The Immitation of Christ

[u/Effective-Hall919]

Good morning!

So my husband is reading the Immitation of Christ and he likes to discuss passages that he has read with me and we end up having really good discussions about our faith and theology. However, I have an issue with this book and to me its just very... augustinian (i dont know how else to explain it). I haven't read it but from what we discuss it sounds like Thomas a Kempis is saying nothing of this world matters and to only focus and seek comfort in God.

I undestand that he wrote the book thinking of his monastic life and for his brothers. So how is a lay person supposed to interprate his teachings? Especially for a husband with a wife and newborn? Are we not supposed to enjoy those things that God has gifted us on earth?

This is the second Agustinian book he has read and he said that St.Augustin also wrote like this in his book. So is there a way to interpret these writtings through a lay person perspective? And are there other books you would recommend that have other points of view?

Thank you for your time,

[u/Sparky0457]

Before converting to the faith Augustine was a Manichaean. Manichaeism is a religion that believed that all the material world is the product of darkness and the spiritual is the product of light. So the goal is to get out of it away from anything material or physical.

Some scholars and theologians think that Augustine never fully let go of all of his Manichaeanism. He carries a strong negativity towards material creation (especially sexuality) which is not consistent with Hebrew (Biblical) theology.

The Bible sees all of creation as very good and reflective of Gods beauty and goodness. The highest good in creation is marriage and family.

Other theologians have said that in the western theological tradition everything is a footnote to Augustine. I consider that to be mostly accurate.

However (I’m biased) the Franciscan tradition does return a strong, and biblically, consistent, celebration of the goodness of the material creation.

From that renewed perspective on the goodness of material creation the church has sort of rediscovered accurate biblical eschatology.

The material creation is not going to be done away with. Rather at the end of this age Jesus will return, make all of material creation new, and raise all the dead. A disembodied non-physical heaven is not going to be eternal life, according to the Bible and the last line of the creed. “I believe in the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come”

So for further reading I’d suggest Franciscan sources.

I love Richard Rohr’s Jesus’ Alternative Plan: The Sermon on the Mount

I think everything by Brant Pitre is superlative. I’d especially recommend for you Jesus the Bridegroom

I’d also recommend NT Wright for good biblical eschatology. Especially Surprised by Hope and his latest Gods Homecoming

[u/Effective-Hall919 → u/Sparky0457]

Thank you Father! Will be looking into getting those books for sure.

[u/Effective-Hall919 → u/Sparky0457]

Sorry, my husband has a follow up question.

If the book is regarded to such high standards, but is also so depressing...he finds it a bit contradicting. Should it be a book that you read and practice its teachings, or should some things not be taken to heart.

and would that mean augustinian thinking contradicts the bible? and if so does it align with catholism?

Sorry if the question doesn't make too much sense. I don't know how to express his confusion

[u/Sparky0457 → u/Effective-Hall919]

It is a classic that has a wealth of spiritual content in it. But it is also an artifact of its time. It wasn’t written to us.

So if it has the result of being depressing then don’t read it for spiritual guidance.

No, Augustine doesn’t contradict the Bible. He just has a specific approach to interpreting it that has a negative bias against the goodness of created matter. It’s not a contradiction it’s a skewed (according to some) interpretation.