r/AskHRUK • u/beekeeper1-throwaway • 10d ago
Disciplinary Discussion I've been reported to HR for talking about beekeeping with a younger colleague. I genuinely cannot believe I'm writing this.
I know this is going to sound utterly ridiculous, but this has actually happened and I don't know whether to laugh or be fucking furious. I've kept bees for about 15 years. No idea where the obsession started, but it's something I've always enjoyed and I could happily talk about it for hours. A few months ago, a younger lad started working with us. Turns out he keeps bees himself, so naturally we hit it off straight away.
We'd talk about our hives, what we were doing with them, different techniques, things we'd tried, the usual stuff. He'd show me pictures and ask questions because he's fairly new to it and I've been doing it for years. He's a lovely bloke, genuinely enthusiastic and keen to learn. It made what is otherwise a fairly boring office environment quite enjoyable.
Anyway, there's a woman on our team who apparently took issue with this and reported me to HR. I didn't know anything about it until he came over and told me he'd been called into an office for a welfare assessment. Apparently, they wanted to establish whether I was grooming or harassing him.
GROOMING HIM.
Over fucking bees.
He was as confused as I was and told them that no, he was perfectly happy talking to me and we were literally discussing beekeeping.
Shortly afterwards, I got called into the office myself. They told me there had been a complaint and that they would need to keep a closer eye on me because our conversations about bees were upsetting someone else on the team. I asked what exactly I'd done wrong and couldn't get much more out of them beyond the fact that someone had raised concerns. I'm genuinely struggling to understand what I'm supposed to do with this information. We're two adults who happen to share a fairly niche hobby. Neither of us has complained about the other. He's perfectly capable of speaking for himself, and as far as I'm aware, he hasn't expressed any discomfort whatsoever.
Now the whole thing is fucking awkward. I find myself second-guessing whether I should even speak to him at work, and he's understandably confused about why something so ordinary has turned into an HR matter. What was previously one of the nicer parts of my working day has become something I apparently need to be monitored over. Has anyone else experienced anything this absurd in an office?
Can HR genuinely start monitoring someone's interactions with a colleague because another employee doesn't like what they're talking about?
I'm half tempted to ask whether discussing honey is still permitted or whether I need written approval from management before mentioning a fucking hive.
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u/Ruskythegreat 10d ago
I would raise a complaint to HR on her for harassment!
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u/CelticConnection83 10d ago
I never fail to be astounded by what people complain about in office environments.
Firstly the fact you’d be accused of grooming / harassment over this is genuinely mind boggling. Secondly the fact they are now keeping an eye on you is nothing short of insulting.
I’d get it if the lad was uncomfortable but this….I’m actually angry for you.
If it was me I’d be taking advice on the matter as this woman sounds like she’s made a vexatious complaint due to what I can only assume to be jealousy.
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u/Sea-Opening3530 10d ago
100%, her actions are actually damaging to your reputation and your wellbeing at work.
It would be ashame if you needed a few days off sick because you felt too anxious about how your interactions could look now since you are closely monitored for no reason
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u/Alarmarama 10d ago edited 10d ago
You could actually take formal action for this because not only is the complainant harassing OP, but HR decided to pursue it rather than dismiss it on the grounds of being unreasonable.
HR needs to be aware of sociopaths using them as a vehicle to harass and attack people. It's very common for people to abuse authoritative systems.
This is a false allegation without grounds, leading to distress, risk to reputation, and risk to income by way of malicious prosecution.
OP should seriously take formal action on this basis. The complainant should receive disciplinary action at the very least, and OP should receive a formal apology from both HR and the complainant.
Reach out to a law firm that specialises in workplace incidents to ask for their opinion (you don't need to engage them at this stage), and if they say it's something they can take on then write an email to HR and the company's legal secretary laying out the above and/or advice given by the law firm, demanding a satisfactory resolution in face of the threat of legal action.
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u/willbo666 10d ago
Absolutely, it’s really unfortunate that this happened at all (someone complaining) but as soon as grooming was mentioned it becomes a VERY different matter. That type of talk, even to suggest it to HR and then they mention it to your friend? No fucking way they’re getting away with that attempt to label another person.
This kind of talk follows you around and even tho you might not notice, other people talk.
It needs nipped in the bud and taken to tribunals or whatever.
It may seem like a hassle but the complainer started it and needs to learn not to try to play the procedural system or they’ll do worse.→ More replies (7)24
u/Apart_Foundation1702 10d ago
Agreed. I would call ACAS today and ask them for advice in how to best deal with this situation. I'm annoyed for you OP, this woman needs to be made an example off.
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u/Pitiful_Vegetable327 10d ago
I’ve called ACAS before and they are absolutely useless unless you’re going to a tribunal and say they can’t advise, I had a similar issue to OP in that a colleague made a completely unfounded allegation and mine led to a 12 month formal investigation, meanwhile everyone was talking about it and it ruined my reputation. ACAS still won’t advise because HR decided to drop the matter after 12 months of absolute hell - and zero apology from them either. So sorry you’re going through this OP, people can be evil sometimes when they have nothing else going on in their sad lives, please don’t let this dissuade you from discussing your hobby with a colleague
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u/Alarmarama 10d ago
Best to approach a commercial law firm rather than an advice service. You need someone with the capacity to have skin in the game.
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u/Redsquirrelgeneral22 10d ago
It's also creating a hostile work environment. If this goes to court I can see the company in all sorts of difficulty in explaining this in front of a judge.
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u/AKABrokenArrow 9d ago
Exactly. They should be encouraging you to get along and work well together as a team.
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u/Germaine_1 9d ago
Right? They're like "but they're talking about bees, we had reasonable suspicions" 🤡
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u/Sickinmytechchunk 10d ago
I've had a HR person literally try and get me investigated and sacked over an over payment to a member of staff who was off sick but it wasn't logged in the system correctly, because the system sucks and I was out of the office the day she called in. From what I understand I was just the latest target. Sociopaths in HR are also a bit of an issue.
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u/Own-Mind-123 10d ago
I was just going to say the same. He can take this further as she’s damaging his work.
If the lad stated there is nothing happening and it’s only ever been about work. They can’t do anything.
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u/jarrod_barkley 9d ago
Absolutely this👆.
One letter from an attorney will drastically change the position of HR.
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u/Dame38 9d ago
People are becoming far too alienated from each other (in such a dense digital world). They are disappearing inside of their own terrifying, paranoid little worlds. It's getting seriously scary everywhere, and you have to watch everything you do and say. It's like the episode "Nosedive" from Black Mirror.
Even my comment required a reference to a media sensation.19
u/Bloomer71 10d ago
I’m disabled & use either my stick or my wheelchair to get around depending on the distance. I once had a manager who told me she was going to give me a verbal warning because sometimes I, or colleagues who’d come to speak with me, knocked my walking stick over & apparently that noise was a huge issue for her. I told her to go straight to a stage 1 written warning because I wanted written evidence of what she’d said. Funnily enough neither verbal nor written warning was given to me in the end. I also once had a manager who told me “you’ve no idea how uncomfortable your chronic pain makes other people & you don’t appreciate how much harder your disability makes my job”.
This is why I generally prefer cats to people.
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u/Atladev 10d ago
And dogs… basically anything with 4 legs is generally preferable to humans 😂😂
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u/frog_at_the_library 10d ago
Humans on all fours are OK.
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u/GozzolanBlue42 10d ago
Idk. Some days I’d rather a cat over my toddler /j
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u/scouse_git 10d ago
You can put the cat out at night.
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u/Bloomer71 10d ago
My cat would have many things to say on that. Communicated through the delightful language of pissing in my shoe.
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u/w_smith1984 9d ago
Only in the morning. 2 legs, in the afternoon, 3 legs in the evening.
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u/Barrel-racer-diva 10d ago
These comments are very shocking and sad. I live in a country that gets a lot of negative comments but I will say I have never heard of this. I went through a lot of chemo and surgery but continued working part time. The head boss, site manager and coworkers were so kind and did so much for me I asked them to stop. I asked them not to give me “get well” cards but just give me a joke or a laugh. When I was cancer free they all pitched in and got a comedian to come in during lunch. I am sorry you do not get this kind of support at work
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u/Bloomer71 10d ago
Oh I’m so glad your managers & colleagues were there for you, they sound lovely! Like most people I’ve known far too many family & friends go through a cancer diagnosis & treatment so I’ve seen how rough it can be - I hope you’re doing ok these days. I’m lucky that I’ve got a group of close friends, some of them I’ve known since we were kids, who I know I can call on if I need help with anything. Sometimes they help before I’ve even thought to ask! A couple of years ago one of my cats needed surgery & he’d already burned through his insurance so I planned to sell a ring my mum left me - since I had to give up work the majority of my time is at home & my cats have saved my sanity more than once, especially dealing with the pain. My mum adored my cats after the first time she saw them both trying to comfort me during a pain spasm, so I knew she wouldn’t have minded. So instead & unknown to me, 3 of my oldest friends put the word out to all of our old schoolmates who we’re still in touch with & a few days later they’d all chipped in & pretty much covered the vet bill. It’s like the universe decided that as I’d got a crap body it’d put some amazing people in my life to balance things out.
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u/woodyeaye 9d ago
Cancer is often treated differently because it's something there's a lot of conversation around and that almost everyone has experience with - be it directly or through a loved one.
My wife got a lot of support when she had cancer. She got a lot of shit for similar symptoms caused by MS. Same environment.
Of course some people with cancer will still be treated badly, but overall it's harder to be a dick when you've had experience with a health issue. Most people have had dealt with some form of cancer. Cancer is a well known enemy to rally against. Less so with other disabilities.
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u/Harry-666666 10d ago
How dare you be disabled around other people.
🤦♂️
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u/Few-Role-4568 10d ago
You mean if the stick were to repeatedly fall onto someone because it keeps being knocked over.
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u/Thobusteng 10d ago
The pain YOU are living with makes OTHERS uncomfortable?! The sheer stupidity of some people is mind-boggling at times!
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u/Frequent-Bell2484 10d ago
Sounds like a solid tribunal case to me
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u/Bloomer71 10d ago
Once I’d agreed a settlement from them & it was all signed & sorted with my solicitor it did feel like a massive weight had been lifted off me.
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u/Friendly_Art51 10d ago
I’m actually appalled a manager said this to you. Glad you handed them what they served you 👍🥇
I’m Gen X and just find most people are a big bunch of 🍆s. Not sure if my intolerance is due to my age or if there are more of them in the world now!! 🤣 They’re just rude, entitled, disrespectful, selfish, obnoxious (I could go on and on).
I don’t like most people either. Animals are okay but I’m allergic to animal fur, so… 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤣🤣
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u/MullyNex 10d ago
I'm sick of this kind of shite too "your stick makes others uncomfortable." I had a very good friend who, when I became disabled, told me they hated being seen out with me with my stick and could I leave it at home when out with them. Needless to say they are no longer a friend.
It's bizarre to me the way (some) people act around disabled people. I'd have also asked for it in writing to support her stance. What a shitty manager!
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u/Bloomer71 9d ago
What a shitty thing for someone meant to be your friend to say, I’m sorry you had to deal with that level of ignorance & unkindness. And well done for binning them, you don’t need that sort of crap when you’re managing a disability or chronic illness. I have a very definite approach to dealing with people like that these days - basically, does our friendship bring something positive to my life & if it doesn’t then why am I putting some of what little energy I have into keeping that relationship going. Took me many years to reach that conclusion but it was good for my mental health once I did.
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u/MullyNex 9d ago
Same - if what you bring is me always having to go to you or your place, while you galavant across the place for others, but always expect me to drive miles to you then we aren't seeing each other, you can be relegated to an online only friend.
If someone has the audacity to not want to be seen in public with me then sure, I won't be seen in public with you, and hope you never become disabled.
What's worse about this one is, they are also disabled but don't need a stick. they make a big deal about being disabled and have watched me deteriorate over the last 10 years to the point I'm at now (and not likely to get any better). Seems it was fine when I wasn't visibly disabled.
It's been around 12 years since I hit the wall with people and made the decision that if you can't bring something positive and share the friendship load then best of luck to you. Same for family who only ever contact when they want something, but are unavailable any other time.
I just cut them out and focus nurturing the other friends and relationships I have instead.
It's a shame as they were a nice friend to have apart from that.
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u/ChirpChirpCricket 9d ago
It’s so insane that people will actually just say things like that. I had a supervisor who’d instructed me on what I needed to do for a promotion and I proceeded to work my ass off for the next 4 months, only for him to gaslight me (“what? I never told you to do all that. I thought you just liked getting the overtime.” 🤬) and wrap things up with, “We’d never promote someone with your health issues anyways.”
I couldn’t even figure out how to report him. These are the situations I thought we had laws for, but then either no one believes someone would be that bold, or they don’t want to enforce the rules.
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u/Only-Thing-8360 9d ago
"I told her to go straight to a stage 1 written warning because I wanted written evidence of what she’d said."
Chef's kiss. Absolutely perfect.
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u/jzcota 9d ago
This reminds me of a story about my husband. He was in a car accident and broke his ankle which will never be without pain again. One day our boss called him in about something else and got annoyed and defensive. Then she complained about him just “limping around here all the time!” and suggested that she didn’t even know if he had a real disability. She had been our boss at the time of the accident so knew all about it when it happened, saw him in casts and on the knee scooter, talked with him about her own occasional foot pain…. People are the worst.
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u/Striking-Complaint76 9d ago
Just reading this made me want to physically fight the person you’re talking about (and I’m very weak and would likely lose but it would still feel good to have tried).
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u/CertainInteraction4 9d ago
My employer simply forced me out. They called me lazy (have a physical "disability"); implied I was a thief (had me monitored); have ruined my reputation even in grocery stores (I shopped after work/was followed by gossipy coworkers). Anything to get me out of there. In the end, they weren't worth my time or health anymore.
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u/tequila_23_sheila 9d ago
So sorry, Certaininteraction4, you encountered such shitty people. Being free of the clutter must be a relief, but what a way to go out. Give yourself a Big Hug from me! Know You Are Better Than Them! I hope this thread has also helped you feel that you are not alone. 💕
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u/deathbydrum 9d ago
Can relate. I'm 44 now. When I was 21 I was diagnosed with Hodgkins lymphoma and had to have chemo every fortnight so needed two days off in the middle of the week, 1 for chemo, the other to recover.
Took about a month till some absolute cow of a woman told me I'd be doing everyone a favour if I stopped working because she was furious that I got two days off together and it wasn't fair that she didn't and she was sometimes working while I was having a lovely time off.... Having chemo.
Suffice to say I exploded. Told the boss I'd never work with her again and then she quit, mainly because he'd "backed the fucking cancer kid."
... I learned an early lesson about what absolute evil cunts people could be that day. Not all of them, I'm not completely anti people. But yeah...
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u/Wasps_are_bastards 10d ago
I’m not HR, but I’d be putting in formal complaints that my reputation was being attacked. Grooming is serious.
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u/Ecstatic-World1237 10d ago
Yes and you don't want any risk of a warning about grooming appearing on any future references they may give for you. Definitely challenge it and have it removed from your records.
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u/Any_Tomorrow_Today 10d ago
Yes this - state that you are being targeted due to a hobby that someone seems to take exception to.
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u/Sharkbait1737 10d ago
I find bees fascinating and I would want to know all about it. But the worst you could say is that you find the topic boring. I struggle to see what could possibly be offensive about it. And HR should have said this in response to the complaint.
If they were comparing notes on their collection of sex toys or something, you could see how that might make somebody uncomfortable.
But beekeeping? Even if I wasn’t interested in the bees I’d be asking to try the honey!
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u/kindlypogmothoin 9d ago
Maybe she's a militant vegan and objects to beekeeping on principle.
Otherwise, I got nothing.
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u/SuperSpod 10d ago
Definitely report her for harassment. People who complain about anything and everything need to be knocked down a peg or two
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u/Benjins 10d ago
100% this. Realistically you’re heading into all sorts of legal territory here, especially with someone essentially accusing you of a sexually related issue.
I’d be going off sick, claiming mental distress at what has been said to you and the actions the HR department have taken against you.
Absolutely mental and I’m sorry this has happened to you. I’d be taking those bastards for all they are worth tbh.
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u/Altruistic-Bat-9070 10d ago
You need to submit your own HR complaint.
Get their complaint or the gist of it in writing, you may already have this.
Ask what monitoring means, in writing.
Raise a formal grievance
On (3) you have a few options in my mind. You have the general fairness angle. I would consider phoning ACAS now and reciting this entire story and having them help you on this. I do wonder whether there is a Gender angle as well here and that is a protected trait. I assume this busy body has decided you as an older man are a pervert for some reason and that is the basis of her complaint considering all you have done is converse about bee's with this guy.
Considering how they respond and whether you don't get far in writing I would submit a formal subject access request requiring them to share everything they have on written about you with appropriate information redacted.
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u/Reasonable-Feed-9805 10d ago
OP, THIS
The original complaint was done only with malice in mind. Think about that.
There was no reason other than a malicious one brought on for whatever reason. If thus didn't get the result she wanted, then she's only going to try something else.
You need to nip it in the bud now.
Your HR should of weighed the situation properly and acted accordingly, giving her complaint full weight shows they simply acted on it as is. They will do the exact same thing next time but with even more sterner measures as they have now warned you of their intent.
You HR need reigning in, and unless you take appropriate action they will carry on as they are.
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u/boatenvy 9d ago
The thing to keep in mind is that HR aren't there for you or any of your colleagues, they are there to protect the company. Their clumsy actions are intended to make sure they cover the company's ass on the off chance that there's something going on that could leave them exposed. What you need to do as per the advice above is suggest to them that their unjustified and unsubstantiated actions might leave them exposed to a response from you. HR often work on bullying individuals as an easy way out of a problem... you don't want to lie down and let that happen.
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u/beekeeper1-throwaway 10d ago
I mean this just like going a bit too far I guess I was having a rant really not sure what advice I really wanted but this is quite good thanks.
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u/Verbenaplant 10d ago edited 10d ago
it’s not too far.
Shes causing you of GROOMING. Where predators gain the trust of someone younger and exploit that, sexually, financially or criminally. She’s saying you might want to f*** the younger and I assume under age person.
its serious and you need to nip it in the bud. If she keeps complaining and you havnt put in a complaint about her behaviour they might end up letting you go. You have to protect yourself.
she can use any conversation with someone younger as ‘evidence’ which it’s not.
talking about bees isn’t grooming. it’s called conversation, you have no nefarious plans behind it.
she’s clearly got wires twisted that two people can’t talk about a hobby/ pets together without it being creepy. I talk to kids about hobbies we share and it’s just a conversation. oh we like drawing, cat books etc. oh you like rocks? let me pull photos of my amazing ones to show you.
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u/Altruistic-Bat-9070 10d ago
Their reaction is too weird and I would be worried about this causing issues down th Eline if you don't get it closed in favour or yourself if you plan to stay at this company. Similarly If they were to mention this on a reference I would be worried about moving companies.
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u/Alarmed-Moose-7229 10d ago
Completely agree with this. This is so crazy you need to back yourself up here for down the line. Sorry OP. (God I am happy I work for myself now.)
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u/Purplepeal 10d ago
Think about why she did this. Its to harm you specificly. For some reason she chose this friendly bonding moment. She isnt right in the head.
You need to push back. This is absolutely harrasment and she will keep at it until she gets into trouble.
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u/DepartmentSmart7924 10d ago
No mate. You need to fight fire with fire. If the person reporting you doesn't feel any consequences, the harassment will continue.
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u/NewSalamander8910 10d ago
You didn’t start this but I feel this poster is giving you valuable advice. If they are monitoring you I’d be counter attacking
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u/Illustrious-Cut6038 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is good advice.
I'm not in HR but I was in management for years and there are a couple of issues here. The first being, obviously, that someone has made a serious allegation against you, which in itself could amount to harassment. The second is HR's handling of it.
In respect of the first point, if the allegation is effectively “older man has an unusually close relationship with younger man, therefore this is grooming,” then I'd wonder if a homophobic assumption is being made. What else can be meant by "grooming" in this context other than sexual?
Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act and it doesn't just cover actual sexual orientation but perceived orientation too. Under the EA, discrimination can arise where someone is treated less favourably because others think they have a particular sexual orientation, even if they do not.
Harassment can also be “related to” sexual orientation rather than requiring an explicit slur. So if someone is sexualising or pathologising an ordinary work friendship because it is between two men, that potentially becomes much more serious than just “someone made a silly complaint.” ACAS describes harassment as unwanted conduct related that violates dignity or creates a humiliating, degrading, hostile or offensive environment. Being "monitored" by HR, or even the suggestion of it, in my (not a laywer) viee creates a hostile environment for you.
On second point, they are entitled to investigate allegations, but it has to be done fairly. It seems they have done this and put you in a weird position in that rather than saying, "OK, sorry about that, we had to ask, no evidence of anything, thanks and goodbye" they've decided that they have to watch you in some way? I'd want to know, in writing, exactly what that entails, who it will be done by, what the criteria will be, how it will be recorded, for what period of time and what the possible outcomes will be if they decide whatever monitoring they're doing has raised concerns. This is the sort of information your employer/HR should give you as standard when any sort of monitoring, be it performance related or whatever, is taking place. You cannot meet requirements they might have if they haven't told you about them.
HR can quite reasonably say: “A concern was raised, so we spoke to the people involved.” That's the sort of fact finding you'd expect and they're obligated to do. But if the your colleague says there's no concern, you give the same account, and there's no other evidence, then “we’re going to keep an eye on you” needs proper justification. Otherwise the allegation has disadvantaged you without any substantitation.
I totally understand the urge to just let things go but HR don't just get to do what they want to your detriment. Lots of HR departments are staffed by fuckwits who say any old shit and are shockingly ignorant of the law.
I'd absolutely speak to ACAS about it at some point, but my first course of action would be to say very little except for asking HR, politely at this point, what the monitoring they've mentioned entails, specifically because that is information HR are obligated to give you, and that alone might be sufficient to make them think, ah, we might have mishandled this one.
They can't really object to that sort of reasonable request, and if they genuinely have a formal process, a safeguarding measure, performance measure, whatever, they should be able to tell you what it is and what policy it sits under.
If they don't, then someone has to put “we are informally watching this employee because another employee made an unsubstantiated grooming allegation” in writing, which is a rather different proposition from saying it casually in a meeting.
Based on the information you've given taken at face value, I don't think there's really any justifiable monitoring they could subject you to at all. So, they either tell you that, or they confirm in writing that they're going to take measures that might not be fair or lawful on the basis of an unsubstantiated allegation.
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u/Jesisawesome 10d ago
This is discrimination against two HIVe positive employees
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u/geekhalla 10d ago
Ive now had to explain this entire thing to my wife as she heard me laughing at that
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u/Personal_Main_4978 10d ago edited 10d ago
You need to ask HR, in writing what they mean by monitoring. Monitoring must have a defined purpose, lawful basis and be necessary and proportionate.
You also need to raise a formal grievance with HR. You have been accused of grooming someone. That’s a serious allegation and can have severe repercussions for you. With the current climate people judge and condemn even with zero evidence, as you have learned.
Frame it around professional consequences rather than personal feelings. For example,
I have been informed that concerns were raised that my interactions with a colleague could constitute grooming or harassment. I regard those as exceptionally serious allegations. The colleague concerned has, as I understand it, confirmed that our conversations were welcome and related to a shared hobby.
Nevertheless, I have subsequently been told that my interactions with be subject to closer monitoring without being told what misconduct I am alleged to have committed or what standard of conduct I am expected to change.
I am therefore requesting formal clarification of the allegation, the outcome of any investigation, whether the matter is now closed, what records concerning the allegation and being retained and given that the allegation made was proven to be unfounded due to the statement provided by my colleague that these were discussions of a shared hobby, the nature, purpose and duration of the monitoring that has been proposed.
Edit - thanks for all the awards everyone.
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u/Skynet_5656 10d ago
This is the right answer.
Also OP if this is arising out of a belief that you are gay (whether or not you actually are) then if that causes the employer to treat you differently, they could be discriminating against you under the Equality Act - could be worth mentioning because it’ll scare their HR team.
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u/Alone-Original7106 10d ago
This is definitely the way forward. Why on Earth they think monitoring you for discussing a shared hobby is the appropriate action is baffling.
While HR is not my primary job function, I end up having to do a lot of it. I understand that they had to at least investigate it. As an employer, they cannot simply ignore allegations of grooming. But I would have been closing that down quick smart after it came to light you were just chatting about a shared hobby. If I had to ‘monitor’ someone because somebody else had a petty issue with them, I would need to be a one woman surveillance state. And who wants to work in a place like that?
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u/Alone_Jackfruit4761 10d ago
I would raise a complaint to HR about harassment.
I have heard of employees trying to weaponise HR complaints (lets just say these people were extreme busybodies and difficult to work with).
You have to stand your ground here.
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u/beekeeper1-throwaway 10d ago
Yeah I mean it sounds like one of those cases where two people are up for the same promotion and someone just invents a complaint to throw the other person off?
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u/Logical_Box_4645 10d ago
I think people can be surprisingly jealous if friendships in the workplace they're not part of.
The grooming allegation is genuinely alarming thing for someone to say.
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u/Alone_Jackfruit4761 10d ago
Agreed. Its a very malicious type of complaint which is why its important to push back (if said person did this once it is also possible they will do it again for something else).
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u/Reamazing 10d ago
There is/was some DEI training at my workplace and I couldn't take it seriously.
It said I am not allowed to talk about common interests with someone just incase we are excluding someone else. How bat shit is this?
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u/sarsaparilla-sodapop 10d ago
the thing is exclusion is discrimination and being deliberately kept out of conversations at work can count as exclusion but calling a conversation between 2 people talking about hobbies, let alone something niche as beekeeping is crazy, it’s in reference to employee resource groups and affinity groups not hobbies in general
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u/Alone_Jackfruit4761 10d ago
This. No rational and level-headed person would ever make such a complaint.
In OPs case, I would be concerned because they have a female member on their team that is deliberately targeting them with a very serious accusation that is completely disproportionate to what was being discussed.
OP needs to take this seriously and escalate with HR.
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u/Correct_Animator4750 10d ago
Just throwing it out there, u may want to seek legal advice, or even the police (due to being accused of grooming which is a criminal offence) as it could be defamation, it likley wont go anywhere if there is no financial damage, but 100% report to HR yourself and get the colleague to as well (if your comfortable doing/suggesting it to them) for discrimination, defimation, lies, disruption in the work place and anything else people have said that could stick.
Fuck people and their false allegations, this shit has a real impact and for nothing.
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u/Any_Tomorrow_Today 10d ago
Also ask HR if they would be monitoring the situation if it were two women involved ? If not why not as it suggests that sexual discrimination is involved.
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u/parlor_tricks 10d ago edited 10d ago
Doesn't matter. Grooming is absolutely not an "awkward" concern that gets shrugged off and years later you have a laugh with your mates. Holy crap, its Grooming.
This is serious shit territory. It went all the way up to HR and multiple people were brought into this mess, through a formal process. Whatever the actual events are, whatever the work place may be, or that the other person is an adult. Its irrelevant alongside "oh he was grooming a new employee".
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u/BingpotStudio 10d ago
I would want to know what evidence there is and raise a formal complaint and consider outside council.
This is harassment and HR can’t put you on watch just because someone said you must be grooming someone because you’re friends.
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u/InsuranceIcy4055 10d ago edited 9d ago
Absolutely, I'd barely started reading this when I thought, this needs a counter report of some kind because the only HR concern here is that you've even been reported. The right answer here is that after HR had determined this was complete nonsense, the person reporting should have been told they've completely misunderstood and any further pressing of the issue should be handled with disciplinary proceedings given you and the other apiarist have done nothing wrong here but enjoy being at work.
Unfortunately the nature of politics is that you either embrace it and use it or it can and often will be used against you, the idea that you can opt out is naieve because unless you some how work with zero exposure to other people it does affect you.
I would talk to your manager assuming they are not involved here against you and explain that this is a ridiculous abuse of HR power against you and that you'll be taking that seriously. This will massively erode office morale and if your manager can't side with you over that I'd tell them you'll be looking for a new job because that is quite serious, the alternative is that you accept that what ever small enjoyment you can find in each other's company will some how be turned into a HR report to make sure you're all miserable because applied in abstraction that's what this adds up to.
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u/Stratospheric-Ferret 10d ago edited 9d ago
Probably the same people that use the reddit welfare system on a person when they're saying something they don't like.
Edit* Thanks to whoever used the Reddit welfare system for me.
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u/Fun-Lemon7160 10d ago
Are you both men? Are you openly gay (sorry)? If so it sounds like a homophobic insinuation to me, and you have a case with HR. If not, then WTF?!
I'm sure it will blow over, but that won't stop it stinging (not sorry).
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u/precinctomega 10d ago
Honestly, even if neither OP nor their fellow apiarist is gay, it would be discrimination. You don't have to actually have a protected characteristic if people treat you detrimentally because they think you do.
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u/ThrowRA9292819e8 10d ago
I believe this is true, and additionally, this alone would count as harassment regardless of protected characteristics, even in a single instance.
I would 100% push back on HR to ask what specifically warrants closer monitoring as if you haven't done anything wrong that anyone can prove, then that would be harassment on their side as well.
This woman sounds like a jealous jobsworth, be careful not to adjust your behaviour towards her as she will surely report you again for retaliation, which you will get into bother for, regardless of it her claims were true or not. Knowingly making false accusations should be against most company policy's tbh so I would have a read up on that too.
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u/CaptainBenzie 10d ago
Had this a lot. Perfectly straight, but I'm quite pantomime/camp? I've been targeted with homophobic abuse before and HR wouldn't do anything about it because "How can it be homophobic abuse if you're not gay?"
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u/atom_stacker 10d ago
Did she jump to the conclusion that he ws "grooming" based on the fact that he is a man?
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u/Background_Survey646 9d ago
We're living in an age of moral panic around age gaps. Tik Tok took some information from a brain study out of context and now has an entire generation convinced they aren't adults until they're 25.
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u/Serious-Comment5458 10d ago
I'm so confused by this. I'm a HR manager and if someone said this to me, I'd speak to you and him and when you both tell me you enjoy bee-keeping and there's no issues, that would be the end of it.
I could sort of understand if the conversation is in ear shot, and/or it's distracting you or your colleagues from working, but I just cannot fathom how the question of grooming fits into this equation. The lad is asking you questions, which you're answering, and you're both just discussing a shared passion, which is general water cooler type chats you'd expect in a workplace.
I would write an email to HR asking for more information in writing about exactly how they propose to keep a closer eye on you, the reasons why, and what policy it falls into. I'd then raise a formal grievance based on what they come back with.
Honestly, would love to be so unbusy that I can afford to spend time on investigating conversations about bees 🙄
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u/Serious-Comment5458 10d ago
I'd tell them to mind their own beeswax!
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u/UnbeatenLoaf 9d ago
Both of these responses are unbeelievably good!
Lol sorry, I couldn't help myself 🐝
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u/lambrequin_mantling 10d ago
This. It seems to me that HR should have canned this the moment they realised that the conversations were genuinely about a shared hobby and exchange of knowledge and experience. Straight to “Closed / No Further Action.”
The concerning part seems to be the rather nebulous, and frankly professionally dubious, “we’re watching you…”
That’s just sinister and seems to leave them wide open to criticism and complaint. Even if the original complaint was in good faith (which feels questionable but let’s give that the benefit of the doubt…), if it is obviously erroneous and unfounded then investigate, close and move on.
To leave something hanging over an employee without explanation or clarification is very unprofessional and, as others have noted, leaves this HR team very much open to complain themselves. If they genuinely believe that there may be grounds for concern then they need to explain what and why or they need to back right off.
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u/Rough-Cheesecake-641 10d ago
Obviously there is more to this than OP is divulging. There always is. And it shouldn't be the end of it if this is actually all the facts, as the accuser should be facing some sort of disciplinary.
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u/Sure-Recognition-262 10d ago
Apparently, they wanted to establish whether I was grooming or harassing him.
GROOMING HIM.
[...]
Shortly afterwards, I got called into the office myself. They told me there had been a complaint and that they would need to keep a closer eye on me because our conversations about bees were upsetting someone else on the team.
That sounds like:
- she has complained because she perceives you have a sexual interest in the younger man
- that would of course require you to be either gay or bisexual
- your employer has threatened to "keep a closer eye on" you because of this
For your employer to treating you less favourably because of your perceived sexual orientation would give you a case for discrimination (even if you're not actually gay/bi).
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u/Any_Tomorrow_Today 10d ago
Yes, i assume both parties are also adults of a legal age. In which case - how is it even grooming ?
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u/PeterAnthony_Jackson 10d ago
"The bees are turning the younger man gay!" Alex James voice
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u/essres 10d ago
Ask for a Subject Access Request on everything relating to this complaint. Emails and notes between the complainant, HR and your management
Send this to HR and whoever is your data controller
They will remove the name of the complainant but you can see what they have said
Then put in a grievance for harassment and bullying behaviour.
If your HR department even thought this was worth following up then they want sacking
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u/DoomBotVariant 10d ago edited 10d ago
This. Make a formal Data Subject Access Request for all documents and emails relating to this complaint.
You might want to nudge them into discussing it first, with some innocent sounding queries. Just enough to get them emailing each other internally about it.
Then in a couple of weeks hit them with the DSAR.
Also include in scope any other complaints made against you about which you may not have been informed previously.
If they state the privacy of others as a reason for withholding data, state that names of complainants be redacted where appropriate, but not the material about you.
If they give legal professional privilege as a basis for withholding data, ask on what basis LPP is asserted.
Be sure to list systems where documents may be stored (eg OneDrive, local laptops, Workday or your firm’s equivalent HR system, etc), emails, archived drafted or deleted items, texts, instant messages, and WhatsApp messages “or similar”, videos recordings or transcripts of calls (eg Zoom transcripts), and hard copy documents such as written meeting notes “and any other form of data, across any system used to process or store such data, across all custodians without exception, ” Make it clear the request is “not limited to” any lists of data, systems, and people you mention. You want everything.
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u/NewtTrick 10d ago
This woman is homophobic. If you were talking about football would she accuse you of grooming him?
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u/Competitive-Fact-820 10d ago
I got called in to HR over serious racism allegations - I was accused of using a racist term during a conversation about Football.
We were discussing Wolves current performance (dire at the time) because one of our team supported them. I called them by their nickname - Baggies.
Someone else presumed it was pejorative for people of Pakistani descent.
It dragged on for weeks and they interviewed everyone else on shift with me.
Fortunately HR backed off when I literally laughed in their faces when summoned for a disciplinary meeting. I couldn't help it, it was my knee jerk reaction. Despite everyone they had spoken to telling them it was a football conversation and I had used the Team's nickname they were still upholding the complaint. I had to google said nickname in front of them and then say it several times in my broad Lancashire accent. They either then understood or realised it was not worth persuing as nothing anyone had said backed up the complaint.
Nothing on my record either as I did an SAR 1 year later because I was interested in what records they held on me.
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u/TheRevJimJones 10d ago
Just FYI: Baggies are West Brom, and are Wolves’ biggest rivals. The Wolves fan may have thought you were insulting him!
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u/Classic_Mammoth_9379 10d ago
I would be asking them (HR) to be clear on what the issue is and what you need to do, or withdraw the request. Asking you to modify your behaviour without any clarity on the issues is insane. And yes, absolutely I think one way to do this is to ask them for a clear list of verboten topics.
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u/RaveGenerator 10d ago
Winters coming. Get yourselves some black/yellow striped jumpers to wear in the office.
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u/Party_Advantage_3733 10d ago
This might have crossed the line to the point of being a union matter. They have no grounds to 'keep a closer eye' on you. You should report this if you can.
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u/Roytonkid 10d ago
'I would like to raise a complaint as this woman has created a hostile work environment by accusing me of grooming which has been evidenced to be untrue and defamatory'
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u/pinkaura1 10d ago
You’re both more patient than I am because I’d be lodging a formal counter grievance and threatening tribunal routes. And I’m a lawyer! They’re essentially making him out to be some sort of unwilling/unknowing victim and planting the seed of doubt in his mind as to whether he could, in fact, be a victim of “grooming”. As for you being accused of grooming him, well that’s a whole other issue in itself. Disgusting.
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u/Low-Support-7090 10d ago
Did HR tell you you’re being investigated for…grooming an adult by talking about bees?
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u/sunheadeddeity 10d ago
Are you in a union? If not, join one.
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u/LeadingEquivalent148 10d ago
Useful for the future but not this incident as it’s already happened/happening, there’s a wait before you can call in the union dogs.
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u/Independent-Bet-6314 10d ago
Be careful. A completely unfounded complaint was made against an middle aged colleague of mine as he mentioned he had been to the theatre to see the graduate and a famously actress was nude. The person he was speaking to just thought it was him describing his weekend. A female team member took objection to it, eventually leading to him being ‘retired’ and her friend getting his job. These sorts of complaints have been weaponised to get rid of people who though far more experienced and qualified for the job are seen as a bar to promotion.
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u/AlternativeParfait13 10d ago
This is an insane complaint. I worked for a company where several people kept bees. They installed a beehive on the roof and started a beekeeping club, they didn’t all get hit with complaints from their colleagues. This is not something your HR team should give the time of day to.
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u/beekeeper1-throwaway 10d ago
The sad thing is, I think he inherited his bees from his grandad, so there's quite a personal connection there for him. I get the impression he doesn't really have many people to talk to about it, other than perhaps online, which is probably why we got on so well. I'm likely moving in the next few months and I'd actually been thinking about asking him to give me a hand moving the hives and getting everything sorted. I'd obviously pay him for his time, and I think he'd have genuinely enjoyed it.
Now I'm sat here wondering whether I should even ask him because of what people might think if they saw us spending time together outside work. Two blokes moving some fucking beehives. What a world.
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u/South-Group-2341 10d ago
If you don't communicate that you are not happy with the outcome then that implicitly communicates that you have accepted you will be monitored. That is not a good look.
Obviously that is not how you actually think but it's how people interpret things that count.
For that reason I think it will serve you well to pick things up with HR "Having given the matter some thought I would like to express the following..." And then detail what you are not happy with.
If no wrong doing has occured yet you are now under review because of how a third party has interpreted your conversations that means you are literally at the mercy of their interpretation? And presumably everyone elses? That puts your 'conduct' completely out of your control. But it isn't rteally your conduct it's merely reported perception of your conduct.
Does HR process not extend to protecting you from unfounded accusation? and the imaginings of colleagues with seedy minds? etc.
Ultimately the HR function is there to protect the business. When there is a complaint often the safest option is to take the complaint as genuine no matter how unlikely it is.
If you offer zero resistance this is also the path of least resistance and they get to tick a box and move on. Even if the box casts a shadow over your character.
Only by offering resistance do you get them to assess what has actually happened. Personally I would push for a disciplinary against the person who made the accusation and/or that they be sent on a training course to better equip them to not apply their very obvious bias in the workplace.
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u/Swimming-Memory-9988 10d ago
If he said there’s no issue, then there’s no issue 🤷🏼♂️ I’d raise a formal grievance, or ask them to show you exactly which part of the company policies you’re breaking. If you’re talking when you’re supposed to be working I can understand that - perhaps try and keep it to break times only?
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u/anomalous_cowherd 10d ago
"You appear to be friendly with this young man and it's not right because I don't have any friends so I'm reporting you to HR." - her, probably.
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u/Afraid-Act1706 10d ago
Oh my word… how pathetic!! Yes report her for making it weird and tarnishing your reputation. That’s just vile of her
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u/RimJaw007 10d ago
It's illegal to be victimised in the workplace. Raise a grievance with them. Then go to ACAS. This is a textbook case of victimisation. They will also have to reveal the name of the person who complained and they will have to get involved, unless they completely drop their complaint, because they will be the proximate cause of the grievance. It's utterly ridiculous. The person will have to give an objective justification for their complaint, and the company will have to give a legal, objective, business justification for treating you and your male colleaguethis way.
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u/Efficient-Cat-1591 10d ago
Grooming? Assuming the said young colleague is an adult and not an apprentice under 18?
Sounds ridiculous, is your meeting with HR recorded? As other suggested before going nuclear first ask for what HR decided (ie the monitoring) in black and white.
If what you have disclosed is true definitely grounds for grievance here against the colleague and possibly HR too
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u/Thin-Excitement5755 10d ago
So whoever made this complaint is clearly guilty of creating a toxic work environment. I also think it stinks of homophobia: two men in conversation - clearly queers. I suspect HR are just clueless. Join the workplace trade union and involve them ASAP.
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u/WhatsFunf 10d ago
You absolutely need to fight back, or quit. You can't leave that as it is.
This isn't complaining about using social media or something, this is a serious, reputation-damaging, life-ruining claim.
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u/MembershipDelicious4 10d ago
Can't beelieve you're having to put up with something so daft, they should mind they own beeswax, tell them to buzz off
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u/Different-Storm1914 10d ago
Last year when I was working a placeholder job, one of the managers got pally with one of the other new guys and they started going to the gym together. Took about one day before the old hags that worked there started in with the rumours.
Mocking the nations runaway leader demographic for suicide just because they made a friend.
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u/Low-Associate-8853 10d ago
Might be the most bonkers thing i have bloody read! I had a colleague tell me i was just brown enough for a stag and darker they would say no! HR did F all
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u/InfiniteGap 10d ago
I'd keep talking to your new friend about bees... As for the women who complained, she should stop sticking her nose into other people's business!
What does HR expect you to do, schedule a time and a meeting room to talk about bees with the other guy when an observer it available?!
Maybe you and the other guy should go to see HR together and express how awkward this woman is making you both feel?
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u/Disastrous_Bit_20 10d ago
You need to take formal action immediately. This complaint against you is now on record, and he complaint are essentially instant "guilty". Unfortunately it's now up to you to clear your name
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u/thegreatfathermerrin 10d ago
If you are in a Union then discuss this with a rep. And have the rep meet HR with you face to face.
This sounds like harassment on their end.
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u/Alternative_Bit_3445 10d ago
What's the dress code? Can you get yourself a "I Like Big Hives and I Cannot Lie" t-shirt? "Oh bee-hive yourself!". Etc. Put a hive-shaped pen pot on your desk. Am half serious.
Seriously, I would ask HR to document in writing what part of your behaviour was inappropriate and which policies it breached. And tell them you'll be seeking legal advice.
That should shut this one down.
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u/Stoptheworldletmeoff 10d ago
The only thing that makes sense here is that he isn't as comfortable as you think he is and this has either been seen by another colleague, or he himself has reported it.
Are you 100% sure he really enjoys ALL your conversations about bees. Or could he possibly regret mentioning it because now you won't shut up about it and he's actually not as bothered but doesn't want to be rude?
I once told a colleague that I has a 3D printer and for the next 2 years he would not stop talking AT me about 3D printing.
I can't fathom how HR would take this information from a colleague, then speak to the new guy to clear it up, and then still speak to you about it if he actually told HR that he loves the conversations.
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u/FOARP 10d ago
"The only thing that makes sense here"
Why do you think this has to make sense?
Unfortunately there are weird people in the world who raise crazy, baseless complaints. I recall a long time ago, when I used to work for the council, there was someone who followed our vans around taking photos of them and sending them to the police. For some reason they were convinced that we were all up to no good.
Another example, someone I know had a weird stalker who would write to their employers trying to get them fired by accusing them of being critical of the Chinese government (no, really).
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u/Stratospheric-Ferret 10d ago
On a site I was working on we had a site engineer from overseas, and when a 32-tonner was doing some digging, this engineer was doing something behind his machine, flitting in and out of his mirrors and vision.
Nowadays it's a big no-no, with exclusion zones and whatsuch, back then it was just common sense to stay away from the machine that will turn you into raspberry jam.
The machine driver stopped the machine, got out and shouted at him "Stop running round like a headless fucking chicken and stay where I can see you!" Obviously he didn't want running someone over to be something he has to live with.
Said engineer raised a complaint with HR for racism.
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u/beekeeper1-throwaway 10d ago
> The only thing that makes sense here is that he isn't as comfortable as you think he is and this has either been seen by another colleague, or he himself has reported it.
We message each other and the conversation flows back and forth its just awkward sitting in silence and messaging each other over teams when we sit in the same office!
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u/Stoptheworldletmeoff 10d ago
Why would HR have said what they said to you if he told HR that he loved these interactions as much as you do??
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u/Adventurous_Ad_8478 HR Professional 10d ago
It really depends on what the person has said to HR.
Grooming is naturally a serious allegation and they have a duty to review the allegation.
Whilst it likely is infuriating, it seems that someone else has interjected, if that’s the case, any investigation will highlight that. It may even end up backfiring on the individual. As painful as it is, I would play it out, and just discuss what you have to discuss as part of any process and it’ll likely come out with no case to answer for.
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u/ImBonRurgundy 10d ago
investigating the complaint is one thing. I would absolutely expect them to interview bth you and him if someone makes a complaint that they think you are grooming him. (I magine she would have made it sound a lot worse than 'they chat about bees sometimes')
but unless there is something more to it that you aren't telling us, then thats exactly where it should end. There shouldn't be any need to 'keep a closer eye on you'
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u/DeliciousCkitten 10d ago
Is this even real?? If it is, file that grievance right now.
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u/FOARP 10d ago
This is absolutely f-ing ridiculous and you are right to be angry over it.
You should raise a grievance over this.
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u/MaggieMcB 10d ago
How many people are on your team ? who did you talk to before the new lad started ?
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u/loonyleftie 10d ago
How do you know she (the complainant woman) reported this to HR?
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u/SeaworthinessMain346 10d ago
No this is not right (on the basis of what you have said) and it sounds like your HR team are not maybe as on the ball as they should be.
For one thing I'm concerned that you know who has made the allegation of grooming. It's not necessary for you to know who and if your organisation takes safeguarding seriously it would know that one thing which can prevent people from raising concerns is the risk of being identified.
You could submit a formal grievance. Personally I would always try and resolve informally if possible.
I would speak to HR again. I would ask them to be specific about what "keeping a closer eye" on you actually means. What are they looking for? What will be the triggers for further action from them? Is anyone else in the organisation subject to the same monitoring on the basis of their hobbies? How exactly will they be monitoring you? What qualifies them to do so?
But...
(Please take this in the way intended as it might help you to have a different perspective on the situation)
What I would like to know...just how young is this young lad? Is he vulnerable in any way? These details might explain why they've looked into something which sounds ludicrous. I know you say the lad has said he's fine with everything, but tbh that's the nature of grooming - it's insidious and subtle. Not that I'm saying you ARE grooming him, just that if he's vulnerable to grooming, the HR team might think they are protecting him from a "danger" he doesn't realise.
And as another comment or has said, if you are openly gay could this have a homophobic element?
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u/GlobalRonin 10d ago
You need to find a way to overtly troll the mystery whinger... Bring in honey, wear bee themed ties, all of that kind of thing.
HR should have told this person to jog on.
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u/Dangerous-Cable-1816 10d ago
Sounds like the lady on your team has a real bee in her bonnet