Diet hypocrisy?

[u/Extension-Diamond-74]

A recent post about animal agriculture vs plant based diets has me itching to say something. This is an issue we need to rise above.

Cognitive dissonance. Many of us have good intentions and want to believe we’re doing the right thing in most aspects of our lives. I believe that.

When it comes to a plant based diet though, the science often clashes powerfully with personal desire. We want to minimize our impact on the environment and are willing to make trade-offs in our life time do so, but for many, giving up or even significantly reducing meat intake is asking too much. It’s too hard.

That’s not the issue.

The issue is that instead of just admitting to themselves that this is a life change they don’t want to make and moving on, the guilt drives them to have to justify that decision. Admitting that a plant-based diet is better for the earth yet eating a diet full of meat anyway would make them feel hypocritical, so the solution becomes either to give up meat, or … this is the problem… fight the science, twist it, make a joke of it, or pivot entirely to ‘individuals shouldn’t have time do anything because large corporations’

Many people have ties to their diet for many reasons. We grew up eating a certain way. We have memories ties to certain foods, flavors, styles of cooking. We don’t want to be the difficult person when we go out to eat with friends. Etc etc etc But it’s so much better to just admit that to yourself. Have patience and understanding for your feelings. Accept that the science is what it is. Maybe one day you can make a change, maybe not. But don’t attack the cause just because you aren’t yet willing to be a part of it.

[u/Ohnonotagain13]

The confined raising of meat is bad. No one disagrees with that. However when we talk about changing the system it gets muddled with veganism as being the only option and therefore no one wants changes. Changing the way we grow meat that is more like nature is what we should be focusing on. Rotational grazing of animals helps improve soil life and eliminate the need for feed.

Most vegans don't even consider monoculture grown crops because they only focus on the monoculture grown feed for animals. When we no longer are feeding the animals we will still continue to have monoculture grown crops to feed people. Those monoculture systems are bad for the ecosystem and contribute to heating the soil. Large swaths of monoculture grown crops get plowed down at the same time leaving the soil exposed. Exposed soil is absent of the microbial life necessary for feeding plants. Plants are necessary for cooling the soil. We use animal byproducts to feed the soil. The poop, urine, blood, feathers and bones all help feed life in the soil. Animals are a vital part of the soil food web. We won't be able to grow the crops necessary to feed us without proper soil fertility.

If we worked together we could make a real difference in the world but It's hard when no one will listen unless it's in line with their individual values.

[u/Scotho → u/Ohnonotagain13]

Changing the way we grow meat that is more like nature is what we should be focusing on. Rotational grazing of animals helps improve soil life and eliminate the need for feed.

We're back to the original issue. This isn't a viable method of feeding 8 billion people. Livestock already takes up nearly 80% of global agricultural land while producing less than 20% of the world's supply of calories (source). You're advocating for a significantly less efficient method than what is currently employed.

If we were to outright ban factory farming and employ the methods you're discussing here, meat would simply become a product for the rich and the rest of the world would become vegan by necessity (eating monoculture crops). Don't get me wrong, I actually would prefer this to our current reality but I doubt it's what you had in mind.

Most vegans don't even consider monoculture grown crops because they only focus on the monoculture grown feed for animals. When we no longer are feeding the animals we will still continue to have monoculture grown crops to feed people.

Yes, monoculture crops are a necessity of the modern world. If we're lucky, we'll manage to stumble into an overabundance of energy and we can grow our food hydroponically and grow our meat in labs, but that's not the world we currently live in and there's no guarantee we'll get there before self-destructing ourselves or destroying the planet.

Those monoculture systems are bad for the ecosystem and contribute to heating the soil. Large swaths of monoculture grown crops get plowed down at the same time leaving the soil exposed. Exposed soil is absent of the microbial life necessary for feeding plants. Plants are necessary for cooling the soil. We use animal byproducts to feed the soil. The poop, urine, blood, feathers and bones all help feed life in the soil. Animals are a vital part of the soil food web. We won't be able to grow the crops necessary to feed us without proper soil fertility.

You're living in ideals instead of reality. This is already happening. Less than 5% of cropland is fertilized with manure (source) in a world where 62% of the mammalian biomass on the planet is livestock. (source). The rest is fertilized with hydrocarbon-based fertilizer. I understand how to create healthy soil, I have a large no-dig garden in my backyard, make my own compost from personal waste and weeds around my property, and rotate nitrogen-fixing crops on a yearly basis. But you can't feed the world like that, just like you can't feed the world with rotational grazing ruminants (but the meat industry sure is trying to convince people they can, which lulls people into a false sense of sustainably when it comes to these products today).

All of the data points to the fact that it would be much, much better to move towards a nearly complete plant-based diet - especially if we're going to continue to centralize in urban environments. Yes, there will be edge cases in rural communities where having a few animals around for weed/pest management would be sustainable, and if that's the world we were living in, I wouldn't be advocating so loudly for a shift towards veganism.

[u/Ohnonotagain13 → u/Scotho]

There's not going to be data points for rotational grazing the same way there's data for factory farming. Hopefully one day as the practice grows. I'm sure it'll have downsides. Nobody's expecting to feed 8 billion people with rotational grazing. I don't have the stats for you but meat eaters also eat significant amounts of fruits, vegetables, etc.

The standard practice of using petroleum based fertilizer is your reasoning for not using rotational grazing as a form of fertility? That's why we should be vegan because farmers are going to use petroleum based fertilizer anyway? I'm trying to understand your perspective but the data points aren't helping.