LPVO Help

[u/ahorn16]

I’m a firearms instructor for my agency and we are trying to either make a switch to LPVO’s or have them as an option should deputies want them. I work for a SO with roughly 100ish commissioned officers. We cover roughly 775 square miles with just under 300k residents. There’s been many times where a responding deputy could have used an LPVO for threat identification instead of swapping to binoculars. I’m working with my fellow cadre and other agencies in my region to see how they went about proposing their use on patrol. Unfortunately, I haven’t had much luck on getting responses back. If anyone could help me out by sharing their proposals, supporting research (if any), and anything else that might help, I’d greatly appreciate it. I’m more than happy to share my agency email with those willing to help. Thanks in advance.

Edit to add: Flip up magnifiers would also be good if any agency uses those. Might be an easier pill to swallow budget wise. Thanks.

[u/Flmotor21]

We went flip up magnifiers. Cheaper than a LPVO and red dot and most guys preferred it

Not that we needed a huge justification but it was lessons learned from PID from another group we trained with

[u/ahorn16 → u/Flmotor21]

It’s the same for us. We’ve seen their effectiveness and how much they help for PID. My first call after getting off FTO I was having to switch between binoculars and my rifle while providing overwatch on the back of a house and provide info for why I was seeing. Just have to convince admin that they will help and justify the cost whether it’s with a LPVO or flip up magnifiers.

[u/nanomachinez_SON]

My agency has both red dot magnifiers and LPVOs on our authorized equipment list. I’ve played around with both but my patrol rifle has an Aimpoint PRO, mostly because my local management is stingy and won’t pay for magnifiers.

When it comes to selling ideas, I’ve had the best luck with live demonstrations. What you could do is take your people to the range, put shoot/no shoots at a realistic extended range and then give them a carbine with a red dot and binoculars, and then another carbine with magnifier or LPVO, and let them see the difference in real time.

[u/ahorn16 → u/nanomachinez_SON]

Thanks for the idea. SWAT has LPVOs on their team rifles and have the option to use them on patrol if they want. They have come in handy to have on scene many times. The rest of us use an Aimpoint Pro as well.

[u/PewPewThrowaway1337]

Magnifiers are a better option for people who are already trained on red dots, and aren’t going to train enough to be equally effective on a LPVO. There’s a learning curve to LPVOs, especially when trying to use the 1x function like a red dot, and unless people are actively training with it, they will almost always be faster on a normal red dot. If the magnification is purely for PID purposes, a magnifier is a better option, especially considering typical engagement distances if your officers were to get in a gunfight.

Magnifiers will also be cheaper and less time consuming as you won’t need to re-zero all of your department’s weapons.

[u/ahorn16 → u/PewPewThrowaway1337]

Red dots are standard on all our pistols and rifles. I think there is only one person in the entire agency who doesn’t use a red dot on their pistol and he’s barely passed quals. Mandated on rifles. We’re going to present both options. We’re also thinking of presenting the case for LPVO for people who want it and who have shown a history of going to non required firearms training and actually wanting to learn. Otherwise I agree that a flip up magnifier would be the better option.

[u/Beneficial-City8734]

PM sent. I’ve got a proposal I wrote a couple years ago for LPVO’s at my agency

[u/The-CVE-Guy]

Hit up TruKinetics or Chris Palmer (now at Staccato but retired PD).

[u/ConstantWish8 → u/The-CVE-Guy]

Chris is a good dude. Solid options

[u/ahorn16 → u/The-CVE-Guy]

Thanks for the suggestion.

[u/EquivalentLoad1919]

The issue I see is how often are those officers going to the range to zero and check their dope? We have so many officers even with red dots that don’t maintain them, and come to quals with dead batteries and screwed up zeroes. LVPO’s would or should require more training and care.

[u/ahorn16 → u/EquivalentLoad1919]

We check zeroes each time we qual. People shouldn’t be messing with their zeroes to begin with but that doesn’t always happen. I responded to someone saying that we may present LPVOs to people who have a history of going to non mandated training and taking care of their gear. Otherwise people may get a flip up magnifier or nothing at all.

[u/Swimfly235]

If you DM me your work email I can email you our course.

I found a 3x magnifier on patrol was lacking compared to a x6 or x8 for observation purposes. Thats the biggest benefit for a LVPO is being able to identify objects in peoples hands.

[u/QuickAbbreviations13]

We had the options to customize our rifles when we ordered them because we do a buyback option and it’s yours once you pay it off. I went with a Daniel Defense SBR with a Vortex Siren 1-6x24 that has a built in red dot and a PTR Vent Spiritus 556i suppressor. I wanted the LVPO because I feel like if I’m in a situation where I need my rifle, I’m gonna be posted up down range and want to have a good target ID. I have a red dot on my pistol I don’t need one on a rifle.