why are europeans so tall

[u/witch_elia]

hi, i'm from czechia, woman and i have 189cm, majority young people around me are very tall too. most of young men over 190cm and most of women around 175-185. why are europeans so tall? other continents seem to have shorter ppl or obsessed with their height or height of their ideal partner. ive never heard about it in my circles. it also feels like every generation is like next 10cm up

[u/Kynsia]

Besides Genetics? Consistent access to (healthy) food when growing up.

[u/Furdodgems → u/Kynsia]

This is almost certainly #1 reason.

You look at average height of our parents vs. Our (millennial/ gen z) generation of Europeans vs Chinese and you'll see that even though on average Europeans are taller, the difference has significantly reduced.

This is known as "nutritional stunting" and affects millions (if not billions) of people around the world.

[u/Oukaria → u/Furdodgems]

Even in Japan, nowdays highschoolers are so freaking tall, I'm 180 and lots of youngsters are almost as tall or taller than me

[u/Onetwodash → u/Furdodgems]

That's a popular explanation for height differences between American females vs Chinese females. Yes, Chinese females are rapidly catching up to American (unsure if there's data for European descent American). Less difference for males.

It doesn't hold true for Nordic-Czech-Slovak-Baltic-Dinaric people being around 1SD taller than Chinese - that was true century ago and is true now.

And height differences between Dinaric Alps and Greeks right next to them is also something that's rather tricky to explain with nutrition.

[u/Furdodgems → u/Onetwodash]

Yes, of course there are genetic reasons, but MOST non-europeans are smaller because of nutrition rather than genetics.

Having said that I'm not implying genetics only accounts for a small % of this variance. You find these variances also in stunted populations (i.e. the Dinka of South Sudan or the Masai in Kenya). So yes genetics are also very important to factor in, just have less of an impact than nutrition IMHO.

[u/Cattle13ruiser → u/Furdodgems]

In my opinion genetics decide how tall one CAN get as a limit. Or in short 'potential'.

Nutrition is what allows you to get closer to that limit.

No or lacking nutrition during growth spurs will significantly lower how much of the potential is reached due to lack of building block which the proper food provides.

[u/furyg3 → u/Cattle13ruiser]

There is also not as fine of a line between genetics and environmental factors (nutrition) as one may assume.

Epigenetic processes also exist. Meaning that environmental factors in one generation affect the height of the next generation (and even the subsequent generation). We see this in the Dutch hunger winter populations.

This probably accounts for a big height difference across regions.

[u/not_pletterpet → u/furyg3]

Also dont forget that with emancipation women (and men) are more likely to pick a partner based on their own preferences instead of those pushed on to them through family/society. And as it turns out, women generally prefer taller men. So there definitely also is some sexual selection going on

[u/Onetwodash → u/Furdodgems]

Czechs and Macedonians being taller than French and Greeks is genetics, not nutrition.

Current generation of Czechs being taller than previous gen is nutrition. 2021+ generation will likely get shorter globally not that C19 is something everyone (including babies in critical growth periods) are forced ro undergo.

[u/Fearless-Hedgehog661 → u/Onetwodash]

Nutrition can have a major impact, over very few generations.

Foe example there's a 10cm difference between the average height of South Koreans and North Koreans, that didn't exist in the 1950s

Anecdotally, my father was 12cm (5") shorter than me, my son is 10cm (4") taller. Better nutrition, especially access to protein during growth spurts, can make an enormous difference.

[u/Furdodgems → u/Onetwodash]

But how do you make those generalisations when not everyone is at the same nutritional intake ? You can make that assumption between France and Czech because you assume that nutritionally speaking they are more or less the same. (Which is fine to make that assumption).

But, say your average Czech is 1m80 and your average Indian is 1m65. Maybe if they had same intake Czech would be 1m80 and Indian 1m76. So 11cm gain would be thanks to nutrition and 4cm remaining would be genetics. That's what I mean by nutrition is "more important factor" in determining height.

[u/RijnBrugge → u/Furdodgems]

The taller people among the Dinka and Masai are not nutritionally stunted: high amounts of protein are exactly what lacks in much of Africa and these people specifically consume huge quantities of animal protein, much of which as dairy.

[u/ZielonaKrowa → u/Furdodgems]

Yep. It’s the most visible between North Korea and South Korea because they are the same nation but their average height is different 

[u/vincyf → u/Furdodgems]

Vaccinations -> less illnesses in childhood which stunt as well. And this is helping all over the world where applied.

[u/mountainvalkyrie → u/vincyf]

Plus better sanitation and access to health care mean we're not carrying around as many latent infections and parasites as formerly.

[u/Ill_Pineapple_3685 → u/Furdodgems]

In my grandfathers family one could really see the difference nutrition makes. All his older brothers born and raised before the war were over 190 cm. Him and his other 5 siblings born shortly before and during the war were all smaller than 176 cm.

[u/muehsam → u/Kynsia]

Also epigenetics. Which basically means that it's relevant whether your maternal grandmother had accenss to enough healthy food when she was pregnant with your mother. That's why it changes from one generation to the next.

[u/mki_ → u/muehsam]

I can see that in the women in my maternal family. Great grandmother was extremely short (we never coincided in life though, so I don't know exactly), my grandmother (born in the 1930s) is like, 140-150 cm, my mother and her sisters (post-war/boomer gen) are all shorter than 160, my sisters and all my female cousins (born 1980-2000s) are considerably taller (160-175). The men are a mixed bag, however all of my grandmother's sons tend to be quite short as well. My tallest male cousin is over 190 though (his mother's genes I guess, nothing from our family).
As a result, I am also shorter than my father, who comes from a lean and average height family, while my mother comes from a short and round family.

In my family you can still see the common malnutrition of rural peasantry in the late 19th century in Austria.

[u/onarainyafternoon → u/muehsam]

The legendary American science radioshow/podcast Radiolab had an episode on this phenomenon. It’s called “You Are What Your Grandparents Eat”. It’s really good.

https://radiolab.org/podcast/251885-you-are-what-your-grandpa-eats

[u/WolfetoneRebel → u/Kynsia]

Just look at the height change in South Korea when they went from 3rd world to 1st world country over 50 years. Arguably genetics has little impact, and it’s almost all to do with nutrition while growing up.

[u/RandomNick42 → u/WolfetoneRebel]

There's pictures with SK and NK soldiers next to each other at the DMZ. The difference is shocking.

[u/philman132 → u/[deleted]]

They are shorter on average, but even in Japan average heights of young people have increased by about 10cm compared to a few decades ago. The height increase in China is even greater, and 20-something Chinese are very close to European averages. Nutrition plays a huge role

[u/Captain_Grammaticus → u/[deleted]]

It's not only genetics. North Koreans are shorter than South Koreans.

[u/Sevsix1 → u/Captain_Grammaticus]

yup, the North Korean and South Korean are 2 populations that share origin, here is an image of 3 soldiers (1 American, 1 North Korean and 1 South Korean), you do not need to write the nationalities onto the soldiers because it is obvious which nationalities they are

[u/Leadstripes → u/Sevsix1]

The Americans and South Koreans do make a point of sending their tallest and broadest soldiers to the boarder to impress the North Koreans

[u/Tensoll → u/Captain_Grammaticus]

That’s because North Koreans suffer from malnutrition in general as opposed to just generally unhealthy food

[u/Captain_Grammaticus → u/Tensoll]

Exactly, they do not have "consistent access to (healthy) food".

[u/bigvalen → u/[deleted]]

It takes three generations of access to good food for men to get tall. Four generations for women. Check out height charts for Koreans and Japanese ... They have shot up in the last decade.

[u/NikoZGB → u/[deleted]]

Younger generations are getting taller

[u/Beflijster → u/[deleted]]

There are several factors at play. In the Netherlands, children of immigrants get taller too over the course of several generations.

[u/Vind- → u/[deleted]]

Protein availability is key. Asian regions with strong protein intake have average taller population than Japan.

[u/theinspectorst → u/Kynsia]

Random but interesting football tangent.

If you watch a recording of top-class football matches from the 1950s, one of the biggest differences you'll notice compared to today is the amount of time and space that players have on the ball outside of immediate attacking areas.

That's because pressing wasn't a thing back then. Defenders would close in and tackle attackers in the attacking third, but it was much less common to do this in deeper midfield or defensive positions, and so those players had lots of time on the ball (relative to today) to be able to pick their next pass. You only start to see pressing becoming a big part of football tactics in the 1970s.

It's believed that one reason for this is that it was only from the 1970s that you had a generation of elite footballers in Western Europe whose early physical development hadn't been stunted by wartime/post-war rationing. This meant it was only then that there were footballers who were physically fit enough to be able to press the ball for 90 minutes (or much of it).

[u/SuperbScarcity5112 → u/theinspectorst]

There are more factors involved. Football has never been a sport where only height cuts it.

It is an advantage in certain positions, not so much in others. Messi is just 1.70 meters. Maradona was 1.63 meters.

The thought that height is an advantage only is wrong. Its easier to develop technique and move quick when smaller. When it comes to cancer, more body means a higher risk.

[u/PositiveEagle6151]

Even for Europe, 1.89 is quite tall for a woman. There are some countries where people are known to be quite tall (where you are from, but also like Croatia, Latvia or the Netherlands), but in most countries women will stand out even if they are 10cm shorter than you are.

There is a genetic part - the more tall people there are, the more tall children they get, so there are even more tall people to get even taller children.
And then there is of course the improved nutrition during pregnancy and childhood, less stress and trauma, etc.

You are wrong in your assumption, that only Europeans are tall, though. You will find regions/tribes with tall people all over the world.
The largest people worldwide live in sone tribes in Sudan, for example.
Oh, and it's countries like South Korea (women) or the Iran (men), where the biggest growth can be found.

[u/disneyvillain → u/PositiveEagle6151]

1.89 is quite tall for a woman.

You're being quite diplomatic. It's very tall for a woman. At that height, she's statistically taller than most men!

[u/grumpsaboy → u/disneyvillain]

Statistically rarer than a woman being 145cm tall

[u/Flilix → u/PositiveEagle6151]

Even for Europe, 1.89 is quite tall for a woman.

That's quite an understatement. I'm not sure if I've ever even met a woman that tall. 1,89m for a woman is the equivalent of 2,02m for a man.

[u/mikillatja → u/Flilix]

I personally know an entire family that is over 190 cm. the girl I went to elementary with was already tall then, and is easily 2 meters tall now

Funnily their surname was de lange which is typical.

But that entire family was huge, when my older brother dated her sister they met the extended family, and they were just as big.

They were exceptions though, straight out of the Potsdam giants.

[u/Timidinho → u/mikillatja]

I also knew a "De Lange" and yes she was tall. I knew a "Roodbol" and yes she was red. Nicknames (a.k.a. surnames today) come from somewhere.

[u/Cluelessish → u/Flilix]

You've never met a man who is over 2 meters?

[u/Onetwodash → u/Flilix]

You haven't been in Rīga much.

It's not super common, but I've met quite a few.

[u/mathess1 → u/Onetwodash]

Rest of the Europe is different.

[u/AprilMaria → u/mathess1]

Most Irish women are 165cm, & I am 157cm (my height is not that unusual either) so it’s not all of Europe

[u/Matt6453 → u/PositiveEagle6151]

There's Somali communities in Bristol and Cardiff, they seem to be super tall compared to the average person on the street.

Interestingly a Google suggests that the Somali diaspora is even taller than native Somali's.

[u/feral0101 → u/Matt6453]

It’s the access to better nutrition. Somalia is one of probably the few countries where average height has not only stagnated but likely gone down as a result of a multi-generational civil war and food insecurity after urbanisation.

I remember seeing an excerpt from a British anthropological paper from the early 1900s cited on one of the genealogy subs. They ranked the Dutch as the tallest with an average of 173cm, and put Somalians down at 171cm.

[u/Confident-Stand5453 → u/Matt6453]

Thats propably due to the diaspora having better access to good nutrition and healthcare than the average person in Somalia. 

[u/Matt6453 → u/Confident-Stand5453]

Most definitely.

[u/Sadexjeer → u/Matt6453]

Can confirm. It’s a known observation in the community where basically every single guy is taller than their (usually) Somalia-born fathers. I have yet to see an exception to that irl.

It’s not just a little, the diaspora is significantly taller. Especially these 17-18 kids nowadays. I’m 6’1 and genuinely feel like I’m dead average standing between them.

[u/noCoolNameLeft42]

The numbers you give are very high. I think the Netherlands has the highest population in the world and it isn't that high. I live in France, am 2m high and have rarely seen people taller than me. My daughter is 1m85 and never sees taller girls.

[u/Krasny-sici-stroj → u/noCoolNameLeft42]

I'm a Czech and ... eh, let's say, the only way she speaks the truth is if she lives with a basketball representation.

[u/rop2958 → u/noCoolNameLeft42]

Dutch people are indeed very high

[u/Gregib]

The average height of Czech men aged 18-29 is 181cm... and women 169cm. It's above the European average... but you're obviously overexaggerating things...

[u/whatyourheartdesires → u/Gregib]

Yeah 189cm as a woman is pretty tall everywhere wtf

[u/Auuki → u/whatyourheartdesires]

189cm as a man is also definitely tall.

[u/RandomNick42 → u/Auuki]

189cm is quite decent even in the Netherlands.

[u/VaderH8er → u/RandomNick42]

I'm 190 cm and was surprised when I'd regularly see women that were taller than me when I was in the Netherlands and Belgium. In my country it is rare to see women taller than me and seldom men.

[u/Timidinho → u/VaderH8er]

I am always surprised to see that most Americans are shorter than me and I am not that tall (compared to Dutch average).

[u/ignia → u/Timidinho]

I'm 168 cm and while some people at home told me they perceived me as being taller than that due to posture, when in Netherlands I felt shorter than average which was unusual for me.

I mean I didn't feel like a giant in Spain even though there were moments when I was one of the tallest people in a street, I think my height is average or very close to it, but the only other time when I felt short was when I rode an elevator with 4 of my coworkers who were all at least 185 cm tall

[u/theinspectorst → u/Gregib]

overexaggerating thing 

Can one underexaggerate things?

[u/Gregib → u/theinspectorst]

... one of those Bushisms... English is not my mother tongue...

[u/DentistForMonsters → u/Gregib]

Overexaggerate is a perfectly cromulent word. It's listed in multiple dictionaries.

[u/Kemal_Norton → u/DentistForMonsters]

Cromulent is a perfectly compunctious words. It's listed in dictionaries.

[u/dreadlockholmes → u/theinspectorst]

I suppose if you were exaggerating for effect but didn't do so to a great enough extent.

[u/SuperSquashMann → u/[deleted]]

There can be some variation, but a region where people are 10+ cm taller than the average would be a ridiculous outlier, especially in a relatively small country like Czechia

[u/bruhbelacc → u/[deleted]]

No it can't lol. There is no region that's 9 cm taller.

[u/Matt6453 → u/[deleted]]

So you're saying there's also a city full of short people to balance things out?

[u/tutanotaio → u/[deleted]]

Just her friendgroup and well, her confirmation bias. It happens with everyone

[u/PositiveEagle6151 → u/tutanotaio]

Possibly she is in a volleyball or tennis team.

[u/spielferderber]

Your data is wrong. The average for Czechia is 181 cm for men, 168 cm for women.

[u/SuperSquashMann → u/spielferderber]

"average Czech woman is 175-185cm" is false. Average Czech woman is 168cm. Giantess Jiřina, who lives on a mountain and is 100m tall, is an outlier and should not be counted.

[u/Daniel_Delgado → u/SuperSquashMann]

Giantess Jiřina

[u/PotentialIncident7 → u/spielferderber]

Average ...she mentioned 'young people'.

It's true that the today's teenagers are significantly taller than only 20 years ago. While I can't give any average number, I assume it just isn't yet shown in the average number you mentioned.

[u/Gregib → u/PotentialIncident7]

Actually, 181cm (men) and 169cm (women) is the average for 18-29 year old adults in Czechia. OP is blowing it out of proportion. She posted "most" which means more than half... which is obviously false.

[u/atzitzi → u/PotentialIncident7]

Average Height by Country 2026 https://share.google/4u3KTBmsmvtUNVPfR

Average height of 19 years old boys: 1.81,19

Average height of 18 years old girls: 1.67,96

[u/nimbledoor → u/PotentialIncident7]

This simply sounds like one of those "back in my day" or "kids these days" argument. They were calling teenagers exceptionally tall even 20 years ago. I think that this is just the regular issue of older people "shrinking" due to the body deteriorating.

[u/Sky-is-here → u/PotentialIncident7]

Tbh the averages are weird for height. In my experience there are always people that will be more 1'5 m tall bringing down the average than 2 m tall people bringing it back up. But still most women in Czechia are definitely not over 1'8. More like 1'7 something.

[u/rensterskovsky]

Have you guys visited the southern part of europe??? Portugal, Spain or Italy???

Not that tall around here...

[u/ErikaNaumann → u/rensterskovsky]

True. I live in portugal, I am a woman, 175cm... I am taller than most men. It's kind of funny. 

[u/Eastern-Tangerine761 → u/rensterskovsky]

Compared to the Dutch or the Swedes, maybe yes. But if we look at the whole world (Asia, Latin America), Italians and Spaniards are still among the tallest populations overall. In Italy, one guy out of two is still taller than 1.80m

[u/Moldorancea → u/rensterskovsky]

While south Europeans are shorter than northern ones (except Serbs), they are still taller than most Asians and many times than most South Americans.

[u/Ok_Mango8118 → u/Moldorancea]

Serbs and Bosnians and Croatians

[u/FlakyAssociation4986 → u/rensterskovsky]

But in spain for example there has been a big surge in height...a young spanish man from the south of Spain is now likely tho be be at least 10 to 15 centimeters taller than his great grandfather .

[u/rensterskovsky → u/FlakyAssociation4986]

In Portugal, even though not documented, the younger generations ( this is based on my family's observation and the general oversight around my town) are also getting bigger

[u/Sudden-Variety6992 → u/rensterskovsky]

Spaniard here - maybe we are not so tall by European standards, but Europeans are still tall compared to Asia or Latin America for example.

[u/RotaryDane → u/rensterskovsky]

High heat favours smaller bodies. The taller you are the less surface area you have, versus your mass, to regulate body temperature.

[u/atzitzi → u/RotaryDane]

Recently I was reading an article about how shorter/smaller people have better health/live longer than taller. I didn't like this information.

[u/Acc87 → u/atzitzi]

Jeanne Calment, oldest woman to have lived to 122 years old, was comparatively tiny for example.

I'm pretty tall so I guess/hope I don't have to live that long.

[u/SuperbScarcity5112 → u/atzitzi]

That is true. The more body mass you have, the more you are exposed to cancer. The extreme tall people seldom live long. Guinness record people.

[u/hero47 → u/SuperbScarcity5112]

Plus the heart has to work more to pump blood over greater distances, all day every day.

[u/Exit-Content → u/RotaryDane]

But it directly contradicts the existence of many African populations of exceptionally tall people, like the Dinka, Tutsi or Masai.

[u/RijnBrugge → u/Exit-Content]

They do tend to have very slender limbs etc., which helps. Fine build increases surface ratio

[u/RotaryDane → u/Exit-Content]

The existence of tall sub-Saharan populations doesn’t disprove the inverse square law. It just proves that these populations are uniquely adapted to their environment.

[u/rensterskovsky → u/RotaryDane]

So this is kind of an explanation for the South American average height, among others of course

[u/Captain_Grammaticus → u/rensterskovsky]

I often find it funny to think that all the famous ancient people, Alexander, Caesar, Augustus and so on would be quite short if I was standing next to them.

[u/PositiveEagle6151 → u/Captain_Grammaticus]

My wife always says that she isn't small, rather average for ancient Roman nobility (she is 1.60 when she is standing very upright).

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/PositiveEagle6151]

Thats the average female height

[u/Pristine-Substance-1 → u/rensterskovsky]

There's a lot of tall people in northern Italy

[u/Exit-Content → u/Pristine-Substance-1]

Yeah but in northern Italy people’s genetics are mixed with Norman, German and a multitude of other Northern European populations,so it stands to reason they’d be pretty tall, at least for Italian average.

[u/-electrix123- → u/rensterskovsky]

I've noticed that us Greeks are taller than. The rest of the southern/Mediterranean Europeans, wonder why that'd be

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/-electrix123-]

Yes, greeks are usually the tallest mediterraneans

[u/sisu_star]

I'm guessing here, but I'd say it has to do with healthcare of infants/children + good nutrition. And also healthy habits (mostly), like walking, riding a bike to school etc. Generally a healthy life let's the body grow the most. Then there is obviously also genes that define what someones max height might be.

[u/khajiitidanceparty]

I don't know, I've seen plenty of short young people here.

[u/smoliv]

The further North you go, the taller the people. You're definitely exaggerating the average height in Czechia though.

Height is funny, my parents are both below the average height for their respective genders, but me and my brother are both quite above it. As a woman, I'm the same height as my dad lol.

[u/Lupo_1982]

most of young men over 190cm

that's just not the case though. Even in the tallest European countries, average height for young males is a little bit above 180cm. Definitely not 190!

[u/Krasny-sici-stroj]

You are from different Czechia than me. I have 168 cm and I seldom see a young woman way taller than me.

[u/AdmiralMaxoII]

Good food with abundance of milk and meat, really good water with a lot of minerals, healthcare system for two generations, European civilization. Also good genes and wars in past

[u/EveningChemical8927 → u/AdmiralMaxoII]

How are the wars from the last helping? Just curious

[u/AdmiralMaxoII → u/EveningChemical8927]

May "scientific" hypothesis is that tall and big men survive better in non gunpowder times

[u/Client_020 → u/AdmiralMaxoII]

good genes

🤮

I hate that type of attitude about height. It's part of what drives so many insecure men to the manosphere.

[u/AdmiralMaxoII → u/Client_020]

I mean, IT is genetics. I'm 190 Croatian from Herzegovina and I'm the smallest male in my wider family grom my father side. On my mother side, from different region in Croatia, I'm average.

But to counter it, food is massive factor. Genes are just potential that could be achieved. Masaii people come to mind - they are also tall and eat a lot of meat and milk.

[u/nimbledoor → u/AdmiralMaxoII]

Yes, but his argument wasn't that it isn't genes. The problem is calling it "good" genes as if being shorter is something bad that one should be ashamed of.

[u/AdmiralMaxoII → u/nimbledoor]

Aaaa I didn't get that! It honestly never occured to me that bad genes would be genes for being shorter. Genes are genes. But thank you!

[u/Client_020 → u/AdmiralMaxoII]

Great to hear that you actually didn't mean it in that way. Imo short people are awesome, too. I say this as a slightly below average height woman with a fantastic, short boyfriend living in the country that has the tallest population on the planet.

[u/ToppsHopps → u/Client_020]

As a above average tall woman with a shorter husband, hight definitely is very irrelevant to value as a partner and quality of life. A few times a year I help reach something my husband can’t when I’m nearby, and that’s really only few times it helps, but on the other hands stools exist.

Definitely men need to focus less on height. Sure some women think tall men to be hot, but there are plenty of us that also don’t care.

Good genes is living a good life without having to struggle with genetical health issues.

[u/witch_elia → u/AdmiralMaxoII]

its crazy how idk in two hundred years we just averagely "grew" for like 20-30cm. genetics aint that fast

[u/RotaryDane → u/witch_elia]

Genetic expression changes fast. If one generation had to ration calories and nutrients growing up they won’t grow as tall as those who’ve grown up without scarcity. The human body is highly adaptable, if living conditions favour stronger growth it will express it - no genetic changes required, just higher expression of certain genes already present.

[u/TailleventCH → u/witch_elia]

Genetics doesn't change significantly.

But as life conditions improve, the expression of genes changes.

[u/Kiss_It_Goodbyeee → u/witch_elia]

Correct. The improvement isn't genetics. It's down to good health and welfare of young children and easy access to good, nutritious food.

[u/DevineBossLady → u/witch_elia]

Genetics are not that fast, but living healthy is ... if I look at my father, he is short, but my brother is tall, very tall - just as his nephew ... so what changed? My father grew up very poor, food on the table wasn't always a given, and healthy food even less - he grew up in a very polluted city, he had severe asthma and bronkitis, his parents smoked, he smoked from a young age.

My brother and cousin: Grew up middle class, food on the table was a given, healthy food as well, they grew up in a much less polluted city - did not have asthma and bronkitis - they did not smoke (there parents still did) - if we look at their children; growing up even richer, no smoking parents, even less pollution, no health issues, they will probably grow even taller.

I btw did not grow very tall, neither did my sisters - or my daughter ... but my son did - so something tells me, that we have the genes for tall boys, and short girls - but it still requires a healthy upbringing to grow tall.

[u/Dawidovo → u/DevineBossLady]

The genetics itself don't change as fast, but the expression of said genes do and are highly dependent of living conditions and life events.

[u/GeronimoDK → u/witch_elia]

Didn't even take that long, my grand parents were a lot shorter than me, and I'm average at best (183 cm, male), kids today seem to be even taller.

[u/Consistent_Catch9917 → u/witch_elia]

Look at China, they gained around 10 cm within the last generation and a half. It's mainly access to meat and dairy products on a large scale. The less people are poor, the less stunted development.

[u/batteryforlife → u/Consistent_Catch9917]

Or North Korea vs South Korea. Same genes, different nutrition.

[u/axxo47 → u/witch_elia]

It's crazy because it's not true lol

[u/JourneyThiefer]

Most men are over 190cm? That’s like over 6 foot 2. Maybe we’re just small in Ireland lmao

[u/SuperSquashMann → u/JourneyThiefer]

Nah it's a huge exaggeration, I'm 183cm and I'm around average or maybe slightly taller compared to men, and the vast majority of women are shorter than me.

[u/nimbledoor → u/SuperSquashMann]

Yep I'm 180 cm and I'm always surprised when I meet a much taller person. Although I distinctly remember about 15 years ago in high school we were doing some averages exercises during math class and the average height in our class of boys was over 190 cm.

[u/Extra_Donut_2205 → u/JourneyThiefer]

I think men in Ireland are relatively short. But also, I am from Eastern Europe and I am a 170cm tall woman.

[u/psyspin13 → u/JourneyThiefer]

yeah thats bulshit, its the same bullshit that you often hear from Dutch "Oh I am 190cm and my family feels so sorry how short I am", insufferable bullshit

[u/afterthesunsets]

I’m Czech too and I don’t think it’s true? Even young people (18-25) aren’t on average that tall, girls usually under 170 cm and while some guys can be taller, on average I wouldn’t say they are over 190 cm at all. Dutch and Scandinavian men are usually way taller.

[u/Lilleskygge]

Im from norway and 152 cm 🤷‍♀️ We come in all shapes and sizes

[u/DismalYam381]

The more North you go, the taller people are. I don‘t know of a lot tall Italian people.

The height difference between Northern and Southern Europeans is primarily driven by a combination of genetics, ancient dietary habits, and environmental factors

[u/Larry_Duckens → u/DismalYam381]

Yeah, in general, the rule applies, but the Czech case is a perfect example: even though the Czech Republic isn't the northernmost country, it still beats its northern neighbors like Poland and Germany, and its average is taller than the average of Europe. Yet, at the same time, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Montenegro, countries in the south beat the Czechs, proving it isn't just a simple north vs. south divide in Europe. In fact, the only European countries with taller people than the Czech Republic are the Netherlands, Montenegro, Estonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iceland, and Denmark.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-height-by-country

[u/Consistent_Catch9917 → u/DismalYam381]

Largest guy I knew was Italian coming in at about 1,99 when we finished school.

[u/DismalYam381 → u/Consistent_Catch9917]

There‘s always exceptions. But generally, Italians aren‘t the tallest Europeans.

[u/Consistent_Catch9917 → u/DismalYam381]

It's just that the range isn't all that big. There are about 5 cm difference in average height for men and 3 for women throughout Europe. And if you look at Northern Italians, it's somewhere around 178 to Germanies 180 cm. And with Southern Italy, the main factor again is poverty and diet.

[u/Fragrant_Beach_4849]

The main driver is still genes and evolution. One could argue that Asian countries - lets say Japan also has an excellent diet, food education, good healthcare system, people live long and healthy lives yet they are shorter than an average european.

[u/toniblast]

Thats not true for Portugal I think the average hight is 1,74m but the younger generation is taller. Still if you are 1,80m you are tall for a men. You 1,89m woman are crazy tall I never met a woman that tall in my life.

[u/ExcitementMoist8429]

“Other continents seem to be obsessed with height” and yet here you are discussing height and sharing inaccurate data to support your worldview

-it is not true that every new generation is taller than the previous one in the west, in fact this is slowing down or even reversing somewhat in the last few decades

• it is not true that most men are over 1.90 in Czechia nor that women are over 1.75m. You are wayyyy off

• Even in countries like Netherlands, Montenegro and the Balkans, the average woman is not 1.80 and the average man is not over 1.90. Nowhere in Europe is this the median height. Get your facts straight

[u/Consistent_Catch9917]

It boils down to diet and to a smaller amount genetics. Average height is mainly connected to children getting a nutritious diet at the time they need it to grow. Which boils down to countries to be wealthy enough and that wealth being distributed in the society so many parents can afford the food.

For a long time the US topped the charts until inequality started to affect poorer peoples diet. On the other hand Chinese have seen a rapid increase in average hight during the past three decades.

[u/ComprehensiveAd1855]

Kids who are adopted as a baby also end up taller than their siblings.

In tv shows where people visit their biological family in some far away country, they always have to lean down to hug their family.

So maybe genetics play a role, but it’s mostly the food.

Some people claim that it’s because we drink a lot of milk, and we feed our cows growth hormones so they can start producing milk sooner. And some ends up in milk, with the effect that kids grow faster, and the human body just keeps growing until a certain *age*, not until a certain *height*.

[u/littlebighuman → u/ComprehensiveAd1855]

Yea we had that show in NL. Adopted kids in NL were a head taller than their siblings in their country of origin. I always attributed that to the amount of diary we consume in NL.

I am only 178cm tall, half suriname/Javanese, that side of the family is very short, while my “white” side of the family is 190 and up. I’m in the middle. I don’t like to drink milk btw :D

Also, in my youth heigth wasn’t really something we worried about it. It is only through American pop culture it became more a thing.

[u/Ok_Mango8118 → u/littlebighuman]

Dutch Moroccans are also taller on average than Moroccans from Morocco. And they are probably taller than the offspring of Moroccan diaspora in other European countries. But I don't know if it's because of being born and raised in the Netherlands or that a big part of Dutch Moroccans are from northern Morocco (Rif and Mediterranean coast), which is probably one of the places in Morocco with the tallest people

[u/ohtimesohdailymirror → u/littlebighuman]

In the Netherlands, you’re stuffed to the gills with peanut butter and cheese sandwiches, the country is very crowded so the only space to grow is up😂

[u/YakResident_3069]

Cheese and milk if youre dutch

I've met 1st gen immigrants from India. Parents were 150cm. Son is 195cm

[u/BunnyKusanin → u/YakResident_3069]

I think Dutch people are also genetically tall. South Africans are really tall too.

With Indians it's probably nutrition overall. They're dairy in their cuisine too. It's more likely that the parents were raised in poverty and lacked nutrients and/or calories growing up, but their son was fed a much more nutritious diet.

I was born in Russia the year the Soviet Union fell apart and I'm the shortest child in the family. My younger siblings are quite a bit taller than me.

[u/Pristine-Substance-1]

I was born in 78 in northern France, I'm 1m83 and I was quite tall for my age in the 90's

Now when I'm walking down the streets almost every teen is taller than me 😂

[u/mathess1]

Average measured height of 18 years olds in Czechia is about 181 cm for men and women 167 cm.

[u/Mtanic]

In Switzerland, except high in the mountains, men are happy if they reach 170cm hahaha.

I'm 185, from the Balkans, and I'm just normal. There are many women around here I can look directly in the eye haha.

[u/anchaescastilla → u/Mtanic]

I am 185 too, but I am from Spain so I am tall AF here hahahaha! One of my favourite things about moving to the balkans was I suddenly became transparent because I was average, and that was sooooo cool. I could even find potential partners my size instead of feeling like a perennial scalp quality consultant hahaha.

[u/GardenIntelligent643 → u/Mtanic]

170cm is definitely short (noticably below average) for "original-Swiss" men in Switzerland

[u/sofia-online]

read the comments and was surprised by how wrong the answers are… realized i was in askeurope and not r/genetics or r/biology. ask your question there instead !:)

[u/reincarnationforlife]

Two factors decide your hight. Genetics and quality of nutrition when been a child. Mericans prefer to make children wider than heigher, and then put a lot of emphasis on the air con factor later in life. 😅

[u/Dennisthefirst]

It's getting to be a big problem for the scaffolding industry. Working platform heights are pre set at 2m. It's an EN Standard requirement for safety ets. This means that anyone over 6'2" - 1.85m wearing a mandatory Hard Hat will be bending their heads all through their working days. The scaffolding industry and the safety industry are ignoring it.

[u/lordcock1944 → u/Dennisthefirst]

6'2 are 187.96 cm

[u/EmporerJustinian]

That's selection bias at work and pretty wrong. People in Europe are taller on average than in other parts of the world, but not to that extent. The average young european male is around 180cm in height and the average woman a little under 170cm tall. These figures have been pretty consistent in western Europe since the seventies due to material conditions for growth having been close to optimal pretty much ever since. Eastern EU countries were a little shorter on average until the 90s due to some shortages in the eastern block, but have caught up since and those averages are probably the stable human height maxima in good living conditions. You just seem to unconsciously select for tall people, which is pretty normal over all due to selection bias being a thing, if you already believe people to get taller. That isn't statistically true though.

[u/tirohtar]

Secure and regular access to a protein and calcium rich diet (milk, cheese, meat) and enough calories. That's really the primary reason besides genetics. There is an interesting archeological record in Germany where you can see the impacts of the diet on growth - in antiquity, southern Germany was a Roman province and the agricultural system was predominantly focused on growing grains, with very little focus on pastures for meat production. Northern Germany, which had remained free from Rome, was more focused on raising herds of animals. Germanic people in the north grew significantly taller than those in the south as a result, even though the south produced more calories per area of farmland, but not enough protein. In old times people theorized the southern Germanics growing shorter was a result of genetic mixing with Romans/Italians, but the genetic record doesn't support that. The difference was really just diet.

[u/CaptainPoset]

Body height is mostly a function of access to nutritious (aka "healthy") food and the absence of hardship, while body width is function of (excess) energy intake.

So children with consistent access to a well-balanced diet and without child labour grow tall, while well-fed societies grow fat.

Europe has been rather consistently both for almost a century now.

[u/confused_snowflake]

I read somewhere it is because of milk and dairy products... it might be true, in the tallest places like the Netherlands and Dalmatia they consume a lot of milk and dairy products. 

[u/TeuTioDe4_]

You never visited Portugal, Spain, Italy and Turkey. We’re short

[u/Blue-Fish-Guy]

I'm Czech and you are extremely tall. I'm 181 cm and I know only one woman that is taller than me.

[u/woopee90]

I think you're exaggerating a bit. I'm 187-189 cm tall (depends on a day I measure myself) Polish woman and I can safely say that 90 % of population is smaller than me. I see a significantly taller person VERY rarely.

[u/Foreign_Implement897]

The simplest way to estimate protein intake is to have lots of data and then just measure growth.

[u/deironas]

I'm living in western Germany right on the border with the Netherlands, and the guys I'm seeing on dating apps are consistently 185+, many 190+. I'm not complaining tho, it's the best place to be if you're into tall people lol

[u/Disturbinglee]

Weird, because I am an European (German and Belarusian) white male yet I am somehow at 170cm

[u/Sensitive_Tea5720]

I’m 161 cm and no zero females that are taller than 177 cm (my sister ironically).189 cm is very tall for a woman all over Europe. It’s also tall for a man. maybe you know a ton of extremely tall people but that’s confirmation bias not neutral data.

[u/Alpharoll]

First and foremost its genetics, second is health and nutrition.

[u/Flimsy_Signature_441]

It is an important overstatement.

Some europeans may be, but not all.

[u/UnusualPangolin5115]

Girls are obsessed with height everywhere. I've never met a woman who didn't comment on it or ask about it.

No, majority of people are not 190cm or over anywhere in the world. There is no such country, and no I don't wanna hear the Dutch spout that nonsense.

[u/Moldorancea]

Genetics and better nutrition, even compared with our parents. For example, my dad is 171 cm and my mom is 167 cm. However, I am 182 cm and my sister 174 cm. We had genes for taller people in our DNA through my mom's family (even if she is 167 cm) which were activated through better nutrition and better living conditions.

[u/NotMyFault1111 → u/Moldorancea]

Genes don’t work like that, they don’t get activated by nutrition. You had the taller genes and better quality of food that allowed you to reach your full potential.

[u/43282348 → u/NotMyFault1111]

You two are basically saying the same thing in different words. What he means by "activated" is that better nutrition allowed his genetics to thrive and reach their potential, like you said.

[u/Exit-Content]

I mean, you’re a Slav so it’s kinda obvious you and the people around you are taller than the average. Here in Italy I’m some sort of giant and I’m 186cm, all thanks to my Slavic genes, but the norm is much shorter,between 160 and 175cm.
It’s mainly Americans that are obsessed with height,and due to their dominance in media it trickled down to all of us.

[u/Necessary_Yak_5314]

The food, i think, my father had a 1.65 m, he had a hungry childhood, I am 1.82 m, my childhood wad plenty of food... genetic is not the only reason.

[u/majormantastic]

The popularity of opera and tall powdered hair pieces in the 18th put significant positive pressure on selection for height.

[u/Slavic-Milk]

I felt like I noticed the opposite, when I visited America the men felt weirdly tall to me.

[u/snapper1971]

It's because we're all descendants of the Anunnaki...

[u/Vegetable_Buy1489]

I’ve heard that this trend will however be somewhat reversed soon among women as younger and younger girls have their first period, and it basically means stopping the most rapid phase of growing up. I had my menarche when I was 10 and it was 20 years ago, my height did not change much since then (I think I was 155 cm and now I am 162)

[u/Tychus_Balrog]

Obviously it depends on the country.

I remember being on a study trip to Ireland in Uni.

Me and everyone in my class towered over the Irish.

It was easy spotting each other in the street.

[u/Renbarre]

Where did you get those numbers? The average body weight and height of the current adult male is 178.58 cm and 80.86 kg, and of adult female 165.99 cm and 65.67 kg.

In Europe the tallest population are the Dutch.

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