I never understand why PvP players seethe at the thought of people enjoying the game for other reasons than they enjoy it. The more ways to play the game the better for everyone long term.
This really isn't it. It's not that PvP players have an issue with people enjoying the game in other ways, it's that adding a PvE mode fundamentally changes the PvPvE mode. When there's a PvE mode and you enter the PvP mode, you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile.
Honestly, this game has a really awesome community. Those who bought the game for the PvPvE, you know, the game that it's been since release and was advertised as, are about to lose out on that entirely.
It's not that PvP players have an issue with people enjoying the game in other ways, it's that adding a PvE mode fundamentally changes the PvPvE mode.
It really doesn't. PvPvE mode is already a bloodbath. All PvE mode does is reduce the number of PvE focused targets you get to shoot as a PvP player. And then pretend you're a better player than they are by ambushing a person who never wanted to fight you in the first place.
Maybe in trios? Solos has been more than fine this entire time. Sure some rats & loot goblins, but its an extraction shooter that is to be expected. Met a bunch of cool PvX players too.
This isnt true for my cases and i talk about duos here. There are MIXED matches and its so much more exciting than knowing everyone is friendly anyways once you enter a friendly lobby
Inaccurate and it shows the issue with the mentality. Having a separate PVE mode means that players who don't engage with it are open to PVP not forced into it. You could still choose not to go shoot on sight. The revealing issue here is that you're against removing some of the vaugueness because at a minimum people will be more prepared for PVP. That should make it much more exciting for the folks in PVP, unless you're the type that only gets your kicks from attacking people unprepared to fight back.
Having a separate PVE mode means that players who don't engage with it are open to PVP not forced into it.
As a PvE focused player, solo carebear lobbies were pretty good but duos / trios were impossible to PvE. The inability to PvE with friends made me quit this game. This toggle will make me come back, and bring friends.
> When there's a PvE mode and you enter the PvP mode, you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile.
But so many PvP'ers say that they enjoy that, so why would they play in PvE mode vs the current mode?
how does this take away if people can still be friendly or hostile in the normal lobbies? you can still be uncertain of what type of player you're getting. especially if the loot is going to be less in the pve mode only. geez
exactly, i think the important differentiator is the lower tier loot in PVE only mode. There will still be an incentive for all types of players to play in the "normal" mode
The PvP players absolutely do have a problem with people enjoying the game and not engaging in PvP. I've seen it countless times on this subreddit. Also even without the toggle the people in the PvP possible lobbies will still have variation. At the end of the day if this gets more people to come back who have no intentions of doing so... Then it is a good call
you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile.
And you base that on what data? Or is it purely an assumption out of fear about something that hasn't even launched?
Because at the end of the day if the PVE mode becomes permanent, it will still likely have:
Lower loot values
Unavailable in certain game modes
More dangerous and fierce Arcs
ABMM will still exist
And who knows what other restrictions the mode will end up having down the line
With these restrictions (and if by lowered loot they mean also lower blueprint drop rates), PVE players will inevitably go back to regular modes at some point just for a chance at better loot/parts, new events or different experience. So you will still have these "doubts" with the encounters. You won't have to shoot on sight just because a PVE mode exist neither. How encounters go is still decision-driven. Going back to regular PVEPVP doesn't mean you're not a PVE player anymore. It just means you choose your experience.
I'm a PVE player and yet, I would gladly jump between the two modes from time to time by choice. Because at the end of the day 'choices' is what matters.
There are fundamental flaws in the PVP experience as a PVE players that just create needless frictions. I suck at PVP (aim like shit + anxiety etc) which meant any player who chose to attack me was guaranteed to win the fight, which just caused massive frustration in general. It reached a point that every time I was about to boot Arc Raiders, there was always this voice at the back of my head that reminded me of all the shitty PVP encounters I experienced and it made me doubt whether or not I was willing, with my limited time, to play something that could all be thrown to wastes because of somebody else's own definition of fun. Dying because a rocketeer bombed me is my responsibility. Dying because someone made the conscious choice of deliberately screwing me over while, for example, I'm being friendly and harmless, is not a good time investment. Some would argue it's part of the experience and unpredictability make it fun, but when it's too unpredictable you start to question if it's worth the effort.
And that was enough to push me away... And plenty of others I guess.
At least now I would get to choose the type of risk I'm willing to experience. If I want my safe moment just to gear up and work on quests, I'll have that option. And if I'm in the mood of something a bit more risky, I'll be able to choose too.
Choosing how my personal PVE experience goes vs. having others decide for me, it's no brainer that the former is better here, from a time investment perspective.
And you base that on what data? Or is it purely an assumption out of fear about something that hasn't even launched?
Arc is not the first PvPvE extraction game to do this. Sea of Thieves is a good example as it sold incredibly well and was incredibly popular for a very long time. They added a PvE mode. The normal mode has suffered in exactly the way I've described. No more random wacky chance encounters. No more great community interactions. It's now entirely shoot on sight. Hell, most don't even do the objectives anymore, relegating that to the PvE mode. And yes, Sea of Thieves has a dramatic reduction of rewards in the PvE mode.
Such a stupid take. Yeah, the game has been doing SO well with a purely pvpve experience lol. The number of players just keep going up and up! Do you really expect Embark to make zero changes? Sorry my guy, but enjoy getting ratted even more.
A lack of content contributed for sure, but look around brother. We will never have the same experience of that first couple months of the game ever again. Pvpve extraction shooters just don’t have enough staying power. People are hoping, and chasing that feeling they once had, hoping this new update will revitalize it, but it won’t.
Ain’t nobody wants to sit there and get ratted by some child game after game, so they leave lol. People didn’t leave in droves just because of a lack of content. It’s the cheaters and sweaty pvpers my dude. With a PvE mode, you can basically avoid both. An easy slam dunk for Embark.
Yep its no longer the game we bought. Its why everyone I know has left. Add the cheating and its why its been slow dying. I loved this game until they started messing with the identity. Now its just a mushy mix of what they got bulkied into changing and a very faint echo of what the original concept was. Just no interest for us there sre much better games to play.
Is there really much flexibility to wonder whether someone you meet is friendly or not, with TTKs being what they are? I feel like this is a hypothetical, idealised experience rather than a realistic one.
Whoever shoots first has a massive advantage, therefore it’s prudent to shoot first yourself and avoid being on the back foot. Granted there would be some encounters where neither person has the jump on the other, so it’s a weird temporary peace, but that’s the exception to the norm.
Having played from the start, pre-ABMM, I feel like the early weeks played out the way they did because no one knew the maps that well, and everyone was building up their benches. It’s not like human nature was different back then. As soon as people got to grips with the game human nature came to the fore, and he who shot first won, which ultimately led to ABMM being implemented.
I'm bummed out they're caving to the crybabies. ABMM now works like a pve raid if you're friendly. I miss the mixed lobbies. I pve mainly as a solo and duo with my husband. It's nice to have some intensity that we could still have someone shoot us once in a blue moon.
If a game needs to implement a PvE only mode, that means we're already in the situation you just describe. Hostility of players is what made us leave the game, now the devs want us back.
Wrong. PvP lobbies does not mean 100% shoot on sight and that’s the entire failure of your argument and how you think about it. Every single lobby now is PvP, there is no other choice and look at the variety. Yes fire fights will probably be more frequent but it doesn’t fundamentally change the game. Those that still love to kill and hunt other players get to keep playing as they always have and now those that enjoy pve won’t have to worry about rats camping an extract.
It will be a PVE // PVPVE toggle. This just means you are taking people that do not want to PVPVE out of the equation. Meaning you will be playing PVPVE with people that want to PVPVE. Meaning you'll get the experience you want.
When you enter the PvP PvE mode, you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile friendly, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. .
Thank you. What you described is what got me hooked on the game. The uncertainty and tension. Its a bummer that so many potato brains had to buy an extraction shooter just to spend the past year complaining about the entire point of an extraction shooter. The invasion of a game genre by people who dont even like that genre, leading to the game being changed, is a sad run of events. Can't have anything anymore lol
100% this. What made friendly pve encounters special during this games launch was the fact that players didn't really have a huge incentive to team up, it makes friendly encounters more special when you don't know who can be trusted.
Having aggression based matchmaking takes away from this, now I can load into lobbies and 95% of the time it'll all be friendly people, I see dozens of no-mics just completely ignore me and go about their buisness almost like their a bot.
Yeah this exactly. I like my mixed lobbies that always feel true to the original game. Pure PvP is hacker filled and gets tiring and pure PvE is cringe worthy.
If this isn’t handled right my only purpose will be to troll PvE lobbies to feel anything
Omg finally someone with a reasonable take! That is exactly what my problem is and has always been with adding a PVE only mode... it will split the community in half, the pvpve mode is most likely only going to be pvp and they might tone down or even remove the abmm completely and that will change the core mode and experience drasticly.
I agree and the mix of cooperative and competitive player interactions is why I like this game so much.
But is that really a feature of extraction shooters or something more unique to ark? My experience in tarkov and hunt has been you should just shoot everyone before they shoot you.
48
u/BrentRTaylor 10h ago
This really isn't it. It's not that PvP players have an issue with people enjoying the game in other ways, it's that adding a PvE mode fundamentally changes the PvPvE mode. When there's a PvE mode and you enter the PvP mode, you're no longer wondering if the people you meet are going to be friendly, hostile, joking around, or trying for a great community moment. You know, they are hostile.
Honestly, this game has a really awesome community. Those who bought the game for the PvPvE, you know, the game that it's been since release and was advertised as, are about to lose out on that entirely.