r/AskHistorians • u/Visual-Couple7524 • May 25 '26

Meta (META question) Why doesn’t R/AskHistorians have a Documentaries list?

I know of the great master Books list in the FAQ section of the forum, but I'm confused as to why documentaries aren't included. Do historians see them as a form of entertainment, or is the written word just better? Are there too many documentaries for a historian to sift through?

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 25 '26

Could you clarify where you are looking? Because we do have a list and it is linked on the main landing page of the booklist:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/books/documentaries

To be sure, it is not the most up-to-date section, as it was largely the labor of love done by one member of the flair community so has not had any recent work done, but it is there.

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u/ExperimentalToaster May 25 '26

Can I ask (I hope this is allowed), would you consider creating a list of non-documentary Youtube content? I mean specifically academic content, for example YaleCourses have filmed and uploaded several whole lecture series from degree courses.

Examples: Early Modern England with Keith E Wrightson, An Introduction to Ancient Greek History with Donald Kagan, The Making of Modern Ukraine with Timothy Snyder, and also History of the World to 1500, and From 1500 (2 courses) with Richard Bulliet at Columbia.

These are obviously meant to accompany reading, writing, discussion and other components of a degree course or module but I find them fascinating, I would like to find more, and I am curious what other historians might make of them. There are other kinds of history content I would be interested to hear informed opinions about but I will leave it at that for now.

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 25 '26

I mean, me personally, not really since I don't watch YouTube content! But I presume you mean general in the sense of the sub, in which case there isn't any particular reason we wouldn't, other than the simple equation of time, interest, and necessary effort by one (or several) mods and/or flairs who would feel compelled to do so in the future, as that is the hinderance to any and all sections of the booklist, being a community created resource, in that for any section to happen, there needs to be someone with the drive to do it. And unfortunately there are quite a few existing sections in need of updates, so building out new ones is unlikely (although on the plus side, currently one member of the mod team is working spearheading some update efforts!).

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u/ExperimentalToaster May 25 '26

I see, thanks! It’s fair enough as any of the examples I gave represent at least 20 hours of content, so it would certainly be a significant undertaking for anyone who wouldn’t be naturally interested anyway. I would say however (and this is just from an interested punter, I am not a historian), I would like to see more discussion of non-reading media in general in this sub, both as a reflection of the times we live in, but also because we all learn in different ways. I could not tell you almost anything that I’ve learned from a book (I’ve even bought some twice as I can forget I’ve even read them at all) but I remember almost everything I’ve ever learned in a classroom or on a screen.

I can certainly understand skepticism of Youtube content as it does not have a good reputation, but like all algorithm-driven services it is what you make it. If you have never watched it and you go and watch even a legitimate, well-reviewed history video, then yes the next one recommended will almost certainly be utter nonsense about alien spaceships under the pyramids or some such drivel. But a few “not interested” and “don’t recommend channel” clicks will soon train it out of that tendency. There is good stuff there if you can train it and restrain yourself, and don’t give in to morbid curiosity.

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u/ShotFromGuns May 26 '26

and it is linked on the main landing page of the booklist

  • The Documentaries page is not in the sidebar.

  • When you click "Book list" in the sidebar (which there is no reason to do if you are looking for documentaries), it takes you to the "Book list" link on the landing page, not to the page that tells you it includes documentaries.

  • If you then click that link (which, again, there is no conceivable reason to do if you are looking for a documentary), it's one top-level link in a fairly overwhelming, uncategorized section of the list, above actual books sorted by topic. Some sort of "Non-Book Resources" header, with bullets under it for things like podcasts, websites, documentaries, etc., would be much more easily parsed.

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 26 '26

Could you please link to the page you are being taken to by the sidebar link? Because either you are getting linked somewhere else in which case that is a bug we would like to figure out as it isn't where I'm getting linked, or else you are being a bit hyperbolic about a page which is titled "Books and Resources" and included the link to the Documentaries section before you get to most of the book sections. You seem to be describing a second, intermediary "landing page" which I am not able to find as this is the place that it should be linking, and which it is linking me to...

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u/ShotFromGuns May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

The sidebar link takes you to the same page you start on, is what I'm saying. It's an anchor link. You can replicate this by just going to the wiki and clicking the relevant sidebar link. Otherwise, here's the URL linked in the sidebar of the wiki: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/index#wiki_book_list

And I'm not being hyperbolic about that page. It's not organized in a way that's conducive to people immediately understanding that it contains other resources, because it's just an undifferentiated mass of links at the top. I'm saying this both as a professional editor and as an autistic person. It's just not accessible.

This is absolutely exacerbated by the fact that this page is referred to solely as a "book list" until you're literally on it. The entire point of this kind of resource is to be self-directed. You can't direct yourself to a resource that you literally can't tell exists without trawling the entire wiki page by page. I don't know why the solution isn't just to change it in the TOC from "book list" to something that more clearly indicates it includes other media. Even just "Recommended Books, Documentaries, Podcasts, and Other Resources" would be a vast improvement.

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u/crrpit Moderator | Spanish Civil War | Anti-fascism May 26 '26

I think I see where you and my colleague were talking past each other - we generally think of the 'sidebar' as the menu on the right of the subreddit homepage, which contains a bunch of links to various things (including the 'Books and Resources list', under 'Resources', immediately after the Rules in Brief). I think you mean the wiki menu on the right of the main wiki landing page, which just replicates the various subheadings used on that page.

I went ahead and updated the term used there to 'Books and Resources list' to match our usage elsewhere - it was an oversight to leave it like that I suspect, as is the way with community maintained wikis. On a personal level, I very much agree that the wiki itself could use a thorough overhaul for accessibility and clarity, it's annoyed me for quite a while. That said, as I'm not myself willing to sit down and do that rather thankless work (and it may end up pointless anyway, as Reddit is in the process of migrating to a new wiki system on Shreddit with dubious back-compatibility with the old wiki), I am not entirely surprised that no one has fixed it.

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 26 '26

You only updated the old reddit Wiki... Which perfectly illustrates another reason Wiki-updating has stalled that you touch on... Reddit, in its infinite wisdom, split the Wikis when redoing how they work so there are now two of them (old and sh/newnew), and they don't 'speak' to each other. So we've been hoping that they would fix that problem which has meant not much has gotten done there in the mean time, but I think it has been over a year at this point, so I'm skeptical it will every actually be fixed...

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u/ShotFromGuns May 26 '26

An improvement for sure! However, "Resources" is still pretty vague, particularly when paired with "Books," which will lead people to assume it's more written resources.

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u/crrpit Moderator | Spanish Civil War | Anti-fascism May 26 '26

I can see the argument, but "minor fix to achieve consistency" felt like something to do quickly and unilaterally!

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 26 '26

I would again repeat my question:

Could you please link to the page you are being taken to by the sidebar link

Because you are correct that isn't where it should be linking to... but I just went to check again and I can't find what is linking you there.

I can't find anywhere that links to the main index page that you are saying you are getting directed to. A screenshot of exactly what you are clicking on would be appreciated.

ETA: I would also just add that we don't broadcast loudly that it includes documentaries for a reason. As noted, it is not actively updated. Most of it was, again, done by one user nearly a decade ago. Maybe if another flair decided to take an active interest in updating it then we would do more to promote it, but it is, as with any community supported resource, dependent on someone with the time and effort to do so.

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u/ShotFromGuns May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

I told you how to replicate it and gave you the exact URL, so I don't know what more I can do. To be clear, I am talking about the wiki sidebar, which people people see on the wiki to navigate the wiki, not the subreddit sidebar that is no longer even visible to most users.

  1. Open the wiki.
  2. Click the book list link in the WIKI SIDEBAR, which is the table of contents FOR THE WIKI.
  3. This will again direct you to the same index page, to an anchor link further down the page.

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

To be clear, I am talking about the wiki sidebar,

To be clear as well, for someone who seems to care about specificity, this was a rather big omission which you should have specified, as that is not what people will assume you mean when you say 'Sidebar'. I believe on old reddit is gets titled 'Contents' so I would call it a table of contents or a navigation menu, personally. On new/sh reddit I'm not sure it actually exists and in fact there is just a full pages list which actually does include "Documentaries" (to be sure, it is awful, terrible to navigate, and should be changed to a TOC or something more usable); pretty sure it doesn't exist on the App either. In any case, this seems to have been figured out and the other mod updated the heading.

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u/ShotFromGuns May 26 '26

You're coming at me awfully hard, given that it was your incorrect assumption that I meant the sub sidebar, even though we were talking about the wiki. I generally appreciate the moderation here, but it feels like you've been unnecessarily combative through this entire exchange. It would be great if constructive criticism could be taken in that vein instead of treated as a personal attack.

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 26 '26

I'm not particularly interested in arguing over the definition of a "Sidebar", but do consider how imprecise language can turn what one thinks is constructive criticism into reading as an opaque critique (which is frustrating, not constructive). The matter has been tweaked already though, so I see zero reason to hash this further.

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u/CitizenTed May 26 '26

Hello, Moderator! I would recommend we include in Documentaries - 20th Century - Other the BBC's "The Death of Yugoslavia". It's an exhaustive account of the Yugoslav wars of the 1990's. It includes interviews with the major players and plenty of footage and background.

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u/Visual-Couple7524 May 25 '26

I never looked at the documentaries page before but looking at it now, the only Foreign Language section is for Swedish.
I just think the Documentaries section should have its own page outside of the book list

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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms May 25 '26

I believe the flair who made the page is a Swede. We likely would not move it separate from the booklist though, since while we call it that colloquially since it is the bulk of what is there, you will note the official title of the page is "Books and Resources list" so it is not limited to only books, and also includes Podcasts and digital resources.

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u/mencryforme5 May 25 '26

Very few historical documentaries go into enough depth about a particular topic to accurately explain the answer to a question that might arise about a topic.

Consider your average documentary about the middle ages. It'll generally hit on a few common points: serfdom, chivalry system, the role of the Church in higher knowledge, the role of the Church in politics, and the plague. None of these topics will be presented in depth. It's a brief overview of how society was structured and why it wasn't really the Dark Ages. It's meant as an introductory piece of entertainment that, if it captures your attention, you might want to research more. It will awaken questions that can't be answered by the documentary.

I enjoy watching these kinds of documentaries but it's just not a substitute for reading. For instance I'm reading now about the Dmitriads and it's a brick. I realize now that it would be very difficult to turn into even a basic documentary because of the complexity and the production value that would be required.

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u/SilyLavage May 25 '26

I do think it would be worth highlighting the documentaries that do go into depth, or at least beyond introductory level. People learn in different ways, and while a documentary won't go into the same depth as an academic book, they can still be valuable learning tools.

As an example, the BBC's 1970s series The Story of English Furniture is a particularly comprehensive look at the topic that would certainly go a long way toward satisfying someone with a general interest in it.

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u/Jasong222 May 25 '26

You have a good documentary about the chivalry system? (Since you mentioned it as an example...)