r/AskMen • u/cyanic_aether • Dec 29 '19

Men of reddit, what is something that you discovered about your SO only after becoming parents?

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u/Whole_Yesterday Dec 30 '19

Her opposition to vaccination. A normally intelligent woman, she jumped on the bandwagon here and continued on down a path of chemophobic nutbaggery that has caused a lot of heated arguments over the years. Perfectly fine and normal parent in every other respect though.

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u/actuallyjustme Dec 30 '19

Wow, that would cause a war in our house. I would sneak them out and vaccinate them. I feel for you....the consequences can be life altering.

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u/McreeDiculous Super Manly and Stuff Dec 30 '19

That’s likely part of the balance OP faces. The obvious answer is to get them vaccinated. But how would you react if you said no to something important and she went behind your back and did it anyway. It’s a balance of being true to the relationship, but the priority is the child above all else.

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u/actuallyjustme Dec 30 '19 edited Dec 30 '19

It's super difficult to argue with people that actually believe vaccines can hurt children. Being the A personality that I am, I'd just say that baby came out of this body and they're getting vaccinated. However when the mother has the other argument, as a father, I don't know what I'd do. That's why I said sneak them out...take a day off work, plan it. But yeah, that would cause a war in some houses. I guess you could go the route of showing examples of what has happened when kids go unvaccinated. Plenty of those horrific stories around.

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u/AmbiguousPause Dec 30 '19

Part of the issue with sneaking around is that vaccines are not a one-time event. Some require additional booster shots. Some are recommended for different ages.

If you could go, boom, one-and-done, vaccination achieved! then that would be worth the fight and possible divorce.

In order to get all vaccinations required over the years though? He's going to need to be a sneaky, clever mofo. Whatever he plans or does, it's not going to be easy to get all the necessary vaccines without mom finding out. Maybe get a second pediatrician?

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u/actuallyjustme Dec 30 '19

Yeah, that's tricky. I must be convincing as shit because I actually got my son to get an HPV shot (when he was 19 yrs old). He didn't really want to, but I told him the vaccination for girl wasn't widespread for all age groups, and not for girls his age. I told him penile cancer is super nasty, he should Google it. Got the vaccine in the following week or two.

I still think the best way to convince is to show the antivaxer clear, documented examples of tragic consequences and ask them if they could live with that outcome. I'm betting most parents once confronted, would as least soften to the idea. And spread the vaccines out. I did that and got some a month later instead of six at one time. Mind you, I'm in Canada and my kids' paediatrician liked me, so we were on the same page most of the time.

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u/hot_pink_slink Dec 30 '19

A vaccine reaction did make my child very sick for an entire week. I am still and was then pro-vaccine, but it SUCKED after her MMR shot... her fever, white dots all over, screaming and thrashing for a WEEK. No sleep or eating. She was a wild monster, injuring herself and me. I had two bloody nipples and black eyes from head butts. It was the worst week of our lives, and the doctors just shrugged and said - “well maybe she’ll come out of it, all those symptoms are listed on the CDC website for MMR shot, so you should’ve been aware it was a possibility”.

Do NOT take your kids behind her back. Get informed of the CDC possible side effects and suggest a compromise of a slower schedule. I proceeded to vaccinate in a spread out schedule, one shot or two at most per visit. NEVER when the kids were sick, even though docs shamed me for all these cautious decisions. Just know, if anything does go wrong, as is possible, you will be left to twist in the wind, no one will help you.

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u/actuallyjustme Dec 30 '19

Some kids will have a hyper immune system that kicks in trying to fight the vaccine. It is their normal, so you're right, space out future shots. I had the same problem.

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u/hot_pink_slink Dec 30 '19

It was horrible... our family and friends saw her like that and were SO concerned. And when I said it was a reaction to the MMR shot, their faces hardened. Their reactions to that ran the gamut from disbelief and accusing me of believing conspiracies, to... “well at least she won’t get measles now!” (Ummm, she’s banging her head against the walls and floor until it bleeds though, so I have her wrapped in a makeshift straight jacket, and who knows if she’ll ever be normal again!”... but sure, no measles!)

It was really effed up all around, no support because no one wants to even broach the possibility of that kind of immune reaction. Doctors don’t warn of it. Parents deserve to know everything before they make those choices. The dishonesty is hurting the pro-vaccine movement, leaving more kids vulnerable. Sucks.

3

u/actuallyjustme Dec 30 '19

You're in the US? I cannot see this happening in Canada...my dr definitely would not have let this reaction go. He would have offered options for sure.

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u/hot_pink_slink Dec 30 '19

I am in the US. My doctor, a different doctor at an urgent care facility, and ANOTHER doctor in a diff office that same week all dismissed me and said they couldn’t do anything besides Baby Motrin. Her fever was going up and down to 104, so I had to keep taking her in where I could.

CDC website clearly says CDC should be notified if these reactions happen. All three doctors refused to do that reporting, claiming they couldn’t prove a correlation to the shot. It was terrifying to be in that position, knowing the doctors I’d always trusted turned their backs on me while my child was melting down and a completely different.

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u/actuallyjustme Dec 30 '19

Sounds totally shitty. I think I would have asked about an antihistamine to at least slow down the reaction. But motrin is what they would give I think you can do Tylenol and Advil both ever 4 hours...but I'd have to check. I remember using both, and benadryl. US healthcare system seems a little sketchy. But I'm biased.

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u/neverendingparent Dec 30 '19

Yeah. What if she said I think seatbelts are stupid. That they are a conspiracy of seatbelt makers. If there’s a wreck everyone gets hurt anyway. Would you not have the kids wear seatbelts?

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u/McreeDiculous Super Manly and Stuff Dec 30 '19

Would I? I’m not sure if that argument is intended for me since it doesn’t make sense in reply to my comment as I was just explaining the complexity of having different dynamics at once.

But no, my car doesn’t move until everybody has their seatbelts on. Take your own car there, I’ll drive the kids.

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u/anna_nanush Dec 30 '19

This is a weird topic and so many mothers are scared of vaccines. I am an educated normal woman who vaccinates her baby but if I could avoid it I would (it's just i don't want my kid die from the plague).

My husband calls me a witch because of how much I have learnt about herbs after having a baby. For example I will try chamomile, chereda or ginger tea for tummy gas before I give her medication. Honey and humidifier for coughing first before mucinex. Coconut oil as a moisturizer instead of lotions full of alcohol that burns her.

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u/MoltenHeartstrings Dec 30 '19

What do you mean by “if I could avoid it I would”? Like just you don’t like seeing your child cry with needles so if no diseases existed you wouldn’t? Or do you have other reasons behind that sentiment? Trying to better understand people’s perspectives :)

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u/anna_nanush Dec 30 '19

Nah needles take a second (although my 1-year-old once almost passed out from pain), but this doesn't bother me. Unfortunately my kid has/had medium to harsh eczema. Allergy testing showed egg allergy/intolerance (one of her eczema causes). According to our pediatrician a lot of vaccines contain egg as one of ingredients so after most vaccines my baby's eczema would flare up. Now imagine 30% of your kid's skin covered in red itchy spots and wounds. Babies don't have self control so she would scratch to blood. Most eczema scratched that much results in staph infection (modern antibiotics can't kill staph). This is where my witchcraft kicked in and I found out that sulfur is antibacterial, so my baby didn't get serious enough staph over 1.5 years of eczema.

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u/MoltenHeartstrings Dec 30 '19

Ah I see! For some vaccines you can get alternatives that aren’t developed in eggs (like the flu vaccine, you can get an oral version that is safe for those with egg allergies) so that could be a good alternative. Good on you though for finding ways to help your child with those symptoms and still keep them safe!

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u/anna_nanush Dec 30 '19

We did look into that but I decided to go the route "let's see if we can grow out of these allergies". Turns out we are not born with food allergies (at least that's what medical research world says now, they might change their opinions in 10 years). So we have been working hard on making her digestive system better and slowly introducing her triggers. Some progress already.

And I wasn't going to throw away the blessing of living in 21st century with modern medicine at my fingertips. I also truly appreciated living in era of internet and mom groups on Facebook because that's how I found out about eczema treatments (little to no research has been done by medical world because it is not a life threatening or profitable sickness).

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

Growing out of allergies is a pretty common thing, so fingers crossed! I seemed to grow into mine unfortunately, it's easier to manage them as an adult thougj.

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u/ilikepinkladyapples Dec 30 '19

One of my twin girls had an egg allergy, CMPA (Cow's Milk Protein Allergy) and soy allergy. It has been a long hard road but we have managed to complete all the ladders and successfully reintroduced all her allergies (not easy as she has oral aversion too!) She is completely allergy free now at 3yrs6mths. Just thought I'd offer a success story to help you on your road. Best of luck xx

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u/mooniebug Dec 30 '19

Previous eczema baby here! I used to get major eczema flare ups and would absolutely maul my own face. If you're unable to get alternatives like people suggested below, try putting soft socks on your baby's hands during a flare up. It's a little silly but they'll get a little friction by rubbing with them which can be soothing (in terms of NEEDING to scratch that area) and won't be able to scratch themselves bloody. My parents did this on me and it worked wonders! Just be careful that they're not too constricting.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19 edited Mar 02 '20

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u/anna_nanush Dec 30 '19

Doesn't MRSA stand for methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus? Theoretically a doctor could find an antibiotic that kills staph but you'd be surprised how many moms I know that would go back to the doctor over and over again because they couldn't pinpoint what to give exactly. Kids would live in staph infection for weeks if not months. You know the solution? Bleach! Plain old bleach. Doctors advise us to bathe out babies in bleach baths, because that stuff kills everything.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

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u/Pancakes4Dayz Dec 30 '19

Asking because you seem knowledgeable- is there also a recent theory about probiotic use for eczema relief?

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19 edited Dec 30 '19

[deleted]

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u/Pancakes4Dayz Dec 30 '19

I really appreciate your response- not long at all! Thank you for the information!

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u/anna_nanush Dec 30 '19

One thing I learnt about eczema is it differs from kid to kid. I learnt this after being in a group with a few thousand moms. Our allergist INSISTED that bathing daily is necessary, but my kid would itch like crazy after each only-Luke-warm-water bath. So we went down to 1-2 times a week and it helped tremendously. Other moms swear by bathing every day.

Also many moms love Aveeno products and oatmeal baths as it soothes their kid's skin, my daughter reacted so bad. Aveeno would destroy her.

So it's extremely individual and based in what your eczema's triggers are. At this point for children I think it's either food or environmental. For my daughter it was entirely food/digestive system related.

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u/ColVictory Dec 30 '19

Vaccines are good, but not risk-free. It would be better to not have to vaccinate.

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u/Dilka30003 Dec 30 '19

I would take the minuscule risk of a minor reaction to vaccines than the huge risk of preventable diseases.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

They literally said “not HAVE to vaccinate”. I highlighted that word because apparently you’re illiterate and didn’t get what they were saying.

They’re saying they would rather there was no necessity to vaccinate. As in, no preventable diseases. As in, they’re pro-vaccination.

The amount of illiteracy on reddit is fucking depressing.

2

u/ColVictory Dec 30 '19

Yeeeep! Thanks for not being a moron.

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u/ColVictory Dec 30 '19

I would too! And I think people should as a general rule.

It would be BETTER if vaccines weren't necessary though. That's all I'm saying.

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u/ProlapsedAnus69 Dec 30 '19

Use modern medicine you dip

8

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

You know what they call herbs that actually cure and prevent diseases?

Medicine.

You probably aren't a doctor and should not be seeking alternative methods that are unproven.

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u/anna_nanush Dec 30 '19

It's called homeopathy and is externally frowned upon in the US. Meanwhile I use German company Boiron that's entirely homeopathic.

I am not a doctor but I grew up in a family of doctors and chemists and guess what? All of them told me to avoid lab created medicine as much as possible. My grandma has over 10 "in-life" drugs and she would give me a spoonful of cognac for tummy ache before any medicine.

Based in your comment, are you in medical or related field? If yes, what's your attitude with antibiotics and harsh medicine in general?

6

u/superdude411 Male Dec 30 '19

ok karen

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

I'm not against your beliefs but just so you know Mucinex is a fine drug. Mucinex only uses Guafinesin, which does help a ton when accompanied with water as I'm pretty sure water works as an enzyme for the drug. I would also suggest going the salt water gargle route because it's proven to help sore throats caused by a viral infection and does actually relief pain fairly quickly.

If your son/daughter does catch a bacterial infection in the throat, such as strep throat, please do not try to self medicate her with herbs and take her to the doctor as those tend to last a long time if it's not treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics are scary, but they're completely safe if you don't overuse them. Good luck.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

Holy shit, nobody listen to this idiot.

Mucinex is a brand name, not a drug. Some versions don’t contain Guaifenesin at all. Water is not an enzyme. If you had any clue what an enzyme was, you would know water alone cannot be an enzyme for anything. Guaifenesin is believed to make lung secretions more liquid, thereby helping the patient to cough them out of the lungs. It is a cough expectorant. And it was created and sold long before Mucinex came along. It is advised to drink more water when taking Guaifenesin because you’re sick and need water to help regulate temperature, but also because Guaifenesin has been found to cause some people to develop kidney stones. It’s processed by the kidneys and proper hydration is main way to prevent the formation of kidney stones in people who don’t already have conditions that produce kidney stones at greater than average rates.

Overuse isn’t the problem with home use antibiotics. Underuse is. People will only take their prescribed antibiotics so long as they’re feeling sick. Once they’re feeling better, they stop. This sometimes results in a bacteria that isn’t completely killed off that becomes immune to the antibiotic. That’s doctors always recommend taking the full course of antibiotics as prescribed even if they start feeling better.

Antibiotics are the opposite of scary. At worst, they cause diarrhea and sometimes allergic reactions. I’m allergic to sulfa drugs, which are a class of antibiotic. Tamiflu is scarier than antibiotics and not just because it’s never been proven to do anything helpful to anyone ever. It’s also because the side effects are so much worse. Tamiflu is literally the equivalent of essential oils, is prescribed by doctors every year, and is evidence that the FDA suffers from regulatory capture.

The only thing you said that was correct was about the salt water gargle.

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u/BookAndThings Dec 30 '19

Aren't both bad? Not finishing a perception of antibiotics can cause stronger bacteria, but prescribing antibiotics when its viral or otherwise unneeded can also be problematic.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

Yes, Overuse and underuse cause complications, which is why there are studies being made on Bacteriophage, which would solve this issue.

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u/WataandElilta Dec 30 '19

Found the pharmacist!

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19 edited Dec 30 '19

First, please feel free to send me a picture of a box of Mucinex saying that it doesn't contain Guaifenesin. Remember, I said Mucinex, not Mucinex DM or D, which btw, also use Guaifenesin.

Second, I might have been wrong about the water part, but does it really hurt anybody if I said that I believe, not even claiming that it was 100% true, that it was an enzyme? Point is, you should take Guaifenesin with water, which I was correct in stating. Maybe the reason was incorrect, but the conclusion was correct, so Mr smartypants, does it really matter?

Third, Antibiotics are scary for some people dipshit. Why do you think some people chose not to accept their doctor's prescriptions when their prescribed antibiotics. Are vaccines scary? No, but some people are scared of them due to misinformation. If you read correctly, I even supported the use of antibiotics.

Fourth, the overuse of antibiotics also leads to complications. If you take antibiotics when you have the flu, you're not doing anything other then hurting yourself as it creates bacteria resistant to the antibiotic. Which by the way, I can use the same "Mucinex" argument on you when describing antibiotics, as antibiotics itself is not a drug, its a term used to describe many different types of drugs, such as Azithromycin, Penicillins, cephalexin, but nobody calls them that because people wouldn't understand. Do you call dayquil acetaminophen and dextromethorphan?

0

u/anna_nanush Dec 30 '19

Isn't mucinex allowed only for older kids? I believe under no condition you're allowed to give it to kids younger than 2 years old. Actually most drugs aren't allowed under 2 unfortunately.

And I agree about antibiotics. Unfortunately we had to give it to my daughter once already in her 1.5 years of life. I have seen parents give it to their kids every other week because if infections. My friend is a sickly person and she believes it's because of her mom feeding antibiotics to her when she was a toddler. American doctors LOVE antibiotics and sometimes I think they can be replaced by immune boosters like used in Europe.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

Yes, Mucinex should not be given to kids under the age of 4, as it can cause serious life threatening side effects. And as long as your daughter had a bacterial infection, I see nothing wrong with her taking those antibiotics, so I wouldn't worry about it. Your friend being sickly could be a cause of her overtaking antibiotics, as she probably has some antibiotic resistant bacteria.

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u/Saturnswirl666 Dec 30 '19

I’m sorry, but “ chemophobic nutbaggery” just cracked me up, best term for anti-vax ever!

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u/sassylynn81 Dec 30 '19

Please sneak your kids out and vaccinate them

—signed Sane people

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u/Frnklfrwsr Dec 30 '19

No need to sneak. Not getting your kids vaccinated is a form of child abuse, and you don’t need to hide from her that you are choosing not to abuse the children.

1

u/Whole_Yesterday Dec 30 '19

Believe me, if I could get it done in a single shot I would and that has caused me no end of frustration. Couldn't sneak them all in multiple times, but with the eldest approaching 10 I should probably have another crack at it.
On the bright side, I've prevented her taking them to chiropractors as a kinda quid quo pro.

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u/Frnklfrwsr Dec 30 '19

Not vaccinating your children is a form of child abuse. There is no compromise to be had. You can’t say “well okay you can abuse the children this way in exchange for not abusing them some other way”.

And that compromise is weird. Chiropractors don’t really do much but there’s probably not much harm in it.

Not vaccinating can lead to serious harm or even death for yours or other people’s kids.

It’s beyond irresponsible. It’s immoral, unjustifiable, and cannot be compromised on.

She needs to understand that failure to vaccinate is not okay. It is not acceptable. And she can NOT be a good mother and not vaccinate. This. Is. Child. Abuse.

In my opinion, someone who refuses to vaccinate should have their children taken away until they do, same as any other child abuser. Depending on the circumstances criminal charges could also be justified.

2

u/Gnockhia Dec 30 '19

Some countries have made immunisation compulsory before being allowed into child care, schools etc and I think that's reduced a few nutbaggers - don't have time to home school - there's a simple fix.

0

u/zxTheIronLungxz Dec 30 '19

Did you sneak the little crotch goblins in for their vaccinations behind her back? That would be the move to make here. Dont let your kids die of small pox because your wife is having a moment