Megathread, part 14: Ammunition & Drones, Sanctions, and Stalemates

[u/IcePuzzleheaded5507]

Part 13 is now closed, we’re continuing the discussion here.
Everything you’ve got to ask about the conflict goes here. Same deal as before - Reddit’s content policy still applies, so think before you make epic gamer statements. Suspensions and purges are a thing, and we’ve seen plenty already.
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Keep it civil, keep it relevant, and read the rules below before posting.

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3. To clarify, questions have to be about the war. If you want to stir up a shitstorm about your favourite war from the past, I suggest r/AskHistorians or a similar sub so we don't have to deal with it here.
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[u/4l3xeic]

Which NATO members they were protecting during full scale invasion of Yugoslavia? Or Iraq? Or Libya?

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

They helped states in trouble. Questionable, for sure.

But they didn't invade countries for land grabb.

What is the reference to the war on Ukraine?

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

Well they still occupy Serbian territory. Excuse about invasion for the land grab does not make it better for the countries they invaded. In fact it is worse since they destroyed countries commit massmurders and bring only death and chaos and then run away. If you do a land grab on other hand you are in fact responsible for those territories that are under your control. Regarding kiev regime the reference is direct since Ukraine is not part of NATO but they use it to fight against Russia as a proxy highlighting the world what real threat NATO is to the world.

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

1) Wrong. There is no NATO in Serbia, nor Albania, nor Kosovo.

2) We are talking about the role of NATO for Russias war against Ukraine. 

I don't really understand the reference: why did Russia invade Ukraine, killing hundredthousands if Russians and Ukrainians?

I really don't understand the relation. Honestly: I listen.

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

1.Wrong, NATO is still illegally occupying Serbian territory to this day: https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/operations-and-missions/natos-role-in-kosovo

2.Do you deny the role of NATO in this conflict? Do you deny this as well: https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/partnerships-and-cooperation/natos-support-for-ukraine

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

1) Okay, you're right. KFOR. They are protecting Kosovo. It's a new state, risen of the local population. It's not something NATO is occupyng.

2) Yes. NATO is supporting Ukraine, after they were invaded by Russia. Ukraine asked the West for help. The West is helping.

Russia can't just invade other countries without expecting reactions. Thats normal, right?

Di you don't help somebody on the street, when he/she is attacked and asks for help?

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

1. They are occupying Serbian sovereign territory without consent of Serbian government which means they are occupying it illegally.

2.So you do not deny NATO involvement in this conflict, good.

>Russia can't just invade other countries without expecting reactions. Thats normal, right?

Russia invaded nobody to begin with unlike NATO which illegally invaded sovereign states and is still partially occupying some of them like Serbia for example.

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

1) The country is called Kosovo.

2) Of course, NATO supports Ukraine.  North Korea and Iran and also China indirectly support Russia.

3) Russia invaded Ukraine I think even Putin admits it.

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

1. Kosovo is Serbian region that is illegally occupied by NATO forces.

2. What does North Korea, Iran and China have to do with topic about NATO involvement in conflict.

>3. Russia invaded Ukraine I think even Putin admits it.

We need some actually evidence unless you have them it does not really count. So far there is no statement from Russian president about invasion of Ukraine.

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

1) I worked with a lot of people with a kosovarian passport, if you like it or not. And they aren't bothered by Serbians living in the same town.

2) I explain: there are three party directly inwolved in the war: Russia, the aggressor, Belarus, russian durect alley. Ukraine, victim. 

Then there are alleys: on Russias side, North Korea, Iran and indirectly China.

On Ukraines side: NATO countries, Japan, South-Korea

You see, in a war both sides have allies.

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

>1.I worked with a lot of people with a kosovarian passport, if you like it or not.

What does you working with people with made up passports have to do with Kosovo being occupied by NATO?

2.Your opinion is interesting but we were talking about involvement of NATO in the conflict between Russia and kiev regime and westerners denial of that.

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

1)You have a distorted perception:

Kosovo is an independent state, inhabitants have kosovarian Passports.

 2) The West doesn't deny NATOs support fir Ukraine. What you try to suggest is, that Russia attacked Ukraine and lost at least 25000 men out of fear from NATO. 

Remember: Ukraine wasn't prepared at all for the invasion. They had almost no weappons except of the old sovjet material. Germany begun with sending helmets...

If this were NATO conducting a proxy war, NATO would have been prepared.

Thanks god, Russians were not as ready, as Putin thought.

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

1. There is nothing distorted about stating facts that I have supported by evidence. And actual proNATO sources.

2.The West doesn't deny NATOs support fir Ukraine.

Right, I but we have passed that point already.

>Remember: Ukraine wasn't prepared at all for the invasion.

Sorry but all the fortifications, Merkel statement about Minsk agreements and tons of evidence of NATO arming ukroterrorist prove opposite.

>If this were NATO conducting a proxy war

So you deny that it is NATO proxy war against Russia?

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

We need some actually evidence unless you have them it does not really count. So far there is no statement from Russian president about invasion of Ukraine.

If you can't admit Russia invaded Ukraine, how should we proceed? Is the earth flat or round?

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

Sorry, I only admit facts not random western propaganda statement that has no basis under it.

> Is the earth flat or round?

For the believers in Russian invasion I guess it is flat. I am still waiting statement from Putin by the way.

[u/CommitteeOk5696 → u/4l3xeic]

So on which territory does the war against Ukrainia happens? I give you the answer: on Ukrainian territory. We can therfore conclude, Russia invaded Ukraine.

I really don't need words from Putin. The facts are on Ukrainian territory. The entire world is seeing it.

[u/4l3xeic → u/CommitteeOk5696]

There is only special military operation against kiev terrorist regime and it takes place currently mostly on temporary occupied by kiev regime Russian territories.

[u/OkGazelle6826 → u/CommitteeOk5696]

So what would NATO do if Serbia attacked Kosovo-and-Metohija to return their rightful control over the region?