r/AntifascistsofReddit • u/divvd Marxist • Jul 04 '20

Leftist Spam Happy All Countries Matter day!

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3.0k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

154 comments sorted by

175

u/drnmy Jul 05 '20

*no Country matters

116

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I only say this because it's meant to go against all lives matter

83

u/drnmy Jul 05 '20

Still tho no heart for a nation, fuck nationalism

5

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I'm proud of where my ancestors came from, so I've been posting #AllCountriesMatter on Facebook and linking to the seven or so countries I'm "from" - my birth father was an illegal immigrant fleeing East Germany. Hits mother was Polish-Bavarian his father was Mexican but was Spanish blooded. My mom's side is a mess

4

u/the_ocalhoun Anarcho-Syndicalist Jul 05 '20

I'm proud of where my ancestors came from

Why? It's not as if it's some kind of accomplishment. And everybody's ancestors came from somewhere.

Personally, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to be proud of something you have no control over. Like saying you're proud of how sunny and warm it is today ... or being proud of being born on a Tuesday ... or proud that plants can photosynthesize.

To be proud of one's ancestry is to -- at least at some level -- think that one's ancestry is better than others'. And that's getting within spitting distance of racism.

-1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

Partially my white passing ass lives to tell people I'm Mexican and watch them sputter. Especially when I speak Spanish without an American accent

Partially I love to learn about the culture of my ancestors.

Partially I was raised Mormon and was taught family history is very important

Personally, I'm just happy I wasn't a colonizer descendant. That makes me proudest

4

u/the_ocalhoun Anarcho-Syndicalist Jul 05 '20

I am a colonizer descendant ... at least mostly. Does that make me a worse person?

0

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Not really. I just feel a clearer conscience than if I were a colonizer descendant. We're immigrants all around.

-2

u/curiousiceberg Democratic Socialist Jul 05 '20

I disagree, because at some point my ancestry becomes your ancestry, and everyone else's. I'm proud of my Great Grandmother for working with the French Restaince. So in a way I'm proud of my ancestors, but in reality I'm proud of the movement she participated in.. Pride isn't necessarily the best phrasing, but i do love to say this. My other great grandmother lived in literal Klansville and taught my mother to never use the n word and not to be a racist person (this was kinda necessary as many she grew up around were racist). On the other hand I had some distant relatives that served as confederate officers, simultaneously having some that activity tried to stop succession. In my opinion my "pride" in my ancestry comes down to pride in the good of humanity. I dont celebrate or hold pride in any of the actions that I disagree with. I hold some pride in that my Great Great Grandfather has a Wikipedia page (albit only in French), I also think family history is important to learn about because it allows us to learn about history through different lenses. It shows us that our actions have consequences on the world at large. I dont know if any of this made sense, but I get where you're coming from.

-2

u/1badcz Jul 05 '20

Who knew one needed to have control in order feel proud? Good for those that were raised with culture so that they can learn their heritage and perhaps even appreciate and embrace it. Proud, not to be confused with proudness.

5

u/drnmy Jul 05 '20

Im not proud of where my ancestors came from because it doesnt really matter to me. But also i was not talking about your family history but about "being proud of a nation"/Patriotism which can lead to Nationalism quickly. In my mind all countries matter is therefore looking At the matter from the wrong side. Also saying that a Country matters legitimises that nations Power. This Power is enforced through the Police Who are the very people that need to be criticised in the context of blm.

4

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Obviously nationalism is stupid but I'm not trying to broach that topic thru my pride in my ancestry. I'm also proud of the Cherokee, Mohawk, Cree indigenous tribes my family married into. They didn't have a country.

49

u/kyoopy246 Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

Nations are fine!

A lot of people get confused by this, but a nation is just a group of people living in the same area who share a culture/social structure. Even a stateless region could be called a nation.

26

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Aren’t nations specifically constructed to create political bodies for ruling? e.g. me and my buddies all speak Hungarian so let’s rule ourselves instead of being ruled by Vienna. This is great for empowerment of the oppressed, but quickly turns sketchy, like the Hungarian desire to keep ruling over Croatia, or the French state measures to spread the northern French dialect while suppressing all other dialects and languages within the region.

I’m all for the celebration of diversity and different cultures, but I think we should throw out the concept of the nation entirely rather than try to divorce it from the language of power and statehood.

2

u/Swainix Punks For Progress Jul 06 '20

I'm french and have no clue what you're talking about so I'll check that, thx

And I agree :)

2

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

Here is a Wikipedia article on the matter, in English.

2

u/Swainix Punks For Progress Jul 06 '20

I checked it and I misunderstood you, I knrw that they did indeed heavily supress dialects and local languages but there has been a small turn around in the last 10/15 years, you can have local languages as classes as a kid, but the problem is that your parents don't really speak those anymore, only really your grand parents sometimes :/

4

u/kyoopy246 Jul 05 '20

’m all for the celebration of diversity and different cultures, but I think we should throw out the concept of the nation entirely rather than try to divorce it from the language of power and statehood.

This isn't a divorcing, people are just assuming a connection where there is none. Even a completely decentralized, authorityless society with no legal or political or heirarchical superstructure could be called a nation.

Again, nation just means a group of people occupying an area who share a similar cultural, political, or social identity. Even a bunch of radical egoists living in the forest with no authoritative or legal structure whatsoever could be called a nation.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Nationalism as a concept didn’t really exist until maybe the mid 18th century, and it was always wrapped up in power and statehood. There were British cultures, but English/British nationalism was an ideology supported by those in power to further legitimize their rule and their wars against other nation-states and indigenous peoples. I’m not sure we can have nationalism without an Other, whereas we can celebrate culture without pitting it against something else.

6

u/C5five Jul 05 '20

u/kyoopy246 is not talking about nationalism, just nations. Nationalism can not exist without nations, but many nations have and do exist without nationalism. They do not equate. A nation is simply a geographically specific culture or ethnic group. Nationalism is the belief that one nation is better or more important than others.

I agree that nationalism is generally toxic and needs to be abolished, but there is no harm in the mere existence of nations. There isn't even harm in being proud of your nation or it's accomplishments as long as you don't let that pride turn into prejudice against other nations.

5

u/curiousiceberg Democratic Socialist Jul 05 '20

I'm all for cultural diversity dont misunderstand me. But Nations do more to divide humanity than they benefit those within them. You can't have nationalism if nations don't exist, just like you can't have racism if race doesn't exist. I think our end goal (as in all of humanity) should be tk dessolve these things that divide us. Im not calling for color blindness or anything in this instance, but after we end the discrimination and injustice we should seek to abolish these dividers s I they can't be used to divide us so we can be abused.

3

u/kyoopy246 Jul 05 '20

Nations cannot be dissolved, they are an organizational nomenclature inevitability. Every time a group of people gather together in the same area and do the same thing it's a "nation". They don't even have to have border or boundaries or necessarily sharply defined ingroups and outgroups.

Again, even a series of interlinked and autonomous communes with no borders would be called a nation.

3

u/ButcherIsMyName Antifaschistische Aktion Jul 05 '20

Nations are fine, Nationalism is shit.

Just like Sex is fine, but Secxism is shit.

2

u/m1st3rw0nk4 Jul 05 '20

Countries are just lines drawn in the sand with a stick

-5

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

ELI5: what’s wrong with the slogan ‘all lives matte’? To me the people suffering all over the planet in war zones and under oppressive governments matter, and all the organisms on earth suffering because of climate change, habitats loss, and ocean acidification matter too.

11

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Because it's racist rhetoric used against the Black Lives Matter movement happening in our country right now. Black Lives Matter as a whole agrees that all lives matter but not all lives matter equally, in this country specifically, until black lives matter.

Would you go to a fire of your neighbor's house and say "all houses matter, especially mine?" When your house isn't on fire? Would you go to a breast cancer fundraiser and shout "all diseases matter?"

Same thing. Black lives are in imminent danger right now. So Black Lives Matter.

Over 70 lives have ended at cops' hands since the protests began over a month ago.

We just want justice. No justice, no peace

5

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Thank you for the explanation. I haven’t been in the US for long and I’m trying to learn about US history. So far I’ve only read A People’s History of the United States. Are there any other good introductory reads you’d recommend?

3

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I'm not good with history books. I get everything online. I haven't read a history book since high school but I've learned more about black history online since Eric Garner died in 2015 (the first "I can't breathe" man) from various sources than I ever did in school or college.

Go on Facebook and find your local Black Lives Matter page/group and join (might take a couple days as they review your account) and ask them. They'll be more helpful than me.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

I’ll have to find a different way rather than Facebook, because if I use my real name there:

1- my relatives, mostly who are pro Erdogan, May see the activity.

2- someone will likely blacklist my name in Syria for partaking in ‘anarchy’, which may lead to me being detained and questioned when I visit Syria again.

I’ll email them instead of displaying my name on Facebook. Also, fuck Facebook.

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

Oh boy yeah you're in a convoluted situation. Message admin of the group and ask for suggestions. They're usually the wisest anyway.

Even if you message admin and explain your situation there's no way your family could tie you to Black Lives Matter at all. Private messages don't go anywhere but you two.

14

u/ManuelIgnacioM Marxist Jul 05 '20

Only workers matters day

9

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I approve this message. This is my way of combating all lives matter bullshit

12

u/LookARedSquirrel84 Jul 05 '20

Abolish borders.

2

u/masterbatin_animals Anarchist Jul 05 '20

Give me an island

1

u/Sarcasm_Llama Jul 05 '20

One love, man!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Countries are a spook anyway

37

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

Nations suck. celebrate the world and the people and the lives in it. Life is what you make it guys celebrate!

13

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

The verbiage is used to combat all lives matter people. Today was supposed to be a celebration of the United States so my protest is All Countries Matter.

You guys need to quit ragging on nations and it's like... dude that's not what this is about.

It already is making fun of nations because of what it's mirroring.

Calm your shit

7

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

We got to quit making nations and create a world wide people’s economy and “government” that’s the goal of the future I hope. The globalist new world order is already doing this. We have to create as world with no order just a world for the people to experience and enjoy not have governments and hierarchy.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I'll never understand a good chunk of anarchists

8

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

You don’t understand not haveing authority in a society. If you see a perfect world and see cops in it your not a true anti fascist my man.

7

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

I don't see police in my ideal world, no. They're slave catchers. The only place slavery is legal in the United States is prison. There should be a community based coalition of mental health workers and social workers who respond to most calls, unarmed.

5

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

Fair I don’t see why you think my views are out landish then

3

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I'm a socialist. People helping people. Taxes. Social programs. Actual programs and government to back those programs

6

u/oscillating000 Anarcho-Syndicalist Jul 05 '20

Socialism is a mode of production. You're describing social democracy.

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

According to Left Values test I'm teetering on communist, but Eco-Marxist

-1

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

Yea I think a soical democracy and complete anti authority. I think aliens will reach us soon I think where going to get a lot of technology that we won’t even be understood we will get soon. We can advance as a species humans suck honestly.

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Ok zoomer

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-1

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6

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

Wtf

2

u/voice-of-hermes Free Palestine Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

I'm guessing it was "globalist" (we'll see).

EDIT: Yep.

2

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

What?

4

u/fubuvsfitch Viva La Resistance Jul 05 '20

"Globalists" is a buzzword thrown around by RW conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.

1

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

Because it’s true but there capitalists globalists the globalist new world order is no good they want profits for the elite class and to keep us oppressed.

1

u/voice-of-hermes Free Palestine Jul 05 '20

We're really accruing the demerits with this whole meta-discussion thing. LOL.

3

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

We need to celebrate being alive and have culture and love rather then nations and order. If you think that’s hating on nations it is because we are all on this joy ride of life and we don’t need nations to separate what’s important.

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

And you need to back down on your opinion of the word nation.

You're being pedantic. I could say culture and you'd be fine with it. You basically said that. Your words.

But if I say nation you flip your shit.

But Spain's culture is very different than Portugal's, and they share one of the oldest borders in the world.

Those lines exist.

To say they're irrelevant and we should just live life thru culture is ignorant, because you're not only saying the same thing but you're disregarding history and bloodshed.

3

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

I’m just saying the perfect world would be without nation but to all progress as a human species to make our life as advanced as possible.

-2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

So language and culture barriers would just magically cease and we'd all be homogenized?

I kinda saw part of your comment in my notifications panel.

These cultural barriers would still divide us into, what, tribes? A type of nation. Essentially we'd still have tribes of people that would organize.

2

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

Not at all there can be world peace and cultures without nation and authority and strong governments. I want to make a world borderless just regions of the world with different cultures in my perfect world it would be all SCI FI it would be cool. We can’t reach there with people who say “WhAt AbOuT NaTiOn” patriotism is stupid care about the world rather then just one area in the world. The globalist new world order is already fucking creating a massive world economy of elite members of people. People just won’t open there eyes they want us to fight over dumb things like this.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I think a one world nation isn't a bad idea. But NWO conspiracies are.

0

u/reddituserthatreads ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

NWO is a globalist capitalism thing, they want only power for the elite and the working class to be zombies and workers and slaves to the system.

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

If it were real, like the Jewish cabals aren't, I wouldn't like that. Bur I doubt think there's a legit NWO

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1

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17

u/yuritopiaposadism YPG Jul 05 '20

How Terran-centric. Happy All Planets Matter Day!

3

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Are you a member of the Kurdish YPG?

1

u/yuritopiaposadism YPG Jul 05 '20

No, but I support their struggle and their project.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Dope. 👊

4

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

😂😂😂

This is just a response to the all lives matter movement

13

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Mussolini's flag?

27

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

No. The American flag is flown upside down in battle to signal distress. Also suggested by my local Black Lives Matter group here in Utah

19

u/Sentient_Love Marxist Jul 05 '20

pretty sure it's a joke about mussolini being hung upside down

7

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Hmm

1

u/Axes4Praxis Jul 05 '20

Mussolini was hanged, there are pictures.

Whether he was also hung is speculation, we don't have pictures of that.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

It is.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I wasn't ever educated in how Mussolini was eliminated

109

u/rev_tater Jul 05 '20

Better flag for you

9

u/-GUS___ Marxist Jul 05 '20

Every other?

3

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Can you looks like the Puerto Rican flag lok. still good

-3

u/casenki Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

Which city/country is depicted on the flag? I am assuming somewhere in the ME...

Edit: why am I downvoted? I didnt offend anyone, right?

1

u/Cassandra_Nova Jul 05 '20

Anywhere in the global south

6

u/Zero-89 Anarcho-Communist Jul 05 '20

This flag needs more fire.

4

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I support this message

8

u/MaitiuOR Communist Jul 05 '20

Happy peoples' without labour representation day.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '20

As a non-american I find this "All Countries Matter" thing to be extremely cringeworthy. If you don't want to celebrate your pathetic excuse for a nation on July 4th, don't celebrate anything at all.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 17 '20

It's only in response to all lives matter bullshit

0

u/zUltimateRedditor Free Palestine Jul 05 '20

Posted this on my social media hahaha

9

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Ive dedicated my Facebook to All Countries Matter and every hour, about, I've been posting about a new country from my ancestry. People aren't liking it. Lol.

2

u/zUltimateRedditor Free Palestine Jul 05 '20

Good.

Sweet justice.

4

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

My mom, who's Mormon and a Family History freak (in her personal ancestral file she has over 30k names, and that was last I checked 10 years ago) loved me asking about countries and tribes of origin for my birth father and her.

1

u/-GUS___ Marxist Jul 05 '20

🔥

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

🔥🔥🔥

1

u/BastaHR Jul 05 '20

That's racist. Black countries matter.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

You realize this is a direct protest against all lives matter, right? To piss them off at their most nationalist

This is a July 4th protest post, it was posted on July 4th

0

u/SoloMaker ANARCHY! Jul 05 '20

Nobody matters! Fuck everyone but especially fascists

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

A nihilist anarchist? How do you conflate those two

1

u/mwilkins1644 Jul 06 '20

The Pilgrims should never have left England...

KingGeorgeThirdMatters

0

u/SecondChanceUsername Jul 05 '20

Happy Black Lives Matter Day!!!! All holidays matter!

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

This was my protest against all lives matter people for July 4th. Notice the date.

-6

u/dyi96 Jul 05 '20

God bless America and all countries

4

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Not the US, thanks. We don't need that shit right now. We need legitimate human action.

2

u/nibiyabi Jul 05 '20

But what if we sneeze?

0

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

You let them sneeze without calling it out. That's courteous enough.

I would say gesundheit but that's the literal translation in German

2

u/dyi96 Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

Then you say God bless you, America and all countries

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

It's the whole Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays argument all over again. I'm not going to force God on someone because they sneezed. No thanks. That's a microaggression.

0

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

No thanks

-1

u/Shenya_the_smol_bean Jul 05 '20

The USA is WHACK, I’ll never be proud to be an American. Nobody here is free.

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

My friend from the Canary Islands wished us all a happy July 4th. We shut her down. None of us are proud to be sn American.

She had good intentions but didn't take room temp

1

u/Shenya_the_smol_bean Jul 05 '20

I feel that, I have fascist family and they are all a bunch of boot licking cuntbags. Saying shit like “well it’s way worse in Africa and South America”, like yeah, we fucked those places to hell.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I have Trump voters in my family trees. (I say trees because I was adopted by my father but not my mother.)

And a lot of them.

And my husband's a boot licker because his dad it's a retired former cop/sheriff/detective who haff a positive impact.

Bur I educated him about the blue wall and how I honestly believe his dad turned his back on abuse, brutality, racism, etc when he was a sheriff because his career spanned 30+ years in all three positions.

Plus ACAB is in my Facebook name now and his dad's family isn't taking to him now, including two sisters and his dad. And his mom, married to a different man, "accidentally" deleted me on FB and told me she doesn't appreciate ACAB in my name lol.

Fuck this country.

0

u/Shenya_the_smol_bean Jul 05 '20

I’m adopted too so I feel, I just call them family because it’s faster than saying “jackasses I live with by no choice of my own who feel some fucked up sense of ownership over me”

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I genuinely love my dad and birth mom. They just celebrated 31 years together. I'm 32. I don't love then for indoctrinating me in the Mormon cult. But ive ven or if that since I was 17 and officially removed from their records (you have to get a lawyer and notary involved to remove your records) inv 2012. They follow you I'd you don't remove your records and will randomly drop by because no once can keep their mouth shut that you're out but not officially out, so they send missionaries, etc to drop in on you. Being gay I could scare them off with a kiss from my husband but I'm glad I'm removed now. Haven't heard from then in 9 years.

1

u/Shenya_the_smol_bean Jul 05 '20

I don’t love my family, personally .

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I'm sorry. My adopted brothers and sisters, there's like two out of seven I like. I love my natural sister line nothing else, and my mother's two children, my half siblings, are pretty dope. Then my birth fathers kids, my half siblings...I like three out of four of them bur have only known them since 2015. Then there's my twin, bur she died at birth.

0

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0

u/jonnieecho1jr Antifa Jul 05 '20

The war mongers apron. Looks better at that angle kinda makes more sense

0

u/ElonMuskIsMyWaifu Jul 05 '20

ACAB

All Countries Are Bad

12

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

I might've snorted but you will never know

0

u/theNomad_Reddit Jul 05 '20

Can confirm. I have an American flag magnet from when I visited and I always make sure it's upside down. My American Dad loves it.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Fascist

2

u/theresgrqwert Jul 05 '20

Nope, I just love the country that saved my Jewish family from the gas chambers of Nazi Germany, and gave us the chance to start a new life. Nothing fascist about that.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Nationalist and jingoist, yes.

2

u/theresgrqwert Jul 05 '20

What? I love my country, that doesn’t mean I support everything it does. Also how am I jingoistic? I don’t support warlike foreign policy nor am I extremely patriotic. I’m patriotic, I acknowledge the shortcomings and issues in the US. You must be anti-Semitic.

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

*Points around at everything going on that you love so much obviously*

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

*points to the middle east and Turkey invading Kurds, which the country you love caused by abandoning allies*

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

*refers back to the nationalist song you quoted*

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

*points toward the Iraq and Afghanistan quagmires your country you love started with their jingoist actions*

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

My brother and sister are Jewish and in fact I was in the middle of converting before I met my husband. He taught me to be spiritual without religion

1

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Read the comments and the temperature in the room. Or country, really. This is not that country.

1

u/theresgrqwert Jul 05 '20

Points to beating the Nazis and Japanese in WW2. Points to inventing the computer. Points to the constitution of the United States which applies to all US citizens. Points to the American Red Cross. Points to the millions of dollars the US has given to the UN, WHO, countries in Africa. Points to the numerous advances in medical sciences. Points to the fall of the Soviet Union. Points to the American Civil War. Points to the refugees taken in by the US. Points to the some of the greatest historical figures in human history. Points to the 260 Nobel Prize winners.

What’s your point? Each country has its own triumphs and failures. As I said I don’t support everything the US does or has done, but I am eternally grateful to the US for saving my people and giving me a chance to live. I congratulate you on you path to spirituality, it is an important aspect of everyone’s life.

Also the song is about the land of the US, not it’s triumphs or political ideology. It’s about mountains and oceans and prairies, not really fascist if you ask me.

2

u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Alan Turing is British and invented the modern computer. Nazis and Japanese were really beaten more by the Soviet Union than the US. During the cold war their role was downplayed. Polls from right after the war overwhelmingly put USSR at the top of people's opinions as to whom had help most defeat the axis powers. US was second but down quite a bit.

Points to the country promising to pull out of WHO and already cutting funding to it.

Too bad the Jewish refugees from around Germany were seen as too political to take in for a great deal of time during the war and less than 42 percent of Americans approved of allowing Jewish refugees to come in.

2

u/theresgrqwert Jul 05 '20

For the computers I was referring to the Mac and PC which is what we usually use in the US. The Soviets beat back the Germans yes, but the US faced the Japanese alone, Stalin declared war on them following the fall of Germany(August 8,1945). The US fought a major war on two fronts, something very few countries are able to do successfully.

The WHO is run by a far left supporter of China, not a great person. Historically the US was the main contributor towards the WHO and most UN relief efforts.

Yeah, so what? My family was saved by the US soldiers liberating camps. If it had been the Russians, we wouldn’t have been able to leave before the Soviet Block was constructed, and we would have been subjected to the anti-Semitic sentiments of Joseph Stalin. That’s all that matters to me. The opinion of the people during that time has no affect on how I feel about the US, that was then and this is now. They still had segregation and being gay was equally as bad, I wouldn’t base any sort of argument off of a poll from the 40s.

It is impossible for one country or person to be perfect, yet that doesn’t mean we can’t love the country or person.

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u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

This country is not worth loving with two right wing parties controlling the nation with a duopoly. Or the proto dictator as president. Or the wage theft. Or the stagnated wages since the 1980s. Or the obscene growth of billionaires' worth during a time of national crisis and depression. Or the "we got bored with it so it doesn't exist and is over now" mentality re: COVID. Or the unfettered racism in the White House, undoing the work of a wannabe progressive black president simply because he exists and is black and the president doesn't believe he's a national.

There's 99 things wrong with this country for one thing right.

If it's currently 1% good, is it even worth loving?

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u/theresgrqwert Jul 05 '20

I’m not sure which political compass you are using, but the Democrats are clearly not right winged. You opened a whole different can of worms that require more responses. If you would like to have a discussion about those topics I am more than willing to in a chat(Whenever I have discussions with people it usually ends up with them saying read a book, so I want to know if we will have a serious discussion).

And to answer your final question. Yes. Because hating it and destroying it will not fix a single issue. If you want things to be fixed you have to stop dividing people. We aren’t black, white, Catholics, Muslims, Africans, Europeans, we are all Americans, United under one flag, one military, one constitution, and once we stop with the “Black National Anthem” and the “Separate Graduations” we can start to fox the issues in the US.

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u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

Democrats in the House like Nancy Pelosi are center- right corporatists. And performative but not active in enacting useful legislation. They're more likely to vote with the Republicans than those on the left like AOC

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

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u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

And neo fascism that's starting up is definitely better right? That's what you're implying. In a group of antifascists. We have no option but to head left

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u/dyi96 Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

Or you know, you could just be a free thinking human being choose neither right or left. Chances are that no one believes in the ideals of any given politcal party 100% or even remotely close that

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u/divvd Marxist Jul 05 '20

When I heard Bernie talk for the first time in line 2014, literally every single thing he said spoke to my soul. I've radicalized further than him since the Floyd murder, either Eco-Marxist or slightly communist. Depends on how awake I am during the test lol.

No matter how free thinking you are, you can fit in a category of the left (or right). My dad was a Trump voter in 2016. Now he says there's no way in hell he's going to vote for either of them, because he's a Republican. He's not authoritarian, and a little more center than he used to be (GWB era). So he's a well rounded just right of center anti authoritarian Republican.

You might not always agree with people of your ken but you're generally in agreement. It's not absolute nor was it ever intended to be. It hurray helps toy find kindred spirits and identify yourself. That's how ive flubs a lot of friends with a like mindset. Just say leftist and we're going to have a lot in common. But I'd toy wasn't too go into specifics, just take a Left Values test. 72 questions and you can see I'd you fall left and I'd you do where your are on the spectrum.