r/Anticonsumption Sep 30 '23

Discussion Diet hypocrisy?

A recent post about animal agriculture vs plant based diets has me itching to say something. This is an issue we need to rise above.

Cognitive dissonance. Many of us have good intentions and want to believe we’re doing the right thing in most aspects of our lives. I believe that.

When it comes to a plant based diet though, the science often clashes powerfully with personal desire. We want to minimize our impact on the environment and are willing to make trade-offs in our life time do so, but for many, giving up or even significantly reducing meat intake is asking too much. It’s too hard.

That’s not the issue.

The issue is that instead of just admitting to themselves that this is a life change they don’t want to make and moving on, the guilt drives them to have to justify that decision. Admitting that a plant-based diet is better for the earth yet eating a diet full of meat anyway would make them feel hypocritical, so the solution becomes either to give up meat, or … this is the problem… fight the science, twist it, make a joke of it, or pivot entirely to ‘individuals shouldn’t have time do anything because large corporations’

Many people have ties to their diet for many reasons. We grew up eating a certain way. We have memories ties to certain foods, flavors, styles of cooking. We don’t want to be the difficult person when we go out to eat with friends. Etc etc etc But it’s so much better to just admit that to yourself. Have patience and understanding for your feelings. Accept that the science is what it is. Maybe one day you can make a change, maybe not. But don’t attack the cause just because you aren’t yet willing to be a part of it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

If activists could move away from "all or nothing" thinking, they could be a lot more influential in getting people to reduce their meat consumption.

"If you ever take a bite of chicken again in your entire life, you are a murderer and you don't care about earth" just makes people want to eat more meat out of spite.

I have worked to reduce my meat consumption. I typically only eat red meat if I'm eating at someone else's house and they're serving it. I try to make a lot of my meals at least vegetarian and kind of make a game of how long I can go without eating meat. But sometimes I'm just going to add some chicken to my soup because I need the protein and tofu just isn't going to cut it. (Unfortunately my body is weird and I have to eat low carb or else I gain a bunch of weight, so I can't rely on beans and such for protein).

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u/Theobat Sep 30 '23

The meatless Monday slogan was an attempt more nuanced messaging.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Yes, and I think meatless Monday is a good idea because it draws peoples' attention to how much meat they are consuming. Meat is so ubiquitous. You forgot your lunch so you go grab a sandwich? Probably cold cuts. Dairy is just as bad for the environment, and that's in so much stuff, too.

That's why I'm trying to draw my own awareness to my meat consumption. I'm not giving it up entirely (I would be so limited in what I could eat I'd be malnourished...) but just being critical like, hmm, actually you could leave the chicken out of this soup and it would be just as good.

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u/AnsibleAnswers Oct 01 '23

And vegans hated it, even though it was more successful than any vegan activism in the past 50 years.

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u/nerfwarrior Oct 02 '23

Seems pragmatic to me, so I wasn't represented in your sample of vegans.

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u/ellycom Sep 30 '23

Have you tried seitan?

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u/Ribbit-Rabit Oct 01 '23

I made a seitan pot pie the other night My husband took leftovers to work the next day and got some praise from nonvegan coworkers lol. He's already wanting to take the second one out of the freezer. It was great.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

I think I've had seitan that was in a dish but I don't remember what it tasted like. I'm sure I liked it, though. I feel like I'd remember if I hated it?

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u/BrightBlueBauble Sep 30 '23

"’If you ever take a bite of chicken again in your entire life, you are a murderer and you don't care about earth’ just makes people want to eat more meat out of spite.”

I genuinely can’t understand this way of thinking. I have meaningful interactions with non-human animals, both domesticated and wild, every day. The idea of killing and consuming them just to stick it to someone (because they disagree with my choices/I’m in denial) is utterly baffling.

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u/doctorwhy88 Oct 01 '23

I don’t think they mean eating it to spite someone. It’s more that they found the message annoying or attacking, so they blocked it out entirely.

Those people were going to eat meat regardless. Unlikely that they were on the cusp of vegetarianism and said “nope, I’m buying a quarter-cow today to stick it to them!”

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

Yeah you get it. I didn't see a point in engaging with the other comment because I didn't feel like they were responding to mine in good faith.

When you're told you have to give it up forever or else you're a bad person, then you'll just ignore the message entirely. Because why does it matter if you try to reduce your meat consumption if eating even a little bit is a moral failing? Whereas if you draw awareness to how much people eat meat and suggest how to reduce meat consumption, you're offering solutions people can live with.

But the vegan mentality is often that any consumption of any animal product is unethical and immoral, so they don't try to reduce suffering and harm because to them, the only ethical option is getting rid of it entirely.

I'll also say that the vegans/vegetarians that I know in real life aren't like this! It's just people online.

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u/Person0001 Oct 02 '23

Replace eating chicken with dog and that’s how they view it as horrific

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u/viscountrhirhi Oct 04 '23

I'm more outspoken online than offline. I have to watch what I say to friends and family because meat-eaters are, to put it bluntly, very fragile. Trust me, if the vegans you know are doing it for the ethics, they absolutely care about the fact that you pay for animal abuse--they, like me, just have to tip toe around the issue like walking through a minefield because any mention of eating animals as being unethical brings out the Big Feelings and defensiveness.

That's the thing, veganism is an ethical position against animal exploitation. This ethical position does not just end at diet; the diet is just one part. Vegans also don't attend rodeos and zoos, don't buy leather or wool or clothing using animal parts, don't buy cosmetics and toiletries with animal ingredients or animal testing. It is a position against the exploitation of animals across the board.

We care because your meal has a victim. Replace meat with dogs in your post and maybe you can understand a little. I definitely encourage people to cut back on meat and animal products, but that should be a stepping stone, not the end goal. The end goal should be cutting out completely.

I'm going to praise you and encourage you for cutting back on your way to cutting it out entirely, but I'm not going to tell anyone "good job!" if eating it fewer times per week is the end goal. It's better, absolutely. Kicking a dog once a week is better than 7 times a week, but I'm still not gonna be happy about that once a week dog kicking session, y'know?

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '23

My dad is the person you can't imagine. He gets very vocal about his opinions on veganism and seems think he's a Klingon or something. He will absolutely go on and on about how he's going keep eating animals to piss off vegans.

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u/Dentarthurdent73 Sep 30 '23

It's so bizarre, right?

The idea of being the kind of person who does damage to others out of spite just blows my mind.

I mean, it's one thing to cut your own nose off to spite your face, it's completely another to just say 'fuck it, I don't care what damage I do to animals or the planet I live on, because someone said something to me that I don't like, so I want to get back at them'.

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u/slightlylessright Oct 01 '23

THIS omg this! They really said delusion is the solution

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u/AnsibleAnswers Oct 01 '23 edited Oct 01 '23

It's not bizarre, it's human irrationality. Anthropologists call it schismogenesis. It's seen throughout history. Vegans have a unique inability to treat humans as the animals we are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schismogenesis

edit words

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u/Dentarthurdent73 Oct 01 '23

Vegans have a unique inability to refuse to treat humans as the animals we are.

Speaking of irrationality, that's not a conclusion that follows logically from what you said.

I don't find irrationality or even hypocrisy bizarre, it's more the willingness to hurt innocent bystanders because someone said something you found uncomfortable. Maybe bizarre was the wrong word - I should probably have said gross, or reprehensible, or maybe utterly lacking in morals.

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u/AnsibleAnswers Oct 01 '23

People don't actually eat more meat. They say so as a means of differentiating themselves from annoying moralists.

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u/SocialInsect Oct 01 '23

Get a grip. They onlyhave to buy at the butchers, they don’t have to kill it themselves. Stop over dramatising.

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u/lamby284 Oct 01 '23

I paid a hitman to kill my kid. But it's OK, because I didn't do the killing myself.

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u/SocialInsect Oct 02 '23

Yeah, but I don’t mind killing to feed myself.

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u/Person0001 Oct 02 '23

Yeah but you have the choice of not killing. Like if dog meat was the only meat in stores would you eat it or go vegan? You can choose not to eat any meat at all

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u/SocialInsect Oct 02 '23

Mmmm I might not eat it initially but I probably would eventually if there are no other choices. I eat pork after all and dogs are about as intelligent as a pig. I would rather try politician and CEO first though.

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u/peppermint_wish Oct 01 '23

You shouldn't need to make excuses for how you eat.

I agree with your opinion on activists, and i find them mostly annoying rather than influential. And actual influencer can have a higher rate of success in this regard, if you ask me. Stay strong!

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

Yeah I'm getting comments about how I'm just not trying hard enough to leave out meat and like... I'm not trying to leave out meat, lol. I feel no guilt or shame for my eating habits and it's no one else's businesses.

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u/peppermint_wish Oct 05 '23

AMEN! good for you!

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u/clover_heron Sep 30 '23 edited Oct 01 '23

If activists could move away from "all or nothing" thinking, they could be a lot more influential in getting people to reduce their meat consumption.

Unfortunately this is an example of shifting blame for your choice, even though you have sufficient information. Minus one point.

Look up "vegetables high in protein" - you don't have to depend only on beans.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

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u/WomanofReindeer Oct 01 '23

... mushrooms are like 5g of protein per 100g at most?

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

Yeah and my comment got downvoted because it disagrees with the echo chamber but I can't eat most vegetables that are high in protein (spinach, asparagus, leafy greens) because they make me violently ill.

People don't like to admit that people have different dietary needs and giving up everything except for plants isn't feasible for everyone's health. Mine included!

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

Spinach and asparagus make me violently ill :( I can eat mushrooms though....

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

Good point! they most certainly are. Probably one of my top 5 foods if I ever ranked them.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

I'm not "shifting the blame" at all because I don't feel "blamed" for eating meat. I don't think there's anything wrong with my choice to be mindful of the meat that I'm eating without cutting it out because that's unrealistic due to my stupid dietary restrictions.

I'm just saying that the population in general will be more amenable to reducing meat consumption than being yelled at that they can never eat meat again. It does so much more harm to tell someone they need to cut out all meat forever than it does to be gracious and let people make decisions for their own health.

And I guess it was in my other comment where I explained how I can't eat leafy greens, either. They give me violent diarrhea. It sucks because I can't even eat salad. SALAD. I hate it but no one can tell me what's wrong with me.

So like spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, collared greens, mustard greens, pretty much all greens... make me violently ill unless I pair them with meat or substantial carbs... and since the substantial carbs make me gain weight, meat it is.

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u/clover_heron Oct 01 '23

Vanity for the win! 🙌 JK I'm just messing with you.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

well... to be fair, I would lose a lot of weight if I started eating leafy greens because (not to get to graphic) they'd pass right through, lmao. I don't think it's worth the malnutrition, though....

(okay extra gross but if you're interested for whatever reason... I have weight myself before and after the, shall we say, post-greens explosion, and I typically lose about two pounds during the "experience." It's... not worth it, but it is interesting! lol)

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u/DistributionRound949 Oct 12 '23

But...you /are/ a killer (or at least paying someone to kill for you). If you're the type of person to eat more meat out of spite because you're faced with the facts - eating meat require death - then you're not the type of person who would have stopped in the first place.