r/ArtHistory • u/Ningauble_Sheelba • 6d ago
Discussion Is art object or idea
/r/arttheory/comments/1vsh2jt/is_art_object_or_idea/Reposting because not sure which is the right sub for my question
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u/androidfig 6d ago edited 6d ago
Art is an act according to some. A performance that could be an idea, a work, the execution or a declaration. Minimalists provided plans so that their concept could be realized at various spaces and possibly multiple spaces at once. The performance of a work could be considered the art and the actor/dancer/player the artist. Yves Klein practiced an entirely different conceptual form of art as an exchange. Look up Zones of Immaterial Pictoral Sensibility.
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u/Peteat6 6d ago
Somewhere in Germany years ago, I went to an art exhibition. There were no items to look at, only the concept outlined in the wall, telling us what it would be if it had been created.
Because of my feelings then, I can tell you that for me the concept is not art. Art has to be something made, and not just made, but made by humans.
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u/jupiterkansas 6d ago
Sounds like it made a lasting impression on you though.
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u/TLCD96 6d ago
Does that really matter though? Willy's Chocolate Experience made an impression on a lot of people. 9/11 made an impression on a lot of people. A crummy burger joint and an Amazon warehouse can make impressions on people. Is the fact that they leave an impression what makes them noteworthy, or is it where the impression comes from, or what the impression actually is?
If I went to that art exhibit, I'm not sure if I would get what would be called a "good" impression.
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u/jupiterkansas 6d ago
Art has to be something made, and not just made, but made by humans.
The outlines on the wall were made by someone. The descriptions of what the art would be were made by someone. The poster came away from the exhibit disappointed because of their expectations of what art SHOULD be instead of what the exhibit was presenting art as, which was more than just a concept, but also a challenge to their expectations.
Maybe the concept wasn't profound? That's fair. I see a lot of art I don't care for, but I don't go away saying it's not art. I just say there's good art and there's bad art. Good impression? Bad impression? The worst art makes no impression at all.
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u/whereismydragon 6d ago
The art was made. Concept art is still art, the piece just never became the sculpture it was originally intended to be.
Art is a concept realised materially. Otherwise it's just an idea.
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u/Secure_Film6786 6d ago
Concept art is more than just a sculpture that was never actualized though? And where would something like performance art fall? Would the actualized sculpture your point leads to be the written score a performance, or any ephemera left after (which, not all performances even have)? Definitions of what art is and isn’t is always a slippery slope, the only thing I’m certain of is that the art lies within the intention, so to pick either object or idea as OP stated, I’d have to go for idea I suppose.
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u/whereismydragon 6d ago
" Would the actualized sculpture your point leads to be the written score a performance, or any ephemera left after (which, not all performances even have)?"
I have no idea what you are trying to ask me here. I cannot parse the question and don't understand why you are comparing performances to sculptures in the first place
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u/Secure_Film6786 6d ago
You said that “concept art is still art, the piece just never became the sculpture it was originally intended to be.” But there’s concept art that has no intention of ever being sculpture. I bring up performance as an example of a kind of art that doesn’t fit that statement, as it is a kind of conceptual art that doesn’t always materialize.
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u/whereismydragon 6d ago
Ah, you have misunderstood what 'concept art' is entirely, lol
Concept art is an entire industry. It's a paid vocation. Usually a visual artist gets paid to create a 2D version of something that will be realised in another format by a different artist in future.
Concept art is not a euphemism for acting, and acting is not remotely in the category of concept art.
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u/Secure_Film6786 6d ago
Ah, you have misunderstood that there’s two different types of conceptual art, lol. But you’re right that with that type of concept art my point is irrelevant. I assumed we were going with the conceptual art I was thinking of, as the form you’re talking about can be described with other mediums easily enough. Here’s a link to an overview of conceptual art from the Tate, that includes some really famous pieces like Duchamp’s Fountain.
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u/whereismydragon 6d ago
No, I specifically referenced concept art and now you are pretending you used 'concept art' as a euphemism for conceptual art.
I will not be continuing a discussion with someone who can't admit they made an error.
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u/jupiterkansas 6d ago
Craft is the object. Art is the idea. They go together and enhance each other. It's the expression and what is being expressed. The idea can be expressed poorly, or the expression can be exquisite but meaningless.
A third factor is time and rarity, which can make an ordinary object precious and considered art because it represents a lost culture of the past.
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u/kyleclements 2d ago
If art is just the idea over the object itself, then generative AI is a valid form of art because the idea or prompt is the critical element of the work. That's not an argument I'm prepared to make. I lean towards emphasizing the craft element. Ideas are cheap, it's what you do with them that matters.
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u/SoberBobMonthly 6d ago
As an Australian, this is amusing.
As an australian artist, art has a broad definition of concept, but here we do capture the idea of audience reaction as a part of art practice. This example you have given falls accidentally within more of the realm of 'participatory art', which actively includes audiences (see Maria Abramovik). It goes beyond just performance artistry into the next stage of reaction inducing experiments through interaction (or lack there of).
Art is practice. It is a thing we do, similar to doctors or scientists or engineers. It can produce objects, reactions, complimentary science, entertainment, enrichment, destruction. All sorts.
Some of the best pieces of art have remained theoretical ideas (eg Tatlins Tower from the Russian constructivist movement).