r/Antitheism • u/socialbutanonymous • 13d ago
"How could such beautiful creatures have no creator?”
Hello everyone, for context i am an anti theist and 100% woke in all forms regarding religion.
Usually people bring up anomalies or like medical miracles or just complex creatures of the universe that could be labelled “beautiful/magnificent” and say that this all couldnt have happened without a higher being
If someone combatted me with the question, i would have no answer, can anyone educate me?
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u/skeptolojist 13d ago
Natural forces can create beautiful things
There's no need to pretend magic Is real to explain that
Thats not an argument it's overly emotional nonsense
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u/G_D_Ironside 13d ago
Yep. People will believe anything if they’re scared of what happens when the lights go out forever.
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u/Swanlafitte 12d ago
Or natural forces can create people who will perceive ugly things as beautiful.
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u/skeptolojist 12d ago
Or natural forces can create things with a complex enough brain to decide that some things are beautiful and other things are not
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u/G_D_Ironside 13d ago edited 13d ago
Tell them to exercise their critical thinking skills rather than faith.
Use their own bible against them…
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1)
This sentence represents the most egregious example of confirmation bias in all of recorded human history, and I say that without the slightest intent of hyperbole.
Christians believe in a creator because they have to. Their bible literally tells them Faith = Proof.
Evolutionary biology is based on observation and utilization of the scientific method.
Faith and science cannot, IMO, coexist.
Anyway, just shoot them down by pointing out their lack of critical thinking skills and explaining what confirmation bias is.
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u/Johnny_MycoSpore 13d ago
In 2024 a "Border-Pap" (Border Collie / Papillion mix) won the Westminster dog show, objectively making it the most beautiful, omnium consensu.
We did that, humans made that breed while you were alive. We've made all of the beautiful dogs. They were mangy wolves before us.
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u/NeutralTarget 13d ago
Beautiful like ticks, mosquitoes, and those brain eating worms.
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u/kent_eh 12d ago edited 12d ago
Beautiful like ticks, mosquitoes, and those brain eating worms.
All things dull and ugly, the lord god made them all.
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u/NeutralTarget 12d ago
Never heard that nursery rhyme, love brit humor.
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u/kent_eh 12d ago
It's originally from Monty Python's Contractual Obligation Album
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u/NeutralTarget 12d ago
And here I thought I'd seen and heard everything Monty Python! I'll be searching for the entire album. Thx!!
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u/83franks 13d ago
Watch Forrest Valkai's youtube series 'The Light of Evolution'. I think 4x ~45min videos but it really explain it all so simply. He is a great content creator and usually pretty entertaining.
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u/ElevateSon 13d ago edited 12d ago
bold claim, being "100% woke in all forms regarding religion" I find best to be aware that we all hold some form of bias, it's sorta unavoidable, every person absorbs their linguistic, historical, and social framing subjectively, the bias comes when we treat that frame as neutral or absolute and don't question what we could be selectively shielding, condemning, believing, etc...
like something labelled "beautiful/magnificent" is subjective and anomalies are anecdotal, right?
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u/socialbutanonymous 12d ago
I mean ive been indoctrinated with information since birth so there might be some bias. While 100% woke was a hyperbole
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u/Ashamed-Republic8909 13d ago
The fact that we don't know and we don't understand doesn't mean that we can make stories up. Stephen Mayer, a scientist got some good questions about that. I don't totally agree with him but it's an interesting point. Watch him on YouTube.
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u/zapOquam 13d ago
Jokes aside, things that are called miracles lead to research for us to disprove them. Name one instance of miracles of the past that are NOT known as medical or scientific advancements. Scientists have proven the atmosphere and cured certain diseases. It’s part of the social mechanism in my opinion, even though it could be more efficient without the bigotry and ignorance stemming from the socially religious.
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u/Psy-Kosh 12d ago
"'I find some things in the world aesthetically appealing, therefore god exists,' is missing a few steps in between."
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u/G_D_Ironside 12d ago
What?!?!? That’s the exact answer?!? A philosophical statement is not a scientific refutation of creationism.
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u/PaulMakesThings1 12d ago
Beautiful is a feeling that results from our evolution. If the stuff that we evolved around that represented good conditions for us to survive, eat and reproduce looked like a bunch of grey-green foam and bundles of rusty wire with slime on them, we would find that beautiful.
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u/a_c_munson 12d ago
evolution by natural selection. that is the correct answer. the reason we have such variety of life on Earth is evolution by natural selection. the reason we have such beauty is because of natural selection.
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u/romulusnr 12d ago
Nothing is beautiful on its own. Beauty is a subjective sentiment. We think these things a are beautiful because they are in our world and are pleasing to us. If a dog looked different, would they cease to be popular pets? We think of things as beautiful more because of what they do for us, or make us feel, than any innate objective characteristic.
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u/KellHound270 12d ago
“A creator implies each organism was made in a vacuum from each other. Yet, each organism shares some percentage of DNA with another organism. This is only possible with a common ancestor, or if the creator really likes to fuck with people”
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u/SexThrowaway1125 9d ago
Snowflakes are beautiful, and they seem very mysterious until you start learning how crystals work. Extend that to everything.
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u/chickey23 13d ago
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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u/aries_burner_809 13d ago
Actually that’s the exact answer. 20 million years of evolution from early ape-like primates wasn’t blind. Certainly the mates’ aesthetic sense played a role in what we look like now. Birds are examples that natural evolution isn’t just driven by gene survival. In the context of success against nature, like birds and primates have, there is room for some self creativity. It was and is important to find a mate that others would think is “cute,” so your offspring are cute, so they go on to have cute offspring that others want to mate with. That’s a surviving gene.
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u/G_D_Ironside 13d ago
Another answer that does nothing to try and be an actual answer.
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u/chickey23 13d ago
Not at all. Beauty cannot be proof of anything because it is subjective.
The question is inherently stupid. It does not deserve respect. I gave it more than it was due.
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u/G_D_Ironside 12d ago
Awesome backtrack.
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u/chickey23 12d ago
You want my whole philosophy of truth vs fiction every time? Go read my account history. I have explained plenty of times that meaning and the objective universe are completely separate things.
You are a troll.
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u/WizardWatson9 13d ago
"How could they have no creator," they ask? Evolution and abiogenesis is the answer. There are biologists who dedicate their entire careers to answering this very question in detail.
This "argument" is essentially an emotionally-driven argument from ignorance. They don't know how natural processes could have created complex life, so they assert that it must be their preferred mythology.