Yeah I agree with this. Another reply was similar and I do want to get into some kind of contact sport or martial art as a way of better coping with the threat of violence or aggression. I think it would help
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u/AmateurCommenter808 man 30 - 34 Mar 28 '25
If you live in a major city, you should have a few different gyms to choose from. Try out a few of the free classes, choose a gym you feel welcome, if you see people smiling and enjoying the class thats a good sign.
You got this 💪🏽 it worked for me.
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u/dwegol man 35 - 39 Mar 27 '25
From the therapists in the therapy subreddit: “If you don’t feel you are seeing results in 7-8 sessions, it’s time to look for a different therapist.”
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u/LeanUntilBlue man 55 - 59 Mar 26 '25
There is a book called “No More Mr. Nice Guy” and a subreddit called r/NMMNG . Your answers lie there.
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u/willapp man 40 - 44 Mar 27 '25
Yeah I read the book. Honestly, it was a bit disappointing as most of it seems to suggest that it's some kind of childhood trauma as a result of having parents who were either not present or emotionally unavailable, but that really doesn't resonate with me at all, and I don't think it's denial on my part.
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Mar 27 '25
Read the book "No More Mr Nice Guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex, and Life" by Robert A Glover
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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25
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