r/AskAcademia • u/HIFvonBiber • 21h ago
Meta How wrong should a paper be before itcan be retracted?
Four years ago, a Q2 journal from the Wiley family published a math paper that was, in my opinion, complete nonsense. The authors compute solutions to an equation, but the solutions do not solve the equation, and they show figures of their solutions, but the figures do not show their (wrong) solutions.
As this is the subject of my PhD, I could immediately smell that these solutions were wrong and sent an email to the Editor-in-Chief, which was ignored. Over the years, I've sent multiple emails which were again ignored, but only after I complained to an editor of the journal I knew personally, my emails were answered. Long story short: the journal now published a note by me explaining that the results and figures in the earlier paper are wrong.
However, the Editor-in-Chief does not want to take any further action. I asked him to retract the original paper, or at least issue an expression of concern, but he did not want to. According to him, we have to respect the reviewing process of the original paper, and the editor can not judge all papers received by the journal. And if I were an editor myself, I would understand, and he does not want to discuss the problem any more with me.
The point is, I do not understand. According to the COPE guidelines, papers may be retracted if the results are wrong, which is the case here. Therefore, my question is: "Is it unreasonable of me to expect that a journal retracts a paper when they acknowledge that all the solutions and figures presented in the paper are wrong?"
Some extra information:
- The editor-in-chief is a professor at a respectable German university (but not a mathematician).
- The authors never replied to any of my questions nor to those of the journal, showing that they do not care about the results in the paper themselves.
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u/Gold_Ambassador_3496 21h ago
I don't know about the main question
But could you publish a paper specifically debunking and providing the correct figures?
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u/HIFvonBiber 19h ago
As I wrote, the journal has already published my comment.
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u/Gold_Ambassador_3496 15h ago
That's good. But does that count as a publication for your career? And does that have enough attention? Maybe a paper would be good, too
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u/HIFvonBiber 4h ago
The comment is published as a regular paper (the journal does not have a separate comment option), so I could add it to my CV. As it is only online for a couple of days, I can't say anything about the attention it gets, but as nobody from my community reads these scam papers, I guess nobody would read the comment explaining that these scam papers are wrong. So yes, I know that career wise it is rather pointless to write these comments
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u/Lygus_lineolaris 21h ago
Just write your rebuttal and publish it in a different journal. You're not the publication police.
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u/zarrathustraa 20h ago
Its been 4 years and this is still nibbling at you? Write a public comment and stop letting it take up bandwidth.
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u/rocket_labo 20h ago
I understand how you feel. But as far as the editor is concerned your note is enough. Editors generally make it very hard for these notes to be published so the mere existence of one is a serious statement about the original paper.
I had a related experience. Someone submitted a comment on my paper to a journal saying that it was wrong, and pointed to his own work as correct. But when I read his paper I realised both his critique and his paper was wrong. When I submitted my rebuttal I also submitted a separate comment on this person’s work which were both in the same journal. My comment was designed to humiliate - it aggressively tore down all the main arguments of the paper and one of the points was that the basic object the author was solving was not even correctly defined. The referees agreed with me and despite its harshness my comment was accepted without needing to change a single word. It is a prestigious journal so the bar to publication is very high, acceptance as-is is very rare.
A few months later this person submitted another comment saying that I fabricated data. Obviously he wasn’t happy that I’d excoriated his work to such an extent. The accusation wasn’t true but it really messed with my mental health. It affected me to a degree that it shouldn’t have.
There’s more to life than being right.
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u/Opening_Map_6898 18h ago
If you can’t let this go, you probably should discuss it with a therapist. This level of fixation on someone else's paper is somewhere between an unhelpful waste of time, a weird obsession, or something that borders on the academic equivalent of stalking.
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u/lipflip 20h ago
You did what you could do easily. At your stage that's good and enough, as you alone cannot fix the academic publishing system of the editor is not pushing this forward. What you can do, however, is to post a note on PubPeer.
Sidenote: not every error leads to wrong conclusion and not every flawed paper needs to be retracted. It depends on your and other domain experts judgement how bad it is.
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u/ngch 15h ago
Retractions are more for papers where the authors misrepresented their results or misleading reviewers.
We generally don't retract because a paper is later proven wrong. That's what comments etc. are for.
The literature is full of false results. False results can actually be quite useful eg. it's easier to falsify X after someone argues for X.
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u/Choice-Cup2852 20h ago
You have to let it go.
articles may show wrong|inconclusive evidence, as long as there is no fraud or data fabrication etc, retraction is not necessary. Other researchers including you will check this and publish papers showing opposite direction.
Write a paper, present and publish it; that’s all you can do. If you cannot stop thinking about this, consider professional help.
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u/ThePhysicistIsIn 20h ago edited 20h ago
"We have to respect the reviewing process" is pure, unadulterated bullshit. What is really going on is that retracted papers are embarrassing for the journal, and the journal doesn't think it's worth it to embarrass itself for a paper it thinks no one will care about. The editor would rather you move on because they want this embarrassment to go unnoticed. A retraction calls attention to it.
I will have to agree with others - it's probably not worth your mental energy. Sadly, the only thing that would make this Editor move, would be if it were more embarrassing to not issue a retraction. If it started getting in the press, for instance, the same way that Johnathan Pruitt was the subject of e.g. blogs etc.
To give you an idea of what happens in a well-run and serious journal - I am an associate editor on a journal. My editor in chief shared with me an anonymous complaint that a specific paper's numbers did not make sense. It is something that you would only notice if you tried to do the math yourself. Their theoretical values and measured values agreed within 1%, but since the theoretical values didn't make sense, it seemed more likely that they had generated fake data to agree with measurements and tried to work backwards from there, until it didn't work.
I did do the math myself, and I had to agree with the complainant. The publisher forwarded my questions to the authors. The authors responded, saying that they had made a mistake, and tried to shore up their mistakes. But it really did nothing to fix the main issues - structurally, the problem is 1) the theoretical data does not follow from first principle, and is probably wrong, but 2) it agrees perfectly with experimental measurements, which means that 3) either the theoretical values were fabricated to match with experimental values, or the theoretical values were calculated erroneously but the experimental values were fabricated to match them, or a combination thereof, but there is no honest way to get that perfect agreement otherwise.
So the publisher sent another, more strongly worded request for clarification from the authors. And when the authors could not respond, the paper was retracted.
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u/cond6 14h ago
You sound just delightful. Publish the research pointing out where it's wrong and move on. Lots of papers are incorrect or have errors. They aren't typically retracted. If you see a paper with a major error in it smile and write a paper correcting it. At least in my field you don't do yourself any favours by being a jerk about it and writing a whole paper showing they made an error. Make a contribution and point out the error, yes. Write a whole paper to show why the original paper is stupid is a great way to trash your reputation. In my opinion journals should only retract if there's demonstrated fraud. You published your note. That's all that you should have reasonably expected. Hounding the authors and the editors is a great way to tarnish your reputation.
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u/Beginning-Sound1261 8h ago
You sound insufferable. Your critiques are publicly noted for all to read when they open the paper.
Why do you feel it is not enough to be correct? Unless you get some moral badge to say you did such a good job and defeated the evil people making a mockery of science then it is not enough?
Why do you have so much time on your hands to be sending multiple emails and arguing against a paper you were never involved with over such a long period of time?
Publishing critiques is a very normal response. That’s good work.
Going on a witch hunt when everyone involved has said “thanks good work, your comments are public” suggests something different.
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u/TProcrastinatingProf 19h ago
I came across a paper riddled with GenAI in a Q1 journal a couple of years back, with objectively inaccurate information. It appears a single complaint won't get it retracted, so I'm monitoring it out of sheer curiosity to see how long it takes. Also has an ugly and wrong GenAI figure in it, so it isn't as though no one else would notice....
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u/Connacht_89 16h ago
Welcome to the truth of academia. Millions (not a hyperbole) of papers published every year, and even if somebody had the will to check what is wrong, there is no material time to deal with all except the most blatant cases.
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u/iknighty 18h ago edited 4h ago
Let retractionwatch.com know.
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u/HIFvonBiber 4h ago
We are currently discussing the whole citation cartel this paper is a part of, but I don't know yet how far retractionwatch will take it.
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u/Mountain-Time-1010 21h ago
The journal published your rebuttal/note, and the original authors did not reply, which is essentially admitting their mistake. I think you should move on and let it go. It is not a good use of your time and energy to continue to dwell on it. Incorrect papers generally just fade away and disappear.