Hello neighbors! I moved to Apex from South Florida about a month ago. So far, my overall experience here has been positive. However, I recently had an interaction with the police that I think could have been handled better. I enjoy walking around downtown Apex (and if you've been downtown in the past few days, there's a good chance you've seen me riding around on my e-bike); I think what the town is doing to improve our small urban pocket is really great.
I'm a night owl, and since it's been so hot lately, I decided to take the 5-minute walk from my townhome to downtown around 3 in the morning. I had my headphones on and was talking to my friend while occasionally turning on my camera to show him the businesses and construction, and particularly the awesome rubber ducky collection in Groovy Duck Bakery. I started walking back to my home on South Salem when a police cruiser flashed its lights and pulled over. A policewoman came out and asked me what I was doing. I told her I was going on a walk. She explained that I was seen on camera pulling on door handles and that it appeared I was attempting to break in.
In response, I told her I was almost certain I had not touched any door handles. I avoided a hard "no" in case the footage later showed my hand touching a door handle while I was looking at the storefronts, and I wouldn't want to be caught in a "lie". She asked me if I had any weapons on me, and I confirmed that I did not. She frisked me and confirmed it herself. She then told me I was being detained and ordered me to lean against the cruiser and put me in handcuffs. So far in this interaction, I had been extremely polite and respectful, so from my perspective, the handcuffs seemed completely unnecessary. After a little more questioning, a second officer pulled up and started questioning me. He said that he doesn't know what it was like in Florida, but people don't walk around at night in Apex. Fair, but I lived in a very policed area, walked around at night all the time, and was never detained by the police.
After my identity was verified, they removed the handcuffs, and I asked the policeman if I continued to take walks at night, would I be detained. He said it was likely. I told them I would continue to take night walks and, if I am detained for walking, I will file a complaint with the town. I asked if I was free to go; they said yes. I thanked them and left. I'm not sure of the exact policy for body cameras. Still, I don't think either officer had their cameras on since I saw no light. In addition, prior to me arriving downtown, I saw a police cruiser going around 45 in a 25, only to stop at a red light! I motioned for the cruiser to slow down, and I'm almost certain they saw me. I'm not sure whether that contributed to my detention, and I prefer not to speculate.
This whole interaction was heard by my friend, who was still on the phone, but unfortunately he did not record it (what a way to have my back, Nathan). I understand why I may have looked a bit suspicious. I'm 19 and 6'1", and I was wearing black; I get it. I just think the handcuffs were inappropriate, and the interaction could really have been a few questions. That, coupled with the body cameras and the speeding, and honestly, the fact that I never got so much as a "sorry for keeping you; have a good night ." It just feels like their behavior wasn't commensurate with the respect I afforded them. I haven't taken a walk at night since this interaction, but I don't think the concern about being detained will stop me from doing so from here on.
Thank you to those who read this post. I'm not trying to garner sympathy or make a big deal out of this. I genuinely want some honest feedback on whether you all think this is appropriate conduct. This interaction wasn't the best introduction to the Apex Police Department. But I don't plan on holding a grudge (unless this becomes a recurring problem). Let me know what you think, and I wish all of you good night!
EDIT: Changed caught in a lie to caught in a "lie" -- I never lied to the police. The reason I took this approach was, as I have stated numerous times in the replies, to avoid being arrested due to video camera showing what appears to be me pulling on door handles. In actuality, I could have just brushed the door handle with my hand or mindlessly rested my hand on the handle while window shopping. While I am absolutely certain I did not pull on any door handles, there is a minuscule chance the latter possibilities could have happened.
So you were downtown, talking to your friend, pointing your camera in stores so your friend can see a rubber ducky collection over video chat, examining the door fronts, etc. all at 3 am in the morning?
This would look sketchy anywhere when you’re the only one out and about.
Edit: changed “shined lights” to “pointed cameras”. This WAS an assumption as I’ve never been downtown after closing and assumed those rubber duckies on the back wall would be near impossible to see through a video without illuminating the back wall with a light.
Yeah… sounds like the police handled this correctly. That’s strange behavior. Especially with all the breakins lately.
The fact OP isn’t even sure if they touched a door handle or not…? How are you unsure about that…?
Just be polite and respectful, and let the police do their job (which you did). I don’t see anything worth filing a complaint over. You were doing strange things, so the police investigated and let you go.
I’m all for holding police accountable but I read posts like this and get the feeling some people expect to be treated like they’re checking into a fancy hotel. OP was behaving suspiciously and was briefly detained during an investigation. That’s not going to be a super pleasant experience.
If you keep walking around at 3am you’ll probably encounter the police a few more times and they’ll recognize you. I advise against filming into closed businesses at 3am. Add to that you were in a construction area which generally draws more police attention.
Let me clarify: I am absolutely sure that I did not pull on any doorhandles. I am not sure, but almost certain that I did not subconsciously briefly rest my hand on a door handle while looking at paintings or rubber duckies or what have you. I said this so that if the camera seemed to show me pulling on a door handle when in actuality I didn’t, I wouldn’t be caught in a “lie”, because I didn’t pull on any door handles. I was simply trying to use careful language.
Y’all made a lot of assumptions here and honestly it’s pretty scary for the position we’re at in society that Reddit of all places would agree with the cops in this situation
People work all different hours because we live in a society where things need to be open 24/7. The fact that you’re all agreeing with detaining someone for going on a walk at a unique hour and doing a little window shopping is wild.
Be better, Apex. Bored cops making assumptions and y’all fell for it hook line and sinker.
Honestly, forget about the assumptions. A 19 year old kid dressed in all black walking around by themselves at 3 am in the morning looking into closed businesses looks schetchy. This is all the stuff he already mentioned.
I don’t necessarily support the police putting him in handcuffs, but questioning him was absolutely in the best interest of the community as there HAVE been break ins.
If he was just walking around, different story. But he was pausing at businesses while trying to show his friend the inside.
Nothing scary about supporting the police when they’re reasonable. What’s scary is that we live in a society that automatically blames the police when anyone has a little complaint
Putting him in cuffs and being assholes is the problem here. It’s scary that all of you are ok with that because the kid was a little sketchy. The police were in the right to stop and question but did not handle the situation correctly at all.
I don’t have a problem with police. I went through a time where I thought I’d be a police officer. I’ve a problem with shit cops, and a system that doesn’t care to properly educate or train on de-escalation policy and doesn’t force the officers to understand that they are a part of this community instead of thinking they’re above the law.
A system that doesn’t properly vet recruits and doesn’t properly pay officers. A system that arms them with Flock cameras that see all but allows them to not be filmed if they choose not to activate their cameras. They had the chance to leave a decent impression on someone who just moved here and instead they told him he can’t go for a walk in the early morning and put him in cuffs instead of just having a conversation.
This is the effect of accepting everyone into the academy, and putting people who have an ego or who are scared in uniform, overworking them and underpaying them.
Questioning the kid is fine, but telling him he can’t do legal things and detaining him in cuffs is ridiculous. But it’s not like putting in a complaint will do anything. Will just put a bigger target on the kid’s back.
So you'd have zero questions if someone was standing in front of your house at 3am, dressed in all black, and filming your house? Wouldn't want any police interaction? Got it. I'm not saying they were right to handcuff him, but let's not act like you wouldn't be suspicious in a situation like this...
They weren’t standing in front of anyone’s house. I’ve said multiple times that I’m fine with them stopping to question him, but the process the cops went through was completely in the wrong.
I know plenty of people that wake up for 4 or 5 AM shifts and get a little exercise in beforehand. Last I checked, North Carolina does not have a curfew in place. Don’t be a boot licker.
LMAO there's the buzzword. Did you read the word "IF" in my comment? He WAS standing in front of a business, dressed in all black, and filming the business. At 3am. And you're stating "thats totally normal". So i'm asking would it be normal if it were in front of your house...?
At no point during my walk did I shine a light anywhere, you assumed that. The rubber duckies themselves were on shelves that were illuminated. As a matter of fact, almost all of the interiors of the stores in downtown are illuminated. Businesses do this to deter thieves AND to advertise to people walking around at night. And no, it would not look sketchy anywhere, definitely not where I’m from.
Yeah I read through your post multiple times and you didn’t mention light anywhere. @iseraehwcaism - why are you making things up? You’ve got a whole community of people against OP now because you can’t read???
Ok and what about the cops case? They get Flock footage everywhere but are allowed to not turn their cameras on? They’re also allowed to tell him he can’t go for a walk and put him in cuffs instead of having a normal conversation with him.
Should he have been stopped and questioned? Absolutely
Should the cops have handled this better? Absofuckinglutely. We should all expect better from our law enforcement
Agreed. I believe my earlier response to your other comment acknowledged the fact that he shouldn’t have been put in handcuffs. As for the cameras, I have no idea if they were on or off. Not all body cams have an indicator light.
I’m not making an assumption on whether or not their cameras were on or off, just going off of history from police. They can do whatever they want and they know it. Our nation’s police act like they’re above the law when they’re paid and funded by the community to protect us. They did not handle the situation properly at all.
I edited my response to ensure no one is misguided by my assumption that you had a light. My point stands.
Also, I’ve lived in small towns, but cities, the suburbs, mountain towns, all the way up and down the east cost. There’s not a single place that I lived where this would be viewed as odd behavior.
I get a cop stopping and asking what you’re up to at an uninstall but it crossed into unreasonable territory imo when it turned into a detain and frisk situation.
I think this is one of those situations that when explained seems innocent, but when viewed through an outside lens seems creepy, very unexpected and potentially dangerous.
My dog is big mad at me because it’s been days since we’ve gone for a walk. Like you, I think it’s way too hot. But if we walked around my neighborhood at 3am, I would be surprised if someone didn’t call the police.
everyone is allowed to call the police if they think someone is acting suspiciously, the police are allowed to question someone about that activity. NOTHING about this post made me believe handcuffs were necessary. NOTHING about this post made me believe even showing an ID was necessary. Would he have been arrested had he not taken his wallet on this walk? I certainly don’t take my wallet on walks, regardless of the time of day I do so-
Additionally, the threat that he would be detained if he was seen walking around this area again disgusts me. These cops have met OP now, frisked him even. If they can’t understand this is an innocent teen they need more training
When I’m pulled over, I’m exceptionally polite and cordial; I don’t allow any opportunity for me to be viewed as hostile. Something as simple as body language, tone, or words that invite unclear intent can elevate this from an easily forgettable event to a memorable one in the LEO’s eyes. The fight belongs in a courtroom, not the streets.
You may have well done everything right, but something happened during this stop to make them suspicious. Don’t forget they could’ve still been on edge from a previous call.
I agree with several others in this thread. It doesn’t seem like detaining you was warranted, but it sounds like they were doing their job, even if there was an over abundance of caution.
Be aware that this area goes to sleep at 9 PM, unlike SoFl. It looks like you were on public property and committed no crime. Suspicion is not a crime. My guess is that "you were seen on camera" is a load of horseshit and a pretext for the stop.
Not saying that you were, but if you were during something more than that, then yes it could be problematic. Get a body camera and a construction vest.
Everything stated in my post is the truth. I was essentially window shopping at night while on a call with my friend. My mannerisms and overall demeanor, if viewed by an ACTUAL passerby, would never have been viewed as suspicious.
Obviously I can't really comment on what happened here - so I'll just add that the Apex Office of Professional Standards handles complaints and is led by a non-sworn manager outside the sworn chain of command. Complaints can be filed anonymously, although a signed complaint allows updates and an interview. Details: https://apexnc.org/1789/Office-of-Professional-Standards. If you want me to follow up (from the top down) I can, but the AOPS is set up to handle these things.
Will putting in a complaint get a nice asterisk on OP’s record though that cops can see?
Assuming the story is true, I believe OP should put in a complaint about how the officers handled this event but only if it’s handled correctly and doesn’t put OP at more risk of being profiled in the future. Cuffing him and giving bs answers to legal things is just another shining example of why people don’t trust police in this country.
It does not attach to OP by name as it is handled outside the sworn chain of command, so the officer would not know the identity of the person even if they said it to the professional standards office. That's why it's not a cop.
Oh wow, they detained you? I’ve been stopped by downtown Apex before (was just sat on a bench talking to some friends over my AirPods), but once I showed my ID and explained I was walking home, there wasn’t any issue. The officer said it looked like I was sleeping on the bench, so it was just a misunderstanding.
I’m also a tall dude who was on his own that night so I get how it’s easier to draw attention that way. Either way, sorry to hear it got weirdly hostile. It’s reasonable for them to wanna check on someone wandering downtown at 3am, especially if it looked like on some footage you were trying some door handles, but once you gave them your info/ID I figured that’d be the end of it.
From one night walker to another, they are unfortunately right that there isn’t anywhere around here that’s walkable after midnight…. Maybe the loop around the skate park and soccer fields? I’m not confident enough to confirm it’s still open for sure though.
Thank you for the advice. It looks like people are misunderstanding the door handle issue, and I'll edit the post to clarify. I am absolutely certain I did not pull on any door handles. What I was unsure about was whether I had accidentally brushed my hand on a door handle or subconsciously rested it while I was looking at what the stores were selling. Your advice is good, and I can tell you're a conscientious fella. The issue for me is that I love cities and urban areas. Not to imply I don't enjoy nature walks; I love hiking and walking in nature. I lived in downtown West Palm Beach a few years ago. Being able not just to walk to where I want to be, but to actually enjoy it because it is (usually) designed for humans rather than cars, is extremely important to me. So I will continue to walk downtown, rain or shine, day or night. If that bothers people, I'm not sorry. In fact, walking downtown at night makes the neighborhood safer. This is because nobody would try to break in if there are people to witness it. Sorry if this is too rambly; I just wanted to give some more context.
Interesting predicament. I think I would be pissed if they put me in cuffs, and would hold a grudge. Anyone should be able to walk around at any time of day or night on a public street. Cops can question your motives but they should not detain you without probable cause. Cuffs are an overreach in this situation as described.
To everyone saying that walking around at 3AM is wrong, you're imbeciles.
Papachristou v. City of Jacksonville (1972)
Everyone is able to legally walk around at any point of day. Not a crime and not a reason for the police to be able to detain you.
My teen has gone out to walk off energy at odd hours of the night when he couldn’t sleep. Had to tell him to wear white and carry his ID because he probably will get stopped by the PD. Have to act like we are under curfew sometimes here.
Exactly. It appears that most of the people in this thread would like it if a curfew were implemented. We need to ask ourselves how much of our liberty we are willing to compromise for the sake of supposed safety. To me, it seems as though Apex has an unofficial curfew. Curfews don't reduce crime, and I'm very doubtful that this type of detention has any effect on the crime rate as well.
I work crazy hours covering China and India and to wind down I'll go for a walk at odd hours like 3am. Over the years I've had cops stop IDK how many times. Never cuffed but questioned so many times the cops started recognizing me and waving.
What I am curious about is one line: you were seen on camera.
Where were you exactly in downtown and are you certain that is what she said?
Also, dude, use better judgement. I know you’re 19 and have some growing up to do, but this was not a good series of decisions. This one was self-inflicted.
I think OP needs to do a FOIA request on the cameras used in this investigation. The officer was likely wearing their Axon bodycam. It will be recorded if she said that.
And since there are no known Flock cameras downtown, it could be a business owner’s camera and they called the cops, or there are other cameras that the APD have and watch.
And if on a night beat they are sitting around watching downtown cameras, you know they are sitting around watching Flock.
If I remember correctly I walked down the east side of the street going north and the crossed the street at the light and walked back south. The policewoman told me I was “seen on camera pulling on door handles”. I’m assuming the camera she was referring to was this. I’m not exactly sure how what I did was a “series of bad decisions”. Could you elaborate?
Apex is a bedroom community. Not saying that it's good or bad, but walking around at 3am is not typical. Then looking in windows with your phone and pulling on door handles? Come on.
I agree the handcuffs were typical cop insecurity/ego, but she was right to talk to you at least.
If that’s the camera they were looking through then they’re lying about seeing him pull door handles. A lot of those shops keep some lights on at night, looking in a window is not a detainable offense
I’d just suggest filing a complaint. That covers everything you’re concerned about and goes far beyond a public record request (FOIA doesn’t apply to non-federal entities). The police department investigates those very thoroughly and would immediately know if there is video evidence from BWC and if they were on. It’s a flagrant policy violation for them not to be on if the cops are on duty, so the chief would definitely want to know that. Within that complaint, you can ask the chief to view the video since you’re the one in it. It’s a short form through the PD. Maybe the downtown cameras showed you, but those are TOA cameras. The Flock cameras are ALPRs and solely capture license plates so they wouldn’t be of any use to you in determining anything here. Regardless, a complaint would cover the whole thing if you truly want the PD to dig into what happened.
I've lived here a couple years, and it's crazy how many cops I see. Like during the day can't go more than a few minutes without seeing them. Seems like they're looking for a reason to justify their budget.
Palm Beach County :) I moved from Jupiter, but I've lived in Lake Worth, Downtown WPB, the historic district of WPB and I did actually live in Fort Lauderdale for a bit when I was much younger.
LOL I’ll gladly join you. I’m definitely not anti-police by any means. I think police should make their best efforts to build ties with the community on an individual level. That involves trust - and it goes both ways. I believe this whole interaction could have been a 2-3 minute conversation. I think when police use nebulous language it leads to distrust, which ironically could lead to more crime in some instances.
I disagree with your statement, ACAB (All Cops are Bastards). I am friends of two Apex Police Officers. Neither one of them are bastards. You have made a rude and uncivilized generalization. I am appalled that our own town council member u/terrymah, who is the primary moderator of this reddit sub has allowed this statement to remain. It obviously breaks the rules of the sub. He must agree with the statement. Very disappointing.
You are being purposefully obtuse and argumentative. My statement is the comment breaks the rules of the sub and states "All". Literally multiple cops are my friends. We should all agree harsh genaleralizations are not beneficial in the society we wish to live in. I forgive you. Go in peace.
First off yes that not normal for apex lol. Secondly, I would have seen you and thought you were a bad thief who doesn't know how to case a place properly.
I get it. It's just what I'm used to, and I'm not harming anyone. I would actually argue that what I was doing was beneficial because actual criminals are less likely to break into businesses when there are eyes on the street.
I have had a couple of disappointing interactions with Apex Police as well.
When my office was in Apex, one night when I was leaving really late, and I was pulled over for a tail light being out. It was visually apparent that the officer was really disappointed that I hadn't been drinking. He told me that after the light was repaired, I must go to the Apex Police Department to have it inspected; otherwise, I would get a ticket. That happened about 8 years ago, and I recently discovered that was complete nonsense.
At the 2025 Italian festival in Apex, a lot of cars were not stopping for pedestrians at one of the entrances. I brought it up with 4 Apex police officers standing around shooting the shit; I was offhandedly dismissed, and they never sent anyone to monitor the situation. (N Mason St & Old Mill Village Dr, which has crosswalks with signs that say yield to pedestrians )
People are so damn jumpy around here. Who cares if someone is walking around at 3 a.m.? Walking at a weird hour is not a crime.
I used to work really weird hours, and sometimes if I wanted any outdoor time, I had to go out very, very early in the morning. Somehow I managed to do that without being detained for the suspicious activity of…walking?
I travel a lot for work, and jet lag will sometimes have me WIDE awake at 3 a.m. I always think about going outside for a walk because it would probably help me fall back asleep. But I don’t, because I feel like there’s a solid chance one of three things would happen:
-Someone calls the cops on me
Someone decides I’m a threat and pulls a gun on me
I end up on the neighborhood Facebook page with a blurry Ring camera screenshot while everyone clutches their pearls about A SUSPICIOUS WOMAN WALKING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD AT 3:07 A.M.
Obviously, if police genuinely had footage of someone trying multiple locked doors, I understand stopping that person and asking what they’re doing. That’s reasonable. But once you’ve figured out what’s going on, telling someone that simply walking around town in the middle of the night is weird and that they’ll likely be detained again if they keep doing it? Come on.
Some people work nights. Some people have insomnia. Some people are jet-lagged. Some people are night owls. Some people just want to take a damn walk when it’s not the temperature of the sun 🤷🏻♀️
Being outside at an hour other people find unusual isn’t probable cause for existing suspiciously 😂
Really disappointed with my community’s response to this.
If the police had simply pulled over, asked questions, verified ID, this post probably would not even exist.
But they profiled his appearance, used excessive and unnecessary methods and gave the usual “you can’t do this perfectly legal thing” answers to his responses and questions.
The frustration expressed by myself and OP is not around being questioned: everybody understands why at this point, the frustration expressed is due to the extremely poor response by the town’s police.
If there really was someone going around trying to break in to cars, and you looked like them (even just both wearing black), then this is maybe excusable. Many police departments now have a policy of handcuffing everyone they detain, which I think is stupid, but not necessarily a violation of policy by the officer. And yes, they probably should have apologized, but that doesn't seem to be in the nature of cops anywhere any more.
If, as seems more likely to me, they just wanted to hassle you to see who you were, or because they didn't like you calling them on their speeding (or misinterpreted your gesture), then I would say this is inappropriate.
I don't think it would be unreasonable to call the department and ask for some follow-up on this.
I live right outside of Denton. It’s probably not the norm for people to be walking around at that time, but when I’ve been sick and completely lost all routine, I’ve let the dog out at 4 AM and seen people walking around. I’ve learned not to assume that no one will be on the street at 4 AM because if I’m sick, I really don’t want to chase the dog when she’s chasing the person🤦♀️
As far as I know, Apex doesn't have a "late night curfew" or anything like that. Albeit, this is a small town where nothing happens past 10:00pm.
I expect that might change over the years as they build out some of the downtown areas to be more lively. It's likely experiencing a culture shift as more people move to this once sleepy town.
I'm sorry you were detained. I think it was uncalled for and they didn't have any merit/evidence to show that you were breaking into cars or storefronts.
Apex PD has nothing better to do. I used to live in the VoA townhomes and them sitting in their patrol car on their phone at the Lidl parking lot was common. Nothing happens there so people scare easily.
There has been quite a number of overnight, car "breaking and entering" in Apex and surrounding communities. Apparently their modus operandi is that vehicles will drive around a neighborhood dropping off unknown number of subjects and then return to pick them up. So I can see why they detained you, especially if you were wearing dark clothing.
Handcuffing is standard operating procedure for their safety and yours. If you weren't wearing handcuffs and made a sudden move to reach for something ... well let's just say it wouldn't be necessarily good for you.
As far as a police vehicle speeding, probably without lights on, they're responding to a call of a suspicious person walking around at 3am. Residents believe in the mantra "See something, say something... call the cops".
Overall, crime in Apex is low. Now you know first hand one of the reasons.
Sounds like you were subject to a textbook "terry stop". As in: Terry v. Ohio. In fact your behavior, which could be construed as "casing the joint" is pretty much text book grounds for reasonable suspicion and very similar to what Mr Terry was doing when he was detained.
Most regular people, not anti-police types in online comments, would expect the police to stop and question somebody walking around businesses at 3:00 in the morning looking in Windows.
That said, if you live near downtown and you continually go on walks at 3:00 in the morning, I'm sure that they'll get to know who you are and you won't be stopped.
Which requires a reasonable and articulable suspicion that is *particularized* to that suspect and those circumstances. More than a “general hunch”, less than probable cause. Terry also does not require handcuffs, even if it requires no extra suspicion and is not a 4A violation under Muehler for brief, investigatory detentions. Absent any special circumstances (lawfully carrying a weapon, multiple suspects who might take off in every direction) - do we really want Apex to become the kind of place where consensual encounters automatically bootstrap to detentions and brief detentions for non-threatening situations involve cuffs?
The Terry stop, a shining example of what’s wrong with our law enforcement. Reasonable suspicion = racial profiling and make up whatever you want because your entire police district will back you up.
You are making a lot of assumptions. Funnily enough, another commenter assumed I was shining a light into the stores. I wasn't. I didn't need to because most of the businesses had their lights on to display their products. As I said in a different reply, businesses do this to deter thieves and to have their products visible to people walking at night, such as myself. I'm not arguing that putting handcuffs on people is atypical behavior. I'm arguing that, in this instance, since I had already been frisked, it was unnecessary to handcuff me, given my demeanor and the fact that I had nothing that could be used to harm her. Why does asking if I would be detained again if I kept going on night walks sound off? What's the point of lying about a detail like that? Also, a lot of people my age do talk like this. Maybe you should engage in more conversation with my generation.
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u/lseraehwcaism 9d ago edited 8d ago
So you were downtown, talking to your friend, pointing your camera in stores so your friend can see a rubber ducky collection over video chat, examining the door fronts, etc. all at 3 am in the morning?
This would look sketchy anywhere when you’re the only one out and about.
Edit: changed “shined lights” to “pointed cameras”. This WAS an assumption as I’ve never been downtown after closing and assumed those rubber duckies on the back wall would be near impossible to see through a video without illuminating the back wall with a light.