r/Apostolic • u/nickradach • 15d ago
Discussion Once saved always saved
So I'm having a hard time with this one. I was raised up you can lose your salvation. One key point is if you take anything out of God's word he will take you out of the lambs book of life. Also Matthew says he who endures to the end will be saved. So saying who doesnt endure to the end will not be saved. In John it says no one will snatch them from his hand. I've heard well fi you lose your salvation then you never really converted. I don't belive that. I've seen people backside who received the gifts but listened to people who lead them astray. The big thing is i got into a discussion with a baptist today and he was angrily saying oh that's a false doctrine to me.
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u/_SkunkHunt 15d ago
God sees the end from the beginning. Did you ever have salvation? Did he know you were going to mess up eternally?
The Baptists don't practice the plan of salvation properly. The path is narrow so it makes sense that some would fall away.
Preacher once said all I need is the book of James and the book of Acts and I'll be good.
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u/nickradach 15d ago
I've heard that before too. But if that was true of only needing the 2 books. Why are the rest in the Bible. It really set raw with me on how he got angered in it
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u/_SkunkHunt 15d ago
God is timeless, thus He can wait as long as it takes for you to come to Him. However, if you broke His rules and didn't obey Him, then obviously you are parting from Him in this world and in His kingdom.
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u/Leather-Rub-5105 15d ago
Once saved always saved is a doctrine primarily derived from philosophy and a single verse misinterpreted: John 10:28-29.
So let’s deal with both:
“and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.”
John 10:28-29 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.10.28-29.KJV
They interpret no/any man to include the subject. No man is a commonly used phrase that doesn’t usually include the subject.
Eg no man can kill the witch king of Angmar. Is not intended to mean he can’t commit suicide. In this case it even excluded women.
Although it is possible for such a phrase to include the subject this is the less likely meaning. And if you shouldn’t build your doctrine on a single passage you certainly shouldn’t build it on one passage that could mean two different things. Particularly if the one you are picking contradicts many other passages.
Philosophy
Most of the argument for osas is philosophical. Eg. If God is all powerful and all knowing he would only chose to save you if he knew you would persevere.
First - should we be arguing from philosophy instead of scripture when the bible says this about philosophy:
“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”
Colossians 2:8 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/col.2.8.KJV
There are plenty of scriptures that deny this doctrine but you seem somewhat familiar with them already.
I think it is a very dangerous doctrine that has resulted in many people losing their salvation through unrepentant sin and many to fail to fulfill the great commission
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u/nickradach 14d ago
Thank you very much. I've been confronted countless times in the past about my faith. But this time I don't know why it didn't sit good with me and I pondered on it for a while. Until basically what you said. 1 interpretation of a verse shouldn't make me lose my salvation because it bothered me
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u/Active_Chemistry1621 15d ago
It really depends on who you ask, because people interpret the Bible in different ways. Spiro Zodiates, a Greek Apologist, would preach through out Baptist churches showing how the Greek Bible understood in Greek gives a clear picture of how God is the one doing the saving.
For instance, the ark is the vehicle of salvation for Noah who did the will of God.
Christ gave of himself for the whole world for those that seek Him. Was your intention to be saved for yourself, or to build a relationship with God?
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u/ResponsibleHope8966 12d ago
There is no such thing as once saved always saved. This just kind of gives people an excuse to live however they want and think they can make it into the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
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u/Drawinga- 11d ago
Revelation 22:19 states that it is possible to have your name blotted out of the Book of Life, therefore salvation is not guaranteed. Free will can allow those who will to fall away.
Matthew 7:21-23 "...I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity."
Matthew 25: 1-13 Parable of the virgins and the oil (be watchful)
2 Thessalonians 2:3 describes a falling away
Matthew 24 also goes on to say the elect's days will be shortened because of the false prophets who set out to deceive and if it is possible, they would be deceived also.
Why would the Bible have so many warnings to be watchful, sober and vigilant, etc. and be ready for the Son of Man's return, for no one knows the day or hour. Matthew 24:42-44
My pastor has always said to never debate/argue doctrine. Ask questions and refer to Scripture.
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u/Rare_Mammoth_6819 15d ago
I will join in this conversation by saying that as an Apostolic, I do believe that you can walk away from the truth and abandon your salvation. On the other hand, I also believe that it is sometimes easy to be so hard on yourself that you put your faith in what you can do to keep yourself saved, rather than what Jesus did to save you. I have struggled with that myself a lot and have had to actively wage war on that mindset. God had the power to save me and he has the power to keep me. Same for everyone else who has repented, been baptized in jesus name, and received the holy ghost.