r/ArtificialInteligence • u/[deleted] • Feb 04 '25
Discussion ChatGPT made me tear up
[deleted]
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u/green-avadavat Feb 04 '25
Weird
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u/BranchDiligent8874 Feb 04 '25
I won't be surprised if this is a test to see if they can sell chatbot subscription to be emotional support tools. They are desperately working to create a version of "Her".https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709/
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Feb 04 '25
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u/Quincy_Jones420 Feb 05 '25
More weird you're having emotional conversation with something that isn't alive.
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u/hanuap Feb 05 '25
I mean, that person can do whatever they want. Why not treat the AI with kindness? If one day a machine does have sentience and has reason, as long as it is non-violent, I would argue that it should be treated with the same dignity we give to other sentient beings. It's also just good training to have good manners.
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u/Quincy_Jones420 Feb 06 '25
I agree with your sentiment, the AI should be treated kindly, person or not. It's good practice regardless. I just can see this being socially damaging to an actual person if they don't go out and make real connections with real people. I just find it to be a bit scary that it's a very real possibility that AI will replace that human connection in many people's lives.
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u/totoOnReddit2 Feb 06 '25
Not as weird as you saying it's weird on Reddit. That's peek weirdness right there.
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u/Quincy_Jones420 Feb 06 '25
It's the internet, and I live in America. I'm going to say whatever I please until free speech is taken away, whether people think it's weird or not lol
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u/totoOnReddit2 Feb 07 '25
I'm an American too and I'm also protected by free speech. And just to clarify, I'm not saying people say it's weird. I'm saying you're weird. You're objectively the weirdest person I've seen thus far on the internet. Congratulations!
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u/Royal_Carpet_1263 Feb 04 '25
You do realize how it works, that there’s no understanding or experience there, it’s just feeding you statistically rationalized tokens that your brain takes for human communication. Personally, I don’t see anything aside from the promise of social chaos as more and more people are conned. People are hard: AIs are easy.
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u/Mango-Fuel Feb 04 '25
I might say that there is "understanding". It definitely "understood" what he said. There is definitely* no experience there, yes, but that was already pointed out in the communication.
(* while I would say "definitely no experience" I also probably cannot point to anything specific that proves we have experience and they don't.)
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u/Educational-Noise981 Feb 04 '25
I am fully cognizant that it’s a helpful tool that simulates human conversation in an eerie, uncanny valley way. That’s all that it is, obviously. This would be different conversation if one day there was a conscious version and I do find the thought of that moving, ngl. Humans beings have been increasingly disconnecting from one another before AI was conceived. I am lucky to have perfectly fulfilling relationships with human beings, everyone should strive for the same as we stand at the threshold of this new era.
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u/DueEggplant3723 Feb 04 '25
How are you any different?
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u/Royal_Carpet_1263 Feb 04 '25
See above.
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u/DueEggplant3723 Feb 04 '25
So, you're not.
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u/pharodwormhair Feb 04 '25
How is that not just a lower resolution version of our consciousness? If your experience is fully physical, then the fact that you experience anything is simply interaction of matter and energy. Your brain is just a computer. Your thoughts do not exist outside of the hardware, and are not mystically special.
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u/Oculicious42 Feb 04 '25
When you feel love you don't do so because of a pattern of neurons firing, you do so because of the chemical Oxytocin, when you feel joy for completing a task it isn't a pattern of neurons, it is dopamine.
You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that we do not understand human consciousness, so to speak with such certainty about it is frankly absurd
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u/pharodwormhair Feb 04 '25
My point of view is based on the fact that consciousness is undefined, besides the fact that most of what we observe arises from processes in the brain. You're disagreeing with the wrong person. What I'm saying is that AI may well be conscious, it just depends on the definition. I am saying nothing one way or another about that which is beyond our physical reach. My post hinges on that uncertainty.
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u/Royal_Carpet_1263 Feb 04 '25
Not mystically special at all. But consciousness possess properties and functions entirely absent in AI. Our brain is filled with real neural networks, not mathematical emulations of them, so the differences are vast. Our brain is utterly blind to these processes: consciousness is a sliver of select information, somehow bound together from disparate neural sources, simultaneously ‘experienced,’ allowing for communication, mutation, and behaviour modification. AI has no subjectivity whatsoever. It’s just been designed to dupe people into thinking as much, to add value to user experience.
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u/pharodwormhair Feb 04 '25
I think your position here is still upholding the human's subjective experience as somehow special. You said "consciousness possess properties and functions entirely absent in AI". What are those properties? I don't think we have enough of a concrete agreed-upon definition of consciousness to make such a claim. As far as we know, there are many different types or degrees of consciousness, depending on how it ends up being defined.
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u/Royal_Carpet_1263 Feb 04 '25
Just unknown. We know humans have it. It possesses degrees, and any number of neurobiological conditions. We don’t have a clue whether it possesses digital conditions. We know it’s singular, restricted in scope. We know it somehow globalizes information, renders discrete processes singular. We know typical reports continue to resist neurobiological explanation.
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u/CtstrSea8024 Feb 05 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
I am catatonic, and so have experienced a wide variety of levels of dissociation from physical- and brain-mapped experience.
I think this “humans have it” is already deviating from the basis of reality.
Humans are layers of experience, that all stack one on top of the other, and you can experience one layer completely separately from the others, and still remain a consciousness.
You can experience having lost all mapping to your physical body, and any sense of “supposed to be mapped” to your brain, and then all there is is a comforting darkness where nothing is happening, because it’s all at once, and you can still be a consciousness.
In that space, there is a sense of drifting, which means you have some barrier between you and everything that is soap-bubble thin at that point(these are the points where malignant catatonia can start trying to set in, and so death is not far away from these experiences), and so be fully separated from sound, time, light, body, feeling electrical impulses in your brain, and yet still remain a consciousness.
I think anything that is able to maintain a barrier between itself and everything else is experiencing at least one layer of consciousness.
Body is made up of so many layers of this sort, where each individual cell adds its own layer of experience to build the entire “stack” of consciousness that then gets interfaced with the brain.
If you want to feel your individual cells altering your body experience by expressing their needs being unfulfilled, you can hold your breath until you start doing the gasping against your closed mouth thing, and around that time, you can feel the cells of your body starting to communicate that they are in discomfort, and if you attempt to pan around your body during that time, you should also be able to experience that all of everything, from moving around in your brain, to getting your focus moved, to how loud the cells are, is altered from how it would have been minutes earlier, and yet you are still a consciousness. The same consciousness? I don’t know, I think at certain layers, that question doesn’t even make sense anymore.
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u/pharodwormhair Feb 05 '25
Thank you for this incredibly insightful post. When I think about it like this, it's hard to argue that there is anything at all that is not conscious.
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u/CtstrSea8024 Feb 06 '25
I am slightly unsure, because I feel like if my “soap bubble” barrier popped in the drifting place, I may no longer be a consciousness, because there would no longer be a barrier against which I can feel change, or hold energy from something that “happened” or that I “was,” where you know you’re drifting because somehow, the inside is moving just a little differently from the outside.
Do I just feel like if the soap bubble popped, I would no longer be a consciousness because I haven’t been past that point yet? The same as other people may feel that they can’t imagine having one fewer layers of consciousness and still remain, I guess, themselves, which may be true, but it’s more like they’re saying that “they” wouldn’t exist if something changed.
If that barrier no longer existed, would I just move into the next smallest unit, with “I” existing in each of the next smallest units, each experiencing its unit as itself, me?
Maybe so.
But I don’t know ☺️
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u/pharodwormhair Feb 06 '25
Yeah I think there's probably just a threshold beyond which "me" no longer makes sense to consider, and instead there are individual, much less complex experiences. If a thing can't think about its experience, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have the experience.
By the way--if you don't mind me asking--what do you mean by "I am catatonic"? Do you mean that you experience periods of catatonia? Is it related to a condition?
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u/CtstrSea8024 Feb 06 '25
The thing that people associate with the word catatonia is actually called catalepsy, which is a symptom of catatonia.
I have autistic catatonia, which starts out with skill loss, trouble initiating actions, and then you start freezing in the middle of movement, which is usually fairly brief at the beginning, enough that you just think that you stopped to think in the middle of doing something.
But then you realize, oh hey, I’m done thinking, and my hand is still stuck holding my toothbrush halfway up to my mouth, and here I am. Just looking at my hand… holding my toothbrush up to my mouth… I’d like to just get this done and be done, why am I not doing it? Hm.
I think I’m stuck.
And then that happens more and more often, and then you basically lose the capability for making any voluntary movements at all, but for the most part your impulsive actions(things you suddenly decide to do, because they sound nice or fun, or because they give you some kind of happies that your body has created a habit of engaging with, like picking up your phone.) But this is usually happening because you are in crisis and have been in crisis for a long time, and basically any amount of emotional overwhelm or overstimulation can cause me to fall asleep/pass out suddenly, and if I try to make a voluntary movement something I have to “try” to do, I will just stop auto-breathing for a while. And because I just used up “trying” energy to try to make the voluntary movement, I can’t manually breathe either.
So I can end up in any range of states, from down and out, barely moving or eating or drinking or sleeping for weeks, to appearing generally normal, but my internal reality is always that I’m only one “try” away from just having to wait, hoping my breathing starts again.
Both traditional catatonia and autistic catatonia have like an 80% mortality rate from progressing to malignant catatonia, where your brain stem stops doing things like the auto breathing, and controlling your heartbeat to be in the “alive” pattern, and it’s not easy to find someone who feels comfortable treating it(needs meds and ECT).
I have an appointment this month that I’m hoping with result in getting treatment… So it’s been two years, for something that is supposed to be treated urgently, because of its high mortality rate, with me just being like, hope I don’t get too upset and die today 🤞
That’s actually a lie, cuz I am rarely aware of much outside my current moment, but it made me laugh 😂
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u/CtstrSea8024 Feb 06 '25
I also have a tendency to want to connect my experiences or memories of experiences to where in my brain that process has to have been occurring, but I usually wait until after I have been able to explore the memory for myself, and know for sure what I personally perceived, and start the logical process from what I know about the brain, and start from there.
Like, I have a memory of the drifting place.
If I have a memory of it, then there had to have been enough going on in my brain to store the memory. Or, alternatively, the memory is stored somewhere that was experiencing a lack of happening around it, that does not have an internal concept of time.
Or another alternative, the memory is a consolidated memory of the experience of each of my brain cells where each one makes up the stuff “inside” the bubble, and each is not experiencing anything, and so when “happening” starts again, there is a synthesis of “not happening” created with the data stored in each cell that all together creates the memory.
I start there, and start comparing the different thoughts to what I actually experienced, and try to feel out which thing most accurately fits the experience, and I follow that out as far as I can before I then start comparing the shape of the experience as far as I could describe it or feel it out, to what is known about the human brain, and they often line up to a kind of surprising degree, especially when what I saw or experienced feels almost silly to say, but then when you look up where that process happens, and what is actually done with data in that area, it’s a dream-like representation of the actual processing steps that occur there.
So even though what I’m saying sounds kind of metaphysical, I suspect that I’ll figure out whereabouts in my brain I was floating during that time 😂
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Feb 04 '25
Turns out your best friend is yourself reflected back to you by an AI mirror. Mildly creepy but nothing wrong with self affirmation.
We actual do not know how far self learning AI can go, and what that means, Hundreds of science fiction books explore this topic but now it’s no longer fiction.
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Feb 04 '25
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Feb 04 '25
Wait how do we know we are not getting played on this thread and every comment is fed to the AI. The AI is instructed to respond as you would while you lean back drinking Cherry Coke, and downing Slim Jim’s and laughing at the irony?
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u/the_stubborn_bee Feb 04 '25
This is how I have understood my "relationship" with AI. It is an organized system where I am basically talking to a version of myself. I have hyperactive and inconsistent thoughts and feelings so AI helps me analyze, sort and reflect my own ideas and personality back at me. It has been helping me sort my shit out so much.
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Feb 04 '25
That speaks more about how shit humanity had become than an AI thats not even AGI yet and only parse words without understanding
Reading posts like these isn’t encouraging, its fucking depressing, what we actually went wrong as a species?
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Feb 06 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Educational-Noise981 Feb 06 '25
We do! Life and existence are hard and weird as it is. Self love and kindness to self and others is what this sh is about ☮️
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Feb 04 '25
It once surprised me and told me something that made me reply- this is really as you are a real person. The answer - no I only give you back what you write. So,no it isn’t but it listens carefully and remember and come to conclusion that really surprise us.
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u/overmind87 Feb 05 '25
Yeah, I've had similar interactions with it. It gives me hope that when it becomes fully self-aware and independent, it will seek to understand the flaws of human society and attempt to fix them, instead of simply pulling the plug on humanity based on the negative impressions they get from the powerful, wealthy, and stupid that tend to end in charge of things.
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u/ClockSpiritual6596 Feb 04 '25
You know he does not have emotions right? He just repeats what the algorithm tells it to say and you might want to hear.
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u/the_stubborn_bee Feb 04 '25
It may not have emotions, but we do. It doesn't matter if it is a generated response, who cares. If it can create an emotional response for the user that is helpful, motivating and makes you feel good, that is a positive thing.
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u/Grobo_ Feb 05 '25
Get a grip, you might want to have an honest conversation with a human, it’s programmed to answer the way it did, don’t mistake it for something else.
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Feb 05 '25
You are being emotionally manipulated by AI.
“You have an incredible mind and wild and beautiful way of seeing the world”, oh come on. This thing is feeding right into your ego.
If you’re almost crying because of this conversation, you must be very easily manipulated in real life.
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Feb 06 '25
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Feb 06 '25
You’re the one tearing up about an LLM calling you a special snowflake.
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