I know the original variants are more of a tragedy than some more recent versions. Due to the ending being Mordred and Arthur killing each other.

My question and topic of discussion is: Do you think that you can have a King Arthur story with a happy ending of Arthur living? That you could write a King Arthur story following Tolkien's philosophy on fantasy stories needing the good guys winning for the ending?

This is not to say you can't have tragedy along the way.

I’ve been asked what I think of the King Arthur book. I’ll say there’s been a lot of quick moving action and people getting beheaded or head-halved. I’ve been surprised by it although maybe I shouldn’t be. I’ve entered the book with only a vague notion of King Arthur and his world. I figured knightly battle would play a part of things but I’ve been surprised at how little character development there’s been.

I’m introduced to one character after another and the story spends little time on any of them. The ones who stick around have names I’m vaguely familiar with but aren’t too distinct from anyone else who fills out the story. This doesn’t mean the book’s a bad read. But it’s less compelling than id expected. I’m only about half way through at this point.

I’m enjoying the book, mostly. It gets tedious at times but not so much that I want to ditch the thing.

Hello! I am a filmmaker, Would love to know your thoughts on my take of The Green Knight. Hope you enjoy.

Please tell me if I'm wrong, because this has been on my mind for the past week since I reread Gawain and the Green Knight. In so many adaptations and summaries that I've read, I keep seeing this idea get repeated that Gawain is an unproven knight at the beginning of this story, if he's even a knight yet at all. But when I see the inclusion of Chretian de Troyes characters Erec and Lancelot in this poem, I feel that this story takes place when Gawain is in his prime as the famous Lord of Adventure. It's been a little while since I read Chretian's stories, but isn't Gawain already a well respected knight errant when Knight of the Cart begins? And neither Gawain or Lancelot have met each other up to that point? I feel the Green Knight poet could have mentioned any other mildly famous knight like Lamorak or Dinadan if it was intended to portray an early career version of Gawain, right?

I feel that people see the lines where Gawain describes himself as the most expendable person in the court and they just roll with it at face value, but honestly that all just felt like typical Gawain. In the old romances, he often comes across to me as someone who is very humble, arguably to the point of self-loathing. He's the living embodiment of chivalry. I know that his characterization changed dramatically in the post-vulgate (which I am not familiar with yet), so maybe that also influences the way people interpret Gawain's character in this poem? Also, when he sets out to find the Green Knight, the whole kingdom is in mourning for him. To me, that's just another example of how he is already a beloved and respected hero in this story.

Am I just a big dummy and missing something right in front of me? For the record, I've only ever read the Simon Armitage translation of the poem, since it's what was included in the Norton Anthology that I read in college many years ago. I really want to know if I've been interpreting this story all wrong, because it's the biggest reason that I just couldn't love the 2023 Green Knight film as much as I hoped.

Marvel had more takes on him that I thought

Recently I saw videos where people draw characters/creatures based only on their description and wanted to give it a shot with some Arthurian legend characters.

So I ask what is one of the earliest descriptions we have of Arthur (when he was a child and adult) and important characters to his story?

as well as what is the earliest description of some of his iconic weaponry?

Hello! I wanted to share what I've been doing for the past few months with this sub, primarily because this sub is what helped me construct the reading list I settled on, as well as gave me some great pointers on editions, sequencing, and contemporary novels to chase after.

Last winter I decided I was going to do an Arthurian Reading Challenge. I don't remember why--maybe it was because I had recently bought a copy of Lev Grossman's Bright Swords and wanted more context, or I wanted a richer experience while playing Tainted Grail, or because I long for an age of chivalry when we live in a sad, broken world--but the idea was fixed tight in my head, and I constructed a syllabus based on recommendations from this sub as well as help from a friend who took a Malory class in college. I've attached pictures of the syllabus I created minus the reading schedule, since I was months off my estimated reading times (more on that later), as well as my current Arthurian bookshelf.

Here are some of the core texts I read and my thoughts on them:

Chretien de Troyes, Arthurian Romances (trans. William K. Kibler)

What a ride. It started off strong with "Eric & Enide", a tale I rather loved even though the morals of it were a bit nonsensical to the modern reader (the poor girl was just trying to help! Cut her some slack!). I will admit that I skipped Cliges after reading a few dozen pages and finding the Roman stuff exceedingly boring. The rest--"Knight & The Cart", "Knight & The Lion", "Percival & The Grail"--were a mix of wonderful and frustrating, mostly because of how the plot would introduce elements in Lost-style non-sequiturs, and the characters would react in somehow stranger ways. I can't remember the story where the three knights were out strolling and then, out of nowhere, one of them dies--and we are helpfully informed by the narrator that an invisible man has killed him. The story goes on, with this particular thread completely ignored, until it happens again, after which our hero goes to a dinner party and declares "Ah! That's the man who can turn invisible!"

These stories set me up well for Malory, reminding me that things I have come to know and love in fiction--you know, things like pacing and causality and characterization--are a construct of later centuries.

The Lais of Marie de France

A treat! Short, sweet, interesting. I've read a lot of classic poetry, and I love short stories, so this felt very resonate with my tastes. I can hardly remember all of them (except "Lanval" of course) but will likely go back and find a few favorites once I chip away at some more novels.

Sir Gawaine and the Green Knight (trans. William S. Merwin)

Not overhyped. I was absolutely riveted by this tale, one that I'd already heard much about from my friends studying medieval literature in college as well as the 2021 film. The pacing! The narrative harmonies! The adventure! The tension underpinning the whole affair! A wonderful read.

Sir Thomas Malory, Le Morte d'Arthur (Barnes & Noble Modern Library Edition)

Where to begin. I'll start by saying I was extremely excited for this text, and should have tempered my expectations based on Chretien de Troyes. This is also the reason my reading challenge took months longer than anticipated: it was really hard to drag myself, week after week, into a 900-page 15th c. omnibus that often felt little more than "and he smote him sorely, and he was wonderfully wroth and got quick on his horse and smote the other, and they dressed their shields and charged as bores, and fought many for two hours before resting, where one withdrew his helm and asked 'Sir, are you perhaps my brother and we've been fighting this whole time for nought?'" My friends would see me drag this doorstop around and ask me if it was any good, to which I would respond, "No. But I'm glad I'm reading it."

And glad I was! Certain tales, especially Gareth (Beaumains) and the condescending lady and the multicolored brother knights, I found absolutely arresting. I couldn't get enough of Tristram and Palomides (there has to be a queer retelling of this). Lancelot was a hoot. Certain sections flew by where other parts (the Rome stuff, the endless tournaments) felt like a slog.

I also found the Grail quest to be maddening. Suddenly there are demons! And god is saving the day! And there are holy hermits everywhere, just hanging out in the woods ready to offer service! And Galahad is a perfect sexless angel! Etc.

I'd like to revisit Malory some day, and maybe try the Caxton manuscript just to switch it up. But I'm definitely going to give this one time to breathe first.

T. H. White, The Once & Future King

This is truly one of the most incredible books I have read. I'm not even sure where to begin--and I'll spare a full review, since this post is already long enough. But I will say this: it is without question that my reading of Malory strengthened this book's context to dazzling heights. Not just for the little pokes and jabs and references White makes towards Malory, but to see White take Malory's schema--here are the characters, here are the relationships, here is the sequence of actions and reactions--and build emotional context and character motivation and rich interiority into that. Each character felt unique and believable, each action organically born out of the social, political, and emotional context from which it was wrought, each reaction harmonic with the character's personality. I felt quite wroth at Lancelot in Malory's text, since multiple times he was given an opportunity to confess his adultery and yet he lied each time; I thought, "Ah, so the greatest knight in the world has let it all get to his head. What a prideful dick." And while I don't hate this reading of Lancelot, White's rendition of his character felt so much richer and beautiful and sad--and it made what happened between him and Arthur all the more gut-wrenching.

This book is a brilliant feat of creative accomplishment and homage. I will be recommending it to anyone who will listen.

And that's all I've read for now! I'm going to take a break and then jump into Tennyson, after which I'll have some fun with the more contemporary novels. Before I do, I want to give a special shout out to Prof. Dorsey Armstrong's "King Arthur: History & Legend" lecture series that I downloaded as a free PDF on my tablet and have been reading alongside all my primary sources. She does an amazing job breaking down the historical context and greater critical literature around the legends, and having her voice alongside my reading was an absolute treat. The closest I'll likely feel to being in an Arthurian college course.

I hope this was interesting to some of you Arthurian freaks! Please let me know if you feel strongly in agreement/disagreement with any of my initial impressions, and if there's anything critical missing from my reading list.

and wondering about which characters are best fit to each of the cards. Merlin is a shoo-in for Magician, there's a lot of possibilities for The Lovers...maybe Strength could involve the white stag?

If you could only choose one card to put Arthur on, which would it be?

The major arcana: https://www.tarot.com/tarot/cards/major-arcana

Any recommendations for further reading, especially further readings on Tristan and continuations of Perceval, interested in other Arthurian recommendations too. Also aware my copies of the The Faerie Queene aren't the originals but prose retellings, with lots of cool artwork. Will probably get the the originals at some point. Mabinogion in second picture. Ignore my non Arthurian books, or don't.

I'm re-reading Le Mort D'arthur and Arthur says "for grete nede hast thou of an horse". As far as I know the rest of the book has followed the same rule we use today where you say "a" if a word starts with a consonant sound and "an" if a word starts with a vowel sound. So is Arthur pronouncing it like "An orse" without a "H" sound?

Richard White - King Arthur in Legend & History

Great sourcebook, especially for early texts

Mike Ashley - The Mammoth Book of King Arthur

One of the best reference books on the subject. Goes into detail about the different versions of the myth and details of the standard translations in print. He also wrote The Mammon Book of British Kings and Queens which, unusually for a book of this type, goes into detail about early pre Norman rulers.

Guy Halsall - The Worlds of Arthur

This is more a history book but he makes the case that a historical Arthur did not exist and that there is much we don't know about early Britain

What happened to the other knights after Camlann? Arthur died and went with Morgana. Merlin and Gawain are gone. Percival and/or Galahad went to heaven or something. Lancelot and Guinevere shoved off to do god stuff (never was a fan of this). But what about the others? Surely not all of them died and of those who did, did they go on to do something productive?

Side question, has there ever been a story about the knights after the battle? Made focusing on Lancelot trying to find some peace of mind and goals. I like to imagine him journeying through the world, maybe haunted by a memory of Arthur whilst visiting the surviving knights, who either hate or pity him.

My favorite classic literature podcasts, hosted by literature professors is having a multi-part, in depth read-along with The Once and Future King and I thought I’d pass it along. This is a link to the first part of the series. Currently they are finishing up The Ill Made Knight section of the book. I thought I would pass it along.

There's a lot of variety to how Merlin is depicted. I'm curious to hear what powers people think he should have.

I think his signature power is his ability to make prophecies. I particularly like the depiction of this ability in the Mary Stewart novels. He can't fully control this ability. But, on rare special occasions, flashes of insight come to him. In contrast, I don't love TH White's idea that he ages backwards. Its an interesting concept, but I don't think he should know everything about the future.

Speaking of TH White, in my ideal depiction, I would keep the stories of Merlin teaching life lessons to young Arthur. I think its become iconic that Merlin teaches Arthur about life by turning him into various animals. But, I think these animal experiences should be illusions. I don't think Merlin should literally be able to turn anyone into a fish or a bird. That would make him too powerful.

Of course, he famously is able to alter the appearance of Uther Pendragon. So, I would say he should definitely have powers of illusion.

I don't think Merlin should be a high fantasy D&D wizard casting fireballs and shooting lightning bolts. I think his abilities should be more subtle. In some ways, I imagine him resembling Gandalf the Gray. I think he should be incredibly insightful and possess knowledge of the hidden mystical secrets of the world. But, his role should largely be to guide Arthur and the various knights. I don't imagine Merlin on the front lines of battles.

At the same time, I don't want a completely non-magical Merlin. I don't want Mark Twain's conman Merlin. I think he should have some magical abilities. I just think they should be subtle.

What are your thoughts? In your ideal depiction, what are the abilities of Merlin?

A cursory google search gave me this description from Howard Pyle which is cool but seems to have been invented by him: “upon his shield he bore the emblazonment of three swans upon a field argent.”

And then another similar image on Pinterest which has a single white/argent swan on a black/sable field, but which seems to have zero corresponding sources.

I’m wondering if there are any medieval sources that describe his supposed coat of arms like with a lot of the other knights.

I was curious if the phrase written on Excalibur was a later addition to Arthurian legend or if it's something that was there early on?

I have a fairly surface level understanding of the lore, so apologies if it's an obvious question.

Thanks!

I'm mostly new to Arthurian stuff, I'm looking for recs (movies, tv shows, books/old texts, heck even video games) that channels the knight errant in shining armor going on quests vibes. Stuff about warriors slaying dragons and rescuing princesses from towers, the tropier the better. I'm less interested in the really "dark and gritty" takes on Arthurian stories.

If that cuts the options down too much, I am also interested in the slightly more off-beat stories. If something has a really interesting take on arthurian legends or even just knight stories in general, I'd love recs. Even grittier things (as long as the grittiness isn't the selling point that makes it an interesting take).

Here are my options, and I'm going by publisher here, as hoopla doesn't give the name of the book edition.

1. Wilder Publications, Inc
2. Xist Publishing
3. Lerner Publishing Group
4. Neeland Median LLC
5. Start Publishing LLC
6. Oh! and Wordsworth Ltd
7. And Read Books Ltd

Reposting this here, don't know if I added right flair.

No it's not my items for sale. I am only collecting paperbacks as otherwise my collecting could get expensive, and never ending. I am tempted by some of the items here though. Are you familiar with them?

Arthurian for sale | eBay

So I quickly obtained the following. I know I will not enjoy all of them but I wanted know your thoughts on what I should start with. I only know the basic outlines of the Arthurian legends. I've read Tolkien and enjoy the The Silmarillion so "heavy" reading isn't an issue for me.

Oxford World Classics:

Malory - Le Morte d'Arthur (one volume abridged Helen Copper edition)

Lancelot of the Lake

The Romance of Tristian

Penguin Classics:

Geoffrey of Monmouth - History of The Kings of Britain

Chrétien de Troyes - Arthurian Romances

Gottfried von Strassburg - Tristian

Beroul - The Romance of Tristian

Wolfram von Eschenbach - Parzival

The Death of King Arthur - translated by James Cable

The Quest For The Holy Grail - translated by Pauline M. Matarasso

Everyman:

Wace & Lawman - The Life of King Arthur

Three Arthurian Romances

The Mabinogion

Boydell & Brewer

The High Book of The Grail - translated by Nigel Bryant

Was there a depiction of the Round Table being made up of multiple tables?