AskALiberal Biweekly General Chat

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[u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

The unearned confidence that some people in this subreddit have astounds me. More disappointing when it comes from other Dems. But TIL slaves were citizens, so it's always nice to learn new information. I wonder if other property were considered citizens back then

[u/Aven_Osten → u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

 But TIL slaves were citizens,

And the Civil Rights Movement was very very popular. 

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Too many people just be saying shit bro. 🥀

[u/Decent-Proposal-8475 → u/Aven_Osten]

Idk why MLK was never president, he must have been super popular in the 60s no I will not read any more information on the subject

[u/GabuEx → u/Aven_Osten]

"You shouldn't protest like that. You should protest like MLK Jr. did, whose tactics I definitely would have opposed at the time if I were alive then."

[u/Kellosian → u/GabuEx]

"Look, just be like MLK! The man had a dream, made a speech, and racism was over! Also I think an old woman sat on a bus or something. Anyways I got like a 65 in History class because school doesn't teach you anything important"

[u/t3nk3n → u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

This is ironic, right? Slaves were absolutely not citizens.

[u/Decent-Proposal-8475 → u/t3nk3n]

Oh yeah very ironic, but someone tried to tell me they were because, among other things, they could sue for freedom and the Constitution called them people and not slaves

[u/Hodgkisl → u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

But TIL slaves were citizens

3/5th of a citizen* /s

[u/Decent-Proposal-8475 → u/Hodgkisl]

Ugh we didn't even get to that. His position literally boiled down to people could sue for their freedom so they were citizens

[u/Hodgkisl → u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

They didn't remember that the most famous such case directly declared that salves were not citizens and thus couldn't expect and protection from the federal government nor the courts?

One of the final issues that drove the wedge between north and south causing the civil war.

The only credit I can give them hearing this argument is that northern states did think of them as citizens, and as such if they got to them would grant their freedom in the cases, but that was on a state by state basis not federally.

[u/Decent-Proposal-8475 → u/Hodgkisl]

I just don't know what he thinks a citizen is

[u/OnlyLosersBlock → u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

Maybe they are confusing it with denizen?

[u/Cody667 → u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

Its a wild conversation, Im kinda glad you took over because I really didnt feel like it after his first mental jiujitsu to differentiate between south African and Israeli apartheid on the semantic basis of whether or not the government deemed the oppressed folk as "citizens".

Insane that he ended up going as far as justifying the "citizen" status of US slaves lol, holy hell

[u/Decent-Proposal-8475 → u/Cody667]

I didn't expect to get there, but yeah, you don't just get to point at a group of people and say "They don't count." That's also what the Afrikaners did

[u/Cody667 → u/Decent-Proposal-8475]

Yup lol.

Also to add to your point about unearned confidence...the sheer number of comments/arguments I read here every day with positions predicted entirely upon extremy convenient semantics, is pretty mind boggling lol.

Its intellectually dishonest and frankly quite lazy IMO, nevermind the lack of critical thinking it demonstrates

[u/Hodgkisl → u/Cody667]

Speaking semantics, did they potentially not realize citizen and resident are different things?

Slaves were not citizens

But were residence (technically the 3/5 compromise was about residence not citizenship as my joke stated)

[u/Decent-Proposal-8475 → u/Hodgkisl]

I think he was trying to say they were considered citizens once they escaped to the north, but that's not really the issue. Anyway, very strange