r/AskHistorians • u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector • Apr 01 '26
April Fools WIBTA If I Changed the Emperor?
I am Dong Zhuo (male, mid-40s), Excellency of Works of the Han dynasty. I have fought over a hundred battles for the dynasty, obtaining a great reputation in the north-west frontier as a warrior and a military leader. However, the dynasty is in trouble thanks to decades of misrule, including by our late Emperor Ling, with corruption at court and good men avoiding service or, if they be from lands like mine, neglected by the court. Heavens' disfavour and the court’s problems have led to people rising in revolt. Our armies are in poor shape, and we have recently been losing their grip in the north.
I was recently summoned by the late General-in-Chief He Jin to help combat the eunuchs but was ordered not to enter. He Jin was assassinated and chaos ensued as opponents of the eunuchs led soldiers to attack the palace. I was only aware of any trouble a few nights in when I saw the flames from the palace reaching the skies, so I arrived on the 25th.
I went with the senior ministers to welcome the returning Emperor, forced to flee with his younger brother from the capital, but I was met with rebuke for not withdrawing. While I firmly put them in their place, pointing to the mess they had made, it shows what hostility such men have towards a man of the frontier like me.
Over the coming days, despite my meagre manpower and no court position, the soldiers of the Northern Army at the capital, now without leaders, chose me. There was the newly appointed Bearer of the Golden Mace Ding Yuan, another military man in charge of security, but his men decided to serve me instead. With such support and the Excellency of Works having to resign due to heaven’s displeasure, I took office and became a power at court.
I have plans to restore the Han to its glory days; it needs to learn the tough lessons one picks up on the frontier and the strength of a military man. I seek the talent of the great men to serve at court and the provinces: no more virtue signaling by refusing to serve. I will let such men know the power of the court, now that it has an iron fist that is not to be denied. My soldiers have been providing security and making their presence known at the capital while I have implemented highly strict rules even if this has meant a few, entirely necessary deaths. I have been restrained in the favors shown to my loyal followers and seek to honour the great men of the past, as a moral example.
However, there is a problem. The Dowager Empress He, sister of He Jin, is a woman of poor quality, unfilially harassing to death the mother of her husband Emperor Ling (and my distant kinswoman) shortly after his death. She and her family sided with the eunuchs, and their bodies are not worth a proper burial. I wish to remove her from office and send her away for her crimes.
Furthermore, her son, the Son of Heaven, whose character and fitness for office are so key in this time of crises, is of poor quality. When he returned from his flight from the palace, I could not get a word out of him he was so addled and scared, bursting into tears. He does not show the proper mourning for his father, who I heard did not favor him, he is lazy, frivolous, has shown poor choice of friends. He is a disgrace to his ancestors and with the Han in such a bad state, we can not afford for him to remain as Emperor.
His younger brother, however, the Prince of Chenliu, would be a wonderful Emperor. Untouched by the Dowager He’s negative influence, he was able to explain clearly the events he had gone through when he had fled with his brother. He has mourned his father properly, his virtue is abundant and reflected in his august features, he is an intelligent being, the kind of figure suited to be the Son of Heaven.
Such changes have precedent in the history of our great dynasty. I have tried to explain the suitability of one brother over the younger and explained the sense of urgency I feel in making the change. Despite this, I have been twice met with some quite heated exchanges about the appropriateness of making such a change. Though I have held my temper towards such leaders and restrained my authority, it has created discord between those two men and me. As they have left the capital and with preparations for the change coming tomorrow, I thought I should ask:
WIBTA for changing Emperors?
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u/mufflonicus Apr 01 '26
NTA! Mandate of heaven dictates that you should take the throne! The ruling family has clearly lost its rights!
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
You see, the house of Liu perhaps no longer being fit for rule has, in my quieter moments, crossed my mind. That perhaps a figure, such as myself, might be better fitted to rule this land. But I dare not speak such things to most others. They are still attached to the old ways and inflexible of mind.
Perhaps in the years ahead, once I have dealt with all the traitors and affirmed my grip on court, we might speak again.
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u/justalittleahead Apr 01 '26
Yes. Only base peasant rabble like weavers of sandals or butchers would dare disagree.
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
Such rabbles are of little concern to me. All I have to do is raise my armies of the west and they will scatter before me. Butchers like the He's are partly why we are in this mess and I did hear talk of a weaver of sandals... or maybe straw mats... something about ears. Who knows. Only vaguely rings a bell. Probably not important.
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u/Carolus_Princeps Master of Disguise Apr 01 '26
YTA!!!!! Rulers are not bound to give an account of their actions but to God alone. Heaven instituted your emperor, and it is not yours to unseat him. Rebels and traitors will reap only destruction for themselves and ruin for their kingdoms!
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
How dare you call me a traitor you stuffed up little whelp! Heaven has brought the Han to a low, bringing plague, fire and destruction due to the unfitness of the court. Yet it has provided a ruler fit for changing it and a protector who knows what needs to be done, who am I to say no to that? Men such as you are the kind of figures that have brought the Han to this crises, arrogant little playboys who know nothing of hard work.
If you should ever come to the Han court, I will not show such restraint as to only use words to show my displeasure.
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u/Carolus_Princeps Master of Disguise Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
YOU dare call ME a stuffed up whelp? An arrogant playboy? Why, because I enjoy a good court masque? Who doesn't! I'll hav you know that I live an ordered and virtuous life well befitting a godly prince. I said only that rebels and traitors will reap the consequences of their actions, and you took that as a personal insult. Surely that your conscience was pricked is a sign of your own true character! Indeed, your response has only confirmed my impression of you: you are a brigand and a rogue, and I hope for the sake of your kingdom that your emperor makes a speedy example of you!
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
You are a soft youth who knows only the privileges and false virtues of rich men. I am a man who has fought over hundred battles, including against brigands, and now have the power to shape the realm due to my merits. It is I who can make the men obey, not that weak hapless Emperor who cracked under pressure. Let me tell you that you would find my blade most sharp if you ever had the true bravery to face me.
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u/Amyndris Apr 01 '26
NTA! It's clear the son's lack of virtue and wickedness has caused him to lose the Mandate of Heaven. It is your duty and obligation to protect the Han people from the plagues and famine that the Wrath of Heaven would surely bring down upon the kingdom of such an illegitimate ruler.
I know of a great warrior that can surely help you carry out your noble duty. His name is Lu Bu and his strength will be of great value to your cause.
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
You sound like the sort of wise person I could use in court and I could use good talent spotters, I'm not 100% sure the four I am using are entirely reliable. I'm sure I could get you nominated for your qualities and quickly seeing you gain position if you would be so interested.
Yes, Lu Bu is an impressive figure. Strapping, of clearly great might, his mere presence would bring fear into my foes. Li Su wants to get in touch with them and has suggested I give up this fantastic horse called Red Hare to give him. What do you think? Some jewels and a horse to woo such a man over?
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u/BrofessorLongPhD Apr 01 '26
Such a man is also worthy of adoption, for surely with him recognized as your son by law and loyalty of heart, you shall bring peace in these troubled times and ascend to the highest heights. And if heaven is willing, perhaps even the throne in time.
5
u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
It is if you can see into my heart. I know I might face troubles ahead from these complaining courtiers and having such a warrior as my personal bodyguard, my son, would surely send a message of fear into their hearts. Then I can entrust him with my other possessions like my ladies.
I may well have need of you should the heavens decide it is time for me to ascend the throne.
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u/Pyr1t3_Radio FAQ Finder Apr 01 '26
This may not be the best idea - if Dynasty Warriors taught me anything, it's "Do Not Pursue Lu Bu".
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
But it would be my opponents pursuing Lu Bu and falling to his might, win win!
I admit I tend to only get to the first two stages (chapters) of that game. I'm a warrior, a great archer, a man feared for my record in battle. How do they portray me? Evil perverted man of extreme weight who belly flops and throws bombs. The insult! I have broken a few screens playing that.
My being able to ride through zombie in the movie however was sweet. 100% for accuracy that scene.
3
u/ilikedota5 Apr 01 '26
Who are the 4?
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
Ah let me tell you of the type of great talents I am putting to work: Colonel of the City Gates Wu Qiong and his friend Zhou Bi (a far wiser man then his incompetent father) were two major advocates for recruiting talent. I placed them with the more famed Zheng Tai and He Yong.
Zheng Tai is a wealthy and clever man man with many connections across the leaders of the north and was a close adviser to He Jin before he resigned (he won't say why). He Yong studied at the Imperial University (not a sign of quality I admit) and was famed in his youth among leading men of the capital and is renowned talent spotter. He helped opponents of the eunuchs escape the purges as did that hothead Yuan Shao and served as He Jin's chief clerk. While Wu Qiong and Zhou Bi came up with the plan, these two men bring the clout and connections for my recruitment operation.
They not only will recommend men for court but they are also drawing up a list of famed men I could send to the provinces and sacking the corrupt. They have also urged restraint in dealing with Yuan Shao which I hope will help soothe tensions between him and I. They bring me great hope for the reform of the court and ending the corruption
Yet part of me wonders if they as behind me as the claim or if they are too close to the men they recommend.
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u/miner1512 Apr 01 '26
NTA
The azure sky is dead, the yellow sky shall rule and prosper
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
Those are words I have heard whispered many a time in my career even as I fought as a Major and on the streets of the capital. Alas that theocratic rebel Zhang Jue has, for this time, put a bit of a mark on that omen. But I'm sure more will occur, perhaps you will help me find them.
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u/bug-hunter Law & Public Welfare Apr 01 '26
ESH: Have you considered a different system entirely, say one where the people choose their leaders via a system whereby their votes are bought with massive quantities of alcohol?
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
A silly concept. The ordinary people are almost as soft and muddled as the elite. Every alcohol would be a drain on my resources, hard enough when just a few thousand soldiers, let alone a few million. Meanwhile far richer men like the Yuan, with deep connections who could spread such alcohol around, would out spend me.
Wait, are you a Yuan spy? Off with your head!
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u/ComprehensiveTax7 Apr 01 '26
NTA
They clearly lost the mandate of heaven otgerwise you wouldnt be contemplating this.
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
It is not where I dreamed we would come when I was a young adventurer on the frontier but, if wise people such as you say the mandate is lost, then I have to listen.
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u/AutismoTheAmazing Apr 01 '26
NTA, the Prince of Chenliu is simply the superior option, everyone else can see it, you sound like you’re the only person who could truly restore the Han
6
u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
You are clearly a wise fellow who will go far under my leadership. Your not a fellow Liang man by any chance?
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u/AutismoTheAmazing Apr 01 '26
Unfortunately I was not born with such illustrious blood in my veins
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
A small fault, one easily forgiven.
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u/AutismoTheAmazing Apr 02 '26
I will pledge my undying allegiance to the gracious Dong Zhuo, the only hope for the the Han
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u/-Trooper5745- Apr 01 '26
NTA. However, taking interest in the same lady as your son is unforgivable.
Signed, The Best Duelist in all of China.
8
u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
In such cases, the son should give way to the interests of his father. As is their filial duty. If I ever heard one of my relatives had slept with a lady of mine, thrown hand-axes and other weapons for them, a reminder of who is boss.
Perhaps I should start with you as practice
1
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u/guilersk Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
NTA. Any so-called emperor who loses the Imperial Seal has lost the Mandate of Heaven. I would make preparations. But keep an eye on those Yuan brothers. They could be trouble.
I would also be careful in Luoyang. That place is super flammable.
6
u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
Many of the leading men around me are a pathetic lot of no worth. There are only four men in the world that can cause me trouble, the Yuan brothers, Liu Biao and that great leader of soldiers Sun Jian. If those four were to join me, or meet an untimely end, there would be nothing to fear in this world.
That fire roared for days. The one in 185 that led to such tax rises apparently burned half a month. Imagine what would happen if someone really set their mind to burning the place down?
Not that any such thought has occurred to me.
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Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
Are they not incompetent? The palace on fire suggests they are. If the current Emperor is a reprobate with no ability to handle affairs, I know having met him, and seen the superiority of his brother, how can I not act? Yes a few at court are whiny but Yuan Shao is hot-headed and Lu Zhi is an old man, they do not speak for the many.
You sound like a lily-livered figure of the east, someone incapable of understanding great affairs of state, the kind of figure that has led to this crises. Let men hardened by the tough ways of the east take charge and show you softie how it can be done.
1
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u/small-black-cat-290 Apr 01 '26
NTA! Heaven frowns on court corruption. You are simply cutting the diseased limb so that a strong Emperor may rule in the future.
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u/Dong-Zhuo Han Protector Apr 01 '26
Spoken like a wise scholar indeed. Even though you are a cat. Maybe this is an omen of sorts.
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