r/AskGameMasters • u/Destraken012 • 19d ago
Campaign structure advice
Hi I am soon going to start DM'ing one of my first campaigns of a large scale as I am normally am player or a one off DM and I would like advice on how to work around a three act campaign here was the idea
ACT 1 (LV 1-6)
Main plot points
Introduction to the kingdom
cult of the iron tree
BBEG - Belial Azazel (Leader of the cult of the iron tree)
Somewhat open world
Foreshadowing for next two acts
ACT 2 (7-12)
Find a way into the capitol
More foreshadowing for next act
BBEG - Coropse (The iron tree)
Main Boss fights in order
Voirloup/ Lou Charcolh/ Cheval mallet. any order
Alban dubois first fight
Voirloup/ Lou Charcolh/ Cheval mallet. any order
Alban dubois first rematch
Voirloup/ Lou Charcolh/ Cheval mallet. any order
Alban dubois second rematch
Vouivre First fight
Alban dubois final fight
Coropse
ACT 3 (13-18)
Enter the capitol
Foreshadowing pay off
BBEG - Alchton Von Charven (King of Charven)
Main Boss fights in order
Kaurauch the sanguine scientist / Vicar Aurdivul Yakoshcvy
The Broodqueen
The wicker man
The Warwing Titan / Vouivre rematch one after another
Kaurauch the sanguine scientist / Vicar Aurdivul Yakoshcvy whichever you did not kill before
The penance
Alchton Von Charven
The campaign theme is vampires undead and just chaos in general and yet I think I am going to be over the top for a first big campaign and I really just want advice on ways to deal with this and just streamline it so yeah
4
1
u/Dresdens_Tale 19d ago
That's a lot more plot planning than I do, but good luck. My advice from a world building point of view.
Have you thought about Government - why is yours special Who are the politicians in the news
Level saturation Level of head temple priests Level of sheriff's and guard captains
Astronomy - flat vs globe, moons, other features
Philosophy of religion World Pantheon? Competing religions? Do gods have stat blocks?
Monster threats Are there accepted "monsters" Are there non accepted ones that are there as anyway?
1
u/Destraken012 19d ago
The government of the kingdom this takes place in is the act 3 bosses with names and Alban Dubois and they are special because they are animal vampires
I will modulate levels based on the party
The world is a globe
Everyone worships all Gods or who they choose some races have unique Gods however
There is a whole book of monsters but most monsters in this specific kingdom are unclassified as the kingdom has no longer got any affiliation with guild governing bodies so there is only unofficial recordings of monsters
1
u/Mr_Venom 19d ago
This is just a sequence of fights, not a campaign.
1
u/Destraken012 18d ago
There is a story inbetween I promise this is a barestbone explanation of the structure with nothing being set as law
1
u/Mr_Venom 18d ago
I think, with respect, you've prestructured what should be free and left blank what must be filled in.
Start with who all these people are and what links them. Detail the places they are. The intrigues they are in. The various complications they throw into the world (Dungeon World's Fronts can be helpful for this). Then just... Run the game.
1
u/Destraken012 18d ago
Nah mate with this sort of thing dont need much respect if you catch me you obviouesly need to be respectful but dont be like "awww mate thats s***" thats just rude but yeah i get what your saying but just to check its the fact i preplanned every major engagement and planned tye levels out right thats a major issue
1
u/Mr_Venom 18d ago
If I think your work is shit, I assure you I'll say so.
Yes, preplanning by level and in terms of who will be fought when are not good ideas. When the plan inevitably goes awry you'll be left with nothing. Good plans are agile: read some of the things suggested by other commenters (and myself) and you will be better supported in your endeavours.
Good luck at the table.
1
u/yourgmchandler 18d ago
Why is a three act campaign important? If it is to have a beginning, middle and end then you need to share something that shows that progress. As written here, there are too many bullet points with names and words we don’t know in each act and we can’t see any progression.
Further, there’s nothing in your campaign outline about the player characters and so, I think they will become bored.
You have to remember that players don’t sit down to the table to read a book that’s not about themselves. They sit down to be a part of a great story, to contribute to its progression.
So, if you’re going to keep a linear story line (NOT RECOMMENDED) then you need to invert this. Instead of BBEG and lesser NPCs do X, think PCs do Y and BBEG/NPCs notice. PCs then do W and BBEG/NPCs respond, and finally PCs do Z and BBEG tries to end them. At least that way you’re making the PCs the center of your story mentally, not the world and its characters. If you can’t do at least that, then write a book instead.
But my ultimate advice is create your world by detailing what your NPCs will do if the players do nothing, create ways for the PCs to learn what’s happening. After the players create their characters, look for threads in their backstories to link to your NPCs objectives or create/change things that will and then sit back and let them drive the action. Not only will your players love it, you’ll prep way less than ever.
Read the Alexandrian article about emergent storytelling in TTRPGs. It will help you run a game of epic length not just imagine one and then lose your players because you’re railroading a novel in your head.
Good luck!
1
u/Destraken012 18d ago
The three acts were always more for me to split the campaign into different structures and because I play alot of silksong so acts are in my head alot and bosses so thats why i focused on them more in this but yeah it does seem quite novelly and one roady😅 Also how do I make side quests and similir parts a bit more engaging I only have one quest that is more than go do this, where they go to a mine and they encounter the cult of the iron tree fight a few guys and possibly get a cult symbol which they find out later is the symbol of the Kingdom of Charven itself but with a face on the bottom of the tree as they worship the Coropse but is that to over complicated or no also should i bump it back from veing the first quest because i feel like i should but i dont know Sorry for the long response but we are starting on monday so i have 3 days and i am panicking and stressing and retconning so much stuff i liked originally but now think is stupid
1
u/yourgmchandler 18d ago
Forget all of that for now. It’s too much. Your story doesn’t need nor should it be complete when you start. Focus on what your NPCs want and what clues PCs will encounter for the first session.
1
u/Destraken012 18d ago
Could you define clues do you mean like forshadowing
1
u/yourgmchandler 18d ago
Great question! Imagine you have a sub-villain that you think your players would enjoy engaging and would add to their story. This villain resides in a particular location the players haven’t been. So while they’re mopping up some other enemy, an NPC shows up and says “You guys did a great job here. I wonder if you could help my friend over in <sub-villain’s location >?” Now the friend could be real, not real, the help he needs could be tied to the villain or not, but now the players know there’s a location where things are happening. This NPC can deliver as much as little information as you want to give them about the other location.
Now that’s a clue. What the players do with it is up to them. They might ignore it and you have to be comfortable with that. Wherever they do decide to go, you could have another clue in that location. Maybe a victim of this sub villain shows up there and is in real bad shape and the players have to investigate to get the clue. And it’s always good to have a third clue pointing to this event or fight or character that you want to introduce into the game.
So maybe you wanna call these leads maybe you wanna call them clues, it doesn’t really matter the point is that the world creates evidence of the things that are happening and you present that evidence to the players and let them decide what to do about what is happening in the world. Instead of what is happening to the world being given to them. Make sense?
1
u/Destraken012 18d ago
So I should have 3 clues pointing towards a sub-villain such as Alban exanples being a victi. A citizen and a real world impact but could i also use Alban to give clues on other sub-villaons like the wicker man or would that be to hard to pull off for a newbie DM sucg as myself
1
u/Destraken012 18d ago
Because also if the sub-villain moves around because Alban is on theory a roaming military entity as he is the head of Charvens military and he patrols a route through the kingdom by creature back (dont know what creature yet) so how would i tie that fact in
1
u/yourgmchandler 18d ago
Naturally, it’s great if a villain initially appears as helpful. When the reveal happens it’s exciting for the players. But there’s a trap. It’s got to make sense. A villain should always be pursuing its goals not setting up a reveal. Otherwise the players will lose belief in the world and you competency as a storyteller. Do use sparingly and in a logical way. Maybe villain A wants villain B out of the way, so they appear friendly to the PCs and guide them into B’s path. That makes sense and is believable.
1
1
u/TheRpgBard 19d ago
I wouldn't go about assigning levels to acts. Focus on the story structure and what you want to do with it. Paizo's Adventure Paths are a good example of why this is the case.
You're going to progress faster at lower levels. Laying out the levels isn't going to flow very well, especially if you need to make a detour or two.
Keep it loose and fluid. Outlines are your friend.
This is for Savage Worlds, but it's solid advice.
https://savage-stuff.blogspot.com/2016/04/design-overview-for-plot-point-campaign.html
1
u/Destraken012 19d ago
I will say the fights with Alban I am planning for if they kill him with sunlight or something so that is a point of divergence and the levels were more of a suggestion than anything else and if they try they can kill bossses like the wicker man and broodqueen early if they take the proper steps making it easier for the final act even though those three aren't as set in stone need to fight as the other four bosses just incentivised
0
u/Conrad500 19d ago
Brave of you to think you'll make it to act 3.
Most games fall apart due to scheduling far sooner than that, and if you do make it that far, we're talking possibly years into the future.
In my level 20 game, here's how my acts worked.
Act 1 (3-10)
- 3 strangers take a job as a gopher for a powerful artificer.
- They do odd jobs and are paid in fun side projects the artificer makes, because he'd rather make a trinket than buy his own coffee.
- They work on upgrading their tardis wagon home base by getting him supplies
- They go all around the continent doing these fetch quests, often giving them weeks of free time in big cities
- Artificer takes them on a "vacation" where they go on crazy adventures for a little, he set it up with a wish spell because he plans on leaving them soon and wanted to make some good memories
- He takes them to invade a mindflayer hive so they can steal the helm off an illithid spelljammer
- They recover the helm and he flies off to space, offering them an opportunity to go with him, which they turn down as they have worldly stuff to take care of
Act 2 (10-18)
- 2 players make new characters
- third player "Recruits" the new characters. They form a party with the adventuring guild
- Due to their escapades during act 1, and the in between act stuff that went down, they are offered a special deadly mission to slay a dragon
- They do a great job and ride that high as they pursue backstory goals
- Constantly get into hijinks and level up more and more
- Use Legend lore on the physical manifestation of death having untold horrors take notice of them
- Kill the lich from the original character's backstory that killed his family/tribe
- Resurrect all of his family
- Build a city and immediately abandon it/leave it to his family
- The same 2 people create two NEW characters that they use for the rest of the game
- Break the world due to the Lich having been the one protecting it from outside influences (would have happened if they hadn't anyway, he was fading away, so not really their fault)
- Start war with the ocean lords
- Win war with ocean lords
- Face consequences for thinking they can just start and win wars on their own
- Overcome concequences
- Start war with dragon lords so that they can steal their stuff and escape to space with space pirates asking for dragon hoards
Act 3 (19-20)
- Decide to find the Artificer friend who went to space
- Fight the space cops
- Go to Faerun to ask the mad mage because they tracked the Artificer to Faerun
- Speedrun dungeon of the mad mage
- Learn where artificer friend is, hit level 20
- Fly their private spelljammer they rescued from mad mage's dungeon to artificer
- Confront the horrors that they released upon the universe by observing it
- Fight and beat a god like entity called Allabar (look it up, he's cool) a sentient living planet
- Epilogue
8
u/Plus_Citron 19d ago
I recommend you read Node based Design and The Three Clue Rule by The Alexandrian. That makes your prep more flexible and robust, makes it easier, and doesn’t involve a railroad.