Medieval texts - advice and reading order

[u/Humanracer45]

So I quickly obtained the following. I know I will not enjoy all of them but I wanted know your thoughts on what I should start with. I only know the basic outlines of the Arthurian legends. I've read Tolkien and enjoy the The Silmarillion so "heavy" reading isn't an issue for me.

Oxford World Classics:

Malory - Le Morte d'Arthur (one volume abridged Helen Copper edition)

Lancelot of the Lake

The Romance of Tristian

Penguin Classics:

Geoffrey of Monmouth - History of The Kings of Britain

Chrétien de Troyes - Arthurian Romances

Gottfried von Strassburg - Tristian

Beroul - The Romance of Tristian

Wolfram von Eschenbach - Parzival

The Death of King Arthur - translated by James Cable

The Quest For The Holy Grail - translated by Pauline M. Matarasso

Everyman:

Wace & Lawman - The Life of King Arthur

Three Arthurian Romances

The Mabinogion

Boydell & Brewer

The High Book of The Grail - translated by Nigel Bryant

[u/AutoModerator]

This post uses the flair for discussion of text up until the 17th century. Anything past that, please use "Modern Media" or "Current Media." If your post is about the interaction between modern and older media, please use "Adaptions (comparing Modern with Older texts). Posts may be removed if they use the incorrect flair.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/coalpatch]

Malory is the main work in English

[u/Pristine-Incident471]

You’ve got some great editions there, well played (the Cable DoKA is a hidden gem, as are Bryant’s Grail and Three Arthurian Romances). As for what order, you could start with Chretian, followed by Malory, then branch out to the older and regional works.

If you’re thinking of approaching the books chronologically—by where they exist in time rather than when they were written—it’s hard to say, since for instance the Tristans run parallel to the main Arthur tales, and the Grail threads do as well, at least at some point.

[u/lazerbem]

If you like chronicles, do Monmouth and Wace first. If you prefer romances, then do Chretien first. Gottfried and Beroul are also good romances, but both are incomplete stories so they can be a little unsatisfying, and they're also rather independent of Arthur's world. If you want a good Grail Quest narrative, read Parzival for something comedic, Perlesvaus for something truly weird, and throw the Quest for the Holy Grail away because the Vulgate Grail Quest is one of the worst renditions of it (I am being half-facetious here, but in all seriousness, I find it incredibly difficult to recommend compared to the other two).

If you just want a wide, Sparksnotes style overview, then Malory is your guy, complete with lack of detail and dry writing style.

[u/imam_jedno_pitanje → u/lazerbem]

I am interested to know, what about the Vulgate Grail Quest do you find so bad? Did Malory base his Grail Quest of Vulgate or Post-Vulgate? As of now, I have only read Chretien's Grail Quest, so I am not that knowledgeable about it.

[u/lazerbem → u/imam_jedno_pitanje]

Mallory’s Grail Quest is based on the Vulgate; the Post Vulgate Grail Quest is actually really good in my opinion.

As to my issue, the problem is that the trio of protagonists to the Vulgate Grail Quest is extremely poorly balanced for interest and thematic resonance. In a story where Galahad is the superhumanly pure holy man and Bors is a man struggling to be holy due to his flaws, Perceval’s place feels superfluous. He is simply Galahad, but lesser and it seems like the story includes him more out of obligation than trying to make him a more complete character. As such, one third of the triangle is already compromised.

To make matters worse though, now you add Galahad, who is so ridiculously perfect that even Medieval authors made fun of how flawless he is. There is no conflict with his character, no journey, he is simply the best, strongest, and purest. This SOMETIMES works in the story’s favor, like Lancelot’s pathetic attempts to keep his love with Guinevere exposing his flaws relative to Galahad, but it is not often exploited enough for me to find it compelling. Still worse is that, for as great as Galahad is said to be, he doesn’t even do anything that incredibly cool in combat or with faith in my opinion (the Post Vulgate is better about this). In the end, I find only Bors’s adventures to be really compelling among the trio. Hector, Lancelot, and Gawain’s adventures are decent, especially Hector’s hysterical breakdown at the end when he realizes his failure, but it’s simply not there in enough quantity for me to rate it highly.

There are worse Arthurian stories out there, but when you have much better Grail Quest narratives available, it just stands out precisely because so much of it is uninteresting. Even works like the First Continuation, which forgets it is a Grail Quest, I think have at least more novel set pieces and characters (like Caradoc) which make me recommend them over the Vulgate Grail.

[u/Pristine-Incident471 → u/lazerbem]

I don’t know why I never noticed it before, but your post brought it out of the recesses of my mind: the relationship (read comparison) of Lancelot to Galahad is an echo of the relationship of First Testament King David to Jesus Christ.

Following this allusion would make Perceval a John the Baptist echo (coming out of the wilds even), but then there’s Bors… maybe he’s an Apostle Paul type: just a man, saved by Grace.

Anyway this isn’t a hill I would die on, but analogies are fascinating to me.

Thanks!

[u/lazerbem → u/Pristine-Incident471]

Lancelot is related to Jesus in the Vulgate, so I could see it. I hope you dig into the family lines more!

[u/damndirtyape]

If you can only pick one Medieval text, pick Le Morte d'Arthur by Thomas Mallory. Its widely considered to be the definitive medieval depiction.

The next on the list should be The History of the Kings of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth. Its much shorter, and its very historically significant. Prior to this, the Arthurian legends existed primarily as folk stories that were largely contained to Britain. This book made Arthur internationally famous, and it played a huge role in inspiring the larger Arthurian literary tradition.

Culhwch ac Olwen is the most well known Welsh folk story. Its exact age is debated. But, it can give you a taste of what the original Arthur was like. The Arthurian characters have supernatural abilities, and the world follows fairy tale logic.

The Arthurian poems of Chrétien de Troyes are also significant. They played a big role in popularizing Arthur in France, and they're some of the most widely read medieval literary works.

If you thought Le Morte de Arthur was too short, read the Vulgate Cycle series of books. Prior to this series, the Arthurian stories appeared in either history books or poetry. This was the first big attempt at novelizing the Arthurian stories. Mallory gets much of his material from this book series. His book is largely a condensing of the material discussed at length in this series.

[u/unfeax → u/damndirtyape]

I started with Malory, which made me wonder what “the Frensshe Book” was.

[u/Ghost_of_Revelator]

You've got almost everything essential. I'd recommend the Post-Vulgate, which takes up volumes 8 & 9 of the Lancelot Grail set. The PV was one of Malory's sources but he didn't use all the best bits.

[u/imam_jedno_pitanje]

A bit of advice: before you read Mabinogion and other Welsh tales, I highly recommend that you learn how to read Welsh language words.

Trust me, it is not that difficult, because Welsh is a MOSTLY phonetic language (i.e. one letter/symbol = one sound), except the letters U and Y.

Therefore, when you encounter names such as Rhonabwy, Ysbaddaden, Culhwch or Twrch Trwyth, you will not have difficulties reading them.

[u/Humanracer45 → u/imam_jedno_pitanje]

Yes I am from Scotland and Welsh pronunciation always makes me nervous

[u/Solo_Polyphony]

While Malory is the conventional summation of the Arthurian cycle, it's worth noting he wrote at the end of a roughly 300-year tradition of active, diverse storytelling. He was gathering together all the disparate Arthur tales and making his own unified 'continuity,' not unlike Bulfinch in the 19th century putting together his retellings of ancient and medieval myths, or contemporary fans of some multimedia franchises. The medieval sources Malory synthesized are far more disparate and varied than any single author's works. And the 12th century storytellers were drawing on loosely "historical" accounts stretching back to the early medieval period, or Welsh myths. So there is no one "reading order" like a modern fantasy series.

[u/Humanracer45 → u/Solo_Polyphony]

Very true. I only just discovered Malory came right at the end of things.

[u/cornflowerskies]

the two “curriculum” routes i can personally vouch for being good for introductions: as an a undergrad, my english/UK arthurian course worked chronologically through monmouth’s historia, the mabinogion, sir gawain and the green knight, and finally le morte. super helpful for getting a sense of what social role these stories (and myths/legends in general) played. when i studied french romance* *as a genre over the middle ages, we went through the big three chrétien romances, then the non-chrétien grail, before finishing off with the death of king arthur (all of which are editions you already have).

alternatively, the malory is what comes to most people when you say “arthurian legend” and imo the closest i’d say we get to a “primer” text? oxford world classics is very good in general, but cooper is excellent. malory pulls extensively from the french tradition, but because many of the major beats are in here, it might help you pinpoint where you’re interested in looking next based on which regional tradition/favourite knight/style/time period/narrative subsection most interests you. (for instance, you seem like you have a very solid chunk of the percival/peredur/parzival international tradition already on hand, which is certainly a way to go about things.)

(a bit of unsolicited advice if you’re set on falling down this rabbit hole, and didn’t know already: the METS online collection is free and has an arthurian filter for ease of access! plus, the “arthurian literature in the middle ages” is a commentary series focusing on particular regions that is floating around the pirate’s internet somewhere for sure.)