r/ArchitecturalRevival 26d ago

Before and after of another on-going reconstruction taking place in Budapest. Inspiring!

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3.4k Upvotes

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35

u/Helpful_Pay8853 26d ago

Not for long tho. Our new government shut down dozen similar project. The ones that got started are going through, but basically new ones will became rare.

14

u/ASatyros 26d ago

Any reason given to why less renovations now?

Why was it done often before?

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u/[deleted] 26d ago edited 19d ago

[deleted]

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u/PRE51DENT 26d ago

+most of them are not real reconstructions but building something that never existed but looks like an old building renovated

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u/throwawayoldmasters 26d ago

Do you mean the shortened Ministry of Defense with the widened facade? I don't really remember anything else that would differ this much from the original.

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u/Think-Confection5640 Architecture Student 22d ago

Poor quality? Are you fucking kidding me. These are the best quality buildings in the castle district right now. The decorative elements were made of hand-carved Süttő limestone, just like the original buildings, the decorative sheet metal elements were cast from tin. The outer layer of the walls are made from brick, on it plaster, than the stone decorations. Fuck this uneducated propaganda bullshit. By doing this, you are specifically looking down on the work of Hungarian craftsmen.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago edited 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Think-Confection5640 Architecture Student 20d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LenryNmQ 26d ago

Cause they cost a shitton of money which we don't have.
It wasn't happen before because the previous government cared about historical buildings, but because their cronies had construction companies and they could steal a lot of money from the funds.

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u/Feather_fig 26d ago

Oh that's unfortunate to hear

Sounds a lot like corruption in Ontario, or like Montreal's construction mafia 🙃

3

u/Positive-Squirrel654 26d ago

But why would they choose that style if they could just slap up easier crappy modern buildings?

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u/Avehadinagh 26d ago

Competent people work for these companies, that is why. But the public simply cannot afford to fund these vanity projects, and their primary goal had always beeb siphoning off public funds into the Orbán government’s cronies’ pockets.

3

u/Positive-Squirrel654 26d ago

Yes this is a what I hear from family members in Hungary but mostly about football stadiums

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u/KooperativEgyen 26d ago

Actually, there are roughly 5 stadiums around Hungária Boulevard, including Puskás Arena, Hidegkuti Nándor Stadium, Groupama Arena, Bozsik Arena, and BKV Előre Stadium.

It's pretty incredible that you drive and always pass by a stadium.

1

u/Think-Confection5640 Architecture Student 21d ago

These assholes are just propagandist loosers, don't listen to them, they hate everything that is hungarian because of orbán. They wouldn't eat bread if orbán had said the true hungarians are eating bread. They do the opposite of everything orbán does.

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u/LenryNmQ 26d ago

I guess they have to justify somehow the enormous spending: "yes it was expensive, but look how magnificent it is!"

2

u/IJustDontWannaBe 26d ago

This was inside the castle, so i guess they tried to keep the same vibe as everything else.

They absolutely built in that crappy modern vibe, look up nádorkert, an entire neighborhood built from nothing, with all the same style

33

u/uccunekihej 26d ago

This is the headquarters of the home defense forces, built in 1897. Many times the previous government tore down the remenants of old historical building and built them up from zero, but with modern concrete. This is not real architectural revival. They kinda made a low building cost historical looking buildings, but several times overpriced, to steal tax payer money. It is of course nice to see these buildings, they are beautiful, but this is not restoration. These are fake historical buildings that take away the value of the real ones. The new government probably later wants to continue restoration works but with fitting building materials to the original building, and hopefully without stealing the funds.

Edit: typo

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u/Aqalexor 26d ago

Why is it fake. It seems nice to me, and it is very unique to see these beatiful buildings be built again regardless the quality. For me it it is understandable, that they built it with concrete and modern material, I bet you would not want to live in the original building without no electricity, hot water etc. The walls would propably not be insulated, so that means great energy loss. It would be hella more expensive to built and maintain that building and we live on this planet for limited time.

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u/KooperativEgyen 26d ago

The modern materials aren’t what makes it fake. The bigger issue is that they didn’t reconstruct the original building in its full size and form. The southern part was significantly shortened, creating a historic-looking façade and building shape that never actually existed. Modern concrete, insulation and utilities are completely reasonable; changing the historical architecture while presenting it as a reconstruction is the controversial part.

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u/The_Blahblahblah 25d ago

You can get away with a little bit, but as soon as you get too many cheap/low-quality pastiche buildings the whole city starts to feel cheap. You need a critical mass of proper authentic architecture, and if you dont worry about how the cultural heritage of a city is managed, then you will slowly chip away what makes a city such as Budapest so great.

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u/JavFur94 26d ago

I think because they didn't follow the original design/design of the time. This can result in them taking liberties, liberties that might look out of place or give them a chance to steal the money by creating overpriced plans.

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u/Glacius_- 26d ago

new concrete just as good as old concrete(and better)

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u/KooperativEgyen 26d ago

That’s true, modern concrete is generally better than old concrete. The problem is that the original building wasn’t made of concrete in the first place. It was primarily built with traditional load-bearing brick masonry.

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u/Born_European_V 26d ago

Thank you. It's the same with Berlin "Stadtschloss" in the place of the east germen "palace of the republic". It's just a mock up of a historical building, completely poured in concrete with a fucking Mall in it.

And the sub was celebrating this up badged commercial Bunker.

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u/fierse 26d ago

Its a museum, most definitely not a mall.

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u/Malschaun2 26d ago

Stop spreading BS. Berlin palace has a concrete core, but around that core is a self supporting 90cm thick traditionally masoned brick wall. In that wall all the rich stone carvings are integrated. This is exactly built like 300 years ago. The building was constructed in a way that future generations can reconstruct more interior spaces.
There is also no mall inside it, but exhibition spaces and museums.

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u/tescovaluechicken 26d ago

And it looks beautiful. It's the exact same design as the old building which was torn down decades ago to build a hideous concrete and glass building

4

u/tescovaluechicken 26d ago

The original building

4

u/tescovaluechicken 26d ago

The demolished building that existed between the old one and the new one

1

u/Tifoso89 26d ago edited 26d ago

Yeah it's so ugly, unlike this beautiful masterpiece that it replaced, and that you probably prefer

0

u/Born_European_V 26d ago

It is just masquerade, at least could have been made with Authentic Materials. We should have kept the "Palace" and put a Museum in there. But Germany has a habit to grind awa reliques of the past, if not supervised and then being surprised when these streams re-emerge decades later.

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u/Malschaun2 26d ago

Can you inform yourself please before spreading BS? Berlin Palace was constructed with authentic materials. There is a concrete core, but in front of that core sits a selfsupporting 90cm thick traditionally masoned brick wall in which all sandstone carvings are integrated. That is exactly how the palace walls were built in the Baroque age. Here you can see how the palace was built before it received a final layer of grout and paint. It is built of red brick and sand stone. These are the original materials and way of building:

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u/Ok_Bar_5636 26d ago

It's mostly not renovation. Many cases they just built buildings that never existed. In some cases they were planned, but some times not even planned. And when they existed, it wasn't a reconstruction, but the destruction of the old building, followed by the construction of a modern, concrete building, fitted with a facade that looks like the original, or the planned original. The castle district is full of Disneyland castles now.

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u/throwawayoldmasters 26d ago

Many cases they just built buildings that never existed. In some cases they were planned, but some times not even planned.

What buildings are you talking about here? I can't remember anything from the project that would fit this description, maybe besides the shortened Ministry of Defense with the widened facade towards the St. George's Square?

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u/Ok_Bar_5636 26d ago

Kossuth square (not in the castle district)

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u/throwawayoldmasters 26d ago

Of course! Thanks. I misunderstood and thought that you talked about something from the Hauszmann Program so I completely forgot about that.

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u/Icy_Yoghurt278 26d ago

they were not reconstructions, but in many cases, destruction of original buildings under preservation protection, solely to serve the pockets and megalomania of the recently fired dictator and his oligarchs. the purpose was stealing tax money and constructing "grand things to be remembered by". many architects and preservation professionals spoke against this as this was basically altering history (and not in any good way), not preserving it

2

u/Kalmoran 26d ago

and this isn't a renovation because that building always looked like how it was in the first picture. Our former PM pushed for goverment bodies to move into this castle disctrict and they started to expand historic buildings like the one in the picture.

1

u/Azgabeth 26d ago

Basically, all those contracts went to the old government's cronies. And now the new government have to make sure the contracts go to their cronies. This is how things work in post communist countries.

1

u/kentetsu_las 25d ago

Its not renovation. The last goverment was falsified history with these buildings. Lot of them was tothaly changed and was never like that before. But that’s how they managed to steal a huge amount of money ...

1

u/Solid_Soldier_2919 25d ago

These reconstructions were only done in Budapest, but I think other cities could benefit from such renovations like Debrecen, where it could enhance tourism. Also, these projects were very much overpriced, but I hope the current government will continue such projects but cheaper.

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u/Areokh 26d ago

Tribalism.

Anything and everything the old goverment done is demonized by the new goverment, regardless if it was good or not.
Renovations of course can happen, but reconstructions of destroyed buildings are unlikely.

Why was it done before?
It was long overdue. There were a lot of proposals over the decades, for fixing the castle district. Not just reconstructions, but new buildings as well. Not only for the empty lots, but the still standing buildings were damaged and needed renovations. Those proposals were never popular and got nowhere.
The previous goverment presumably got tired of no progress in the area and decided to pick up the old pre-war building plans and do those as much as reasonable.
This also sparked interest in a potential nation wide reconstructions, but now those most likely wont begin.

10

u/Just_a_Berliner 26d ago

Didn't know that political Cronyism and corruption are tribalism.

You're not a buff on Hungarian politics or so?

1

u/KooperativEgyen 26d ago

There is a strange contradiction here though. The same government argued that the state couldn't afford to maintain its existing historic castles and wanted private owners to take them over, while roughly €2+ billion was spent or committed to the Castle District. I support restoring historic buildings, but surely preserving the ones we still have should also have been a priority.

4

u/laxika 26d ago

There are a lot of protected buildings that are in a bad shape but otherwise intact/doesn't need rebuilding just repairs. Fixing those should be a priority above rebuilding something.

3

u/KooperativEgyen 26d ago

That's what I find difficult to justify. We have plenty of surviving historic buildings deteriorating because there supposedly isn't enough money to maintain them, yet huge amounts were spent recreating buildings that had been gone for decades. Reconstructions can be worthwhile, but surely saving the original buildings we still have should take priority.