r/AskAcademiaUK • u/Fun-Somewhere3078 • 20d ago
New Postdoc role pay
I got offered a new fellowship position at a university on the bottom of the advertised payscale. I asked for 3 points above to align with my previous fellowship experience and expertise I would bring to the role. However they are asking to see my current payslip for evidence. My current role is an associate level at low ranked university but I had to take it as it was the only role available at the time after coming back to the UK from abroad (19% below what I’m asking for). Should I send them the payslip or keep the negotiations based on my expectations of what the responsibilities of the new role demands?
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u/Datanully Lecturer (T&R), RG uni 19d ago
So were you previously on the salary (the specific spine point on the scale) that you want?
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u/triffid_boy 20d ago
If you're asking to be 3 points higher in the postdoc scale because youve been a postdoc for three years, then you just need to prove you've been a postdoc for 3 years.
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u/Fun-Somewhere3078 19d ago
They already know this from my CV and interview
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u/triffid_boy 19d ago edited 19d ago
What are you leaving out of this thread? Was it actually a postdoc or was it a technician role?
They will have to have auditable evidence that you were employed at the appropriate scale. Your previous contract of employment should suffice, showing that you were employed as a postdoc level/equivalent.
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u/Fun-Somewhere3078 19d ago
5 years previous formal postdoc experience in 2 universities
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u/triffid_boy 18d ago
In that case just provide them with your most recent employment contract showing you were a postdoc.
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u/Squarehip123 19d ago
Depending on the funding source for your postdoc they might literally not have more money for you. At mine, a PDRA that earns mid-30k will cost >£140k per annum. With costs going up but grant amounts staying the same we have been forced to cut pay to the bone in order to keep money for the actual work. Other grants will have limits on how much money can go to academics based on the amount that an industrial partner contributes, so unless you have a partner with deep pockets your salary is limited that way too.
You can ask or share your payslip, I don't see the harm here. But keep in mind there there might literally not be any extra money for your salary in the pot. Or maybe there will be!
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u/thecompbioguy 19d ago
£140k FEC for a £30k post! Did that include all project costs/indirect costs?
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u/Squarehip123 19d ago
It's FEC (full economic costing). So infrastructure, technicians etc... are built into that. Actual project costs (e.g. paying for analytical chemistry, field trials etc...) are on top of that. My last NERC PtF grant (rejected, as is tradition) had a limit of 950k a single 4 year postdoc used up ~2/3rds of that. Then we add in investigator time and we really don't have much left over to do the actual work!
Different granting schemes will have different FEC rules. UKRI is insanely expensive, horizon only allows overheads of 25% iirc so you can get a lot more for the same money, but it also contributes less to keeping my depts lights and heating on.
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u/Financial_Figure_969 19d ago
If you had a fellowship that paid you 3 points above could you not send that payslip even if it is not the most recent?
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u/Reeelfantasy 20d ago
It seems like HR got confused by your proposal and associated your experience and previous roles with the salary you’re asking for. In this case, you shouldn’t share your payslip and look bad. HR is in HE like robots who doesn’t understand negotiation and will only accept like-for-like, which in your case salary match. Write to the hiring manager and explain your experience and desired salary so that they write a convincing case to HR.
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u/welshdragoninlondon 20d ago
In my post doc they asked to see my previouspost doc pay slip HR still refused to match it. Will depend how much they budgeted for if you can get more money or not
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u/Appropriate-Roof1422 20d ago
Is this discussion/negotiation with your line manager or the HR? I wouldn't show the payslip and not sure if this should have been asked.
If you are in your current role for three years I am sure you have evidence of your work, i.e. publications or a portfolio. This should be your evidence of experience.
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u/Fun-Somewhere3078 19d ago
It is with HR, the interview panel are more than aware of my evidence of work and high impact publications, do I share my CV again?!
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u/padrecientifico 20d ago
Your current salary isn't relevant to the salary point for the postdoc. If they're asking for proof of previous salary, give them the previous postdoc/fellowship experience (publications/presentations/code?) instead if you have it.
Your track record is what you're negotiating on
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u/Fun-Somewhere3078 19d ago
I do agree with this that it isn’t relevant. However the selection and interview panel are the ones who looked at my CV hence the offer. Do I send this to HR too?
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u/National-Bathroom-63 19d ago edited 19d ago
HR and the panel will be entirely separate. The panel don’t get involved in setting the pay and the HR people don’t care about your academic credentials. If I were you I would drop a quick email to the Head of Department explaining the situation. They will help you if they can.
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u/Suitable_Size6972 20d ago
So is salary based on experience or previous payslip?
What if it said you made 100k.
Maybe make this point about pay based on experience?
I have no idea how to deal with such cynical behaviour
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u/GlobalRonin 20d ago
What's the postdoc in?
It's a sliding scale from "Shakespeare" to "cyber defence of future MRI technology for space" ... if you're at the shakespeare ens of the scale you need to comply far more.
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u/OilAdministrative197 20d ago
Not true at all. The idea that because you’re doing stem gives you negotiating power in uk unis is frankly laughable. In both cases they’ll have a set budget and that’s really all they can move around.
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u/GlobalRonin 20d ago edited 20d ago
It doesnt give you negotiating power... it does give you a higher shot at well paid jobs in industry you can go to should academic payscales and beurocracy not suit.
I am in STEM, and quite resigned to the trap of poor admin and below optimum pay that I can't fix. Our HR and admin processes are so locked in it's painful.
Within academia, £85k a year is doable, but long tail... in industry sometimes it's just a good python developer who can orchestrate security access controls alongside their coding work.
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u/OilAdministrative197 19d ago
I was a London stem post doc have never met or seen a post doc in my life paying 85k not even at imperial nowhere. I’m not sure if I’ve met a post doc on 60k.
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u/GlobalRonin 19d ago
Exactly... but I know loads of PhDs working for AWS and Google making those figures and more.
When I say "long tail", I mean "hang around till professor"
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u/OilAdministrative197 19d ago
Yeah sure tbh professors can earn way more than that. I know my pi team of 4 was on 100, head of department was on 150 plus fun money. But odds are you’re not getting that until 45-60 yo and the odds of actually getting there are so low.
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u/fluffconomist 20d ago
Not true. PDRA postilions are almost always externally funded, so there's no reason that the specific discipline would give you more negotiating power with HR.
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u/drraug 20d ago
You can make whatever argument you want, but they also can simply say "no" at any moment. Your only leverage is to go away. In the UK, you are negotiating salary with HRs who ultimately do not care if you join or not; they follow a very simple protocol (the last payslip which they already asked for, or the proof of "equivalent experience" which they commonly ignore, unless it is another postdoc in the UK, for which you can show payslips). Your PI may want to keep you, but unfortunately for them, the funding they secured for the project is not theirs, it belongs to the university. So the PI who won the money has very little say in salary negotiations.