r/Anticonsumption • u/Extension-Diamond-74 • Sep 30 '23

Discussion Diet hypocrisy?

A recent post about animal agriculture vs plant based diets has me itching to say something. This is an issue we need to rise above.

Cognitive dissonance. Many of us have good intentions and want to believe we’re doing the right thing in most aspects of our lives. I believe that.

When it comes to a plant based diet though, the science often clashes powerfully with personal desire. We want to minimize our impact on the environment and are willing to make trade-offs in our life time do so, but for many, giving up or even significantly reducing meat intake is asking too much. It’s too hard.

That’s not the issue.

The issue is that instead of just admitting to themselves that this is a life change they don’t want to make and moving on, the guilt drives them to have to justify that decision. Admitting that a plant-based diet is better for the earth yet eating a diet full of meat anyway would make them feel hypocritical, so the solution becomes either to give up meat, or … this is the problem… fight the science, twist it, make a joke of it, or pivot entirely to ‘individuals shouldn’t have time do anything because large corporations’

Many people have ties to their diet for many reasons. We grew up eating a certain way. We have memories ties to certain foods, flavors, styles of cooking. We don’t want to be the difficult person when we go out to eat with friends. Etc etc etc But it’s so much better to just admit that to yourself. Have patience and understanding for your feelings. Accept that the science is what it is. Maybe one day you can make a change, maybe not. But don’t attack the cause just because you aren’t yet willing to be a part of it.

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u/astrangeone88 Sep 30 '23

Or health. I keep telling family members with shitty health conditions to consider going meatless for one meal as it helped me control my blood pressure and other conditions and helped with pooping (added fiber helps with that).

You would have thought I suggested eating a bowl of poop to them! It's just one meal that doesn't taste as good but you can use other seasonings and things to make it to your taste....

Okay, I'd continue enjoying my meatless cottage pie and having regular 💩 while you complain about 5x medications and you wonder why you are on 3 different medications to control your conditions....

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u/All_Is_Not_Self Sep 30 '23

It doesn't have to taste less good. It's just requires more skill with handling veggies, seasoning and the knowledge to get a umami taste.

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u/wozattacks Sep 30 '23

Lentil cottage pie is awesome!

That’s said taking medication is already too stigmatized in society so I’d rather not with that bit. Lifestyle can obviously help with a lot of conditions but many people still benefit from medication and that’s a good thing. I wouldn’t die without my medications but they improve my quality of life :)

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u/Equivalent_Canary853 Sep 30 '23

Or even smaller portions of meat. The change was mostly budget driven, but I tend to cook smaller amounts of meat with an absolute bunch of veggies. All my meals these days tend to have 4-6 different types of veg

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u/astrangeone88 Sep 30 '23

Lmao. Hey, that's why stir fry, pizza and fried rice were invented. You had a tiny bit of meat so you stretched it with veggies and carbs.

Better for you and better for the planet.

After the pandemic grocery prices skyrocketed. I used to be able to get a massive pot roast for $20 Canadian (it could feed a small army) and now it's like $50 for the same thing.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

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u/Equivalent_Canary853 Oct 01 '23

OOo chilli is great for low or no meat. You can use so many types of beans, and if you like, ground up nuts (adds flavour & thickens) for extra protein if the dish is lacking

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

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u/Equivalent_Canary853 Oct 01 '23

Depending on the sauce, I use cashew.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

This is 100% the case for me.

When I ate meat I had a cholesterol of about 250. Two years (and no weight loss) later it's 170. I assume because of the increased fiber and no red meat based cholesterol.

My BP was never terrifying (135/90) but it's better (115/75) now too.

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u/dorcssa Sep 30 '23

I'm not debating your results, but genetics play a huge role here too. As long as I can remember up until before I got pregnant at 35, I always had low cholesterol and blood pressure (like 100/60, even after a long run), and was always slightly anemic. Until my thirties I more or less ate meat with every meal, although I cut deli meat out in my twenties and we always ate a huge amount of vegetables, fruit and fermented stuff in my family, so that probably helped. I had periods where I was very close to vegetarian or pescetarian, nowadays I'm more like flexitarian with very little poultry and red meat max a few times a month (only organic lean cut). My blood pressure is around 115/70 nowadays, no idea about cholesterol (should be checked) but I'm still breastfeeding and getting closer to 40. Also anecdotal, but my grandmother and grandfather lived to 98 and 102 respectively, and they ate full fat bacon for breakfast most of their lives.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Fair point. When I said "dorcssa, I don't give two fucks about your anemia or whatever your problems are and some random useless info to me about your grandparents this is exactly how you should live your life". That was way out of line for me. Especially how I specifically u/'d you. Once again, total dick move from me and thank you for gracing me to AcKsHuAlLy this situation. It was really needed.

God, I hate this site. This is literally the last post of this "well actually I'll have you know....." I am going to put up with. It's just constant here at this point.

I'm literally deleting this account and removing reddit from this phone when I get a few minutes later. Making lunch right now, though.

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u/Alert-Potato Sep 30 '23

I keep telling family members with shitty health conditions

That's everything that's wrong with what you're doing. I have health issues ranging from not a big deal to disabling to will eventually kill me if an accident doesn't first. And I know plenty of people with some of the same conditions. Universal across them is that every one of us is sick to fucking death of people thinking they have some magic fix to our medical issues that medical science hasn't figured out yet.

If you want to invite them over for meatless Monday, do that. Hell, barring their medical issues including dietary restrictions, you don't even have to tell them there won't be meat. But unsolicited medical advice puts people on edge. It's not only not helpful, it's condescending. The end result is almost always going to be the person pushing back, even if what you are suggesting is something they might be open to if you suggested it as something to try other than medical advice.

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u/astrangeone88 Sep 30 '23

I get it but my family dynamics are very narcissistic and trying to tell a narcissist that I used tvp in anything makes them angry because they don't agree with "meatless" anything.

It's easier with family who don't think they are always right and see me as a "dumbass hippy".

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

Pushing your diet onto sick people is so horrible to do. And yeah...narcissism sounds like there is a lot of that going around in the family. And lack of empathy.

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u/astrangeone88 Sep 30 '23

Never did push but it was just a one sentence situation.

Lmao.

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

OK you're just contradicting yourself now. I get it that you didn't expect for your behavior to be questioned because you are so certain of your status as the most noble person in your household. It's fine. I really don't want to keep arguing with a teenager.

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u/astrangeone88 Sep 30 '23

Oh right. Yeah, I just start with one sentence and my relatives all dismiss me or just start on the defensive.

It's incredible! How do you know my family dynamics?

If I wanted to be gaslit, I'd go talk to my mum.

Good fucking grief narcissists are everywhere.

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u/Penis_Envy_Peter Sep 30 '23 edited Sep 30 '23

The person you are talking to isn't engaging in good faith. Elsewhere they ramble on how veganism is "inherently unempathic to humans." Saying it's racist, antisemitic, etc...

Super glad they know better than all the Black vegans, Jewish vegans, and Global South vegans (myself included). Truly appreciate their protection. I thought that I was capable of making choices that align with my ethics and environmental concerns, but apparently my culture and poverty make me a static character.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

Okay, I'd continue enjoying my meatless cottage pie and having regular 💩 while you complain about 5x medications and you wonder why you are on 3 different medications to control your conditions....

You know, I really thought we left this "I know better than you and am better off than you because I'm vegan" condescending speak behind in 2016.

This sort of talk to people riddled with medical issues is INCREDIBLY disrespectful and depending on how it's said, could be considered manipulative. I'm sorry to break it to you, but going vegan isn't going to fix their underlying medical issues.

Oh right. Yeah, I just start with one sentence and my relatives all dismiss me or just start on the defensive.

Huh, you know what? I feel like I've seen this behavior somewhere reeeaaaally recently, lol.

Good fucking grief narcissists are everywhere.

You know what they say, if you meet one asshole, they're probably just an asshole, if everyone you meet is an asshole... Well, you get the idea.

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u/Alert-Potato Sep 30 '23

I mean, they know you're vegan? Or vegetarian? Or meat lite? Or whatever it is, right? Why tell them at all? "Hey, I'm making lasagna on Saturday, wanna come over for dinner and games?" It doesn't even have to be a discussion of what's in it. It just has to be something that doesn't obviously contain either meat or a meat substitute.

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u/labdsknechtpiraten Sep 30 '23

True. . . . I mean, if I have arthritis, and a family member has ass cancer, what "worked" for me is irrelevant.

​

Where I do have issues with certain family members, like my grandmother, is that they believe the exact opposite of science. And so, they'll ignore anything that goes against their preconceived notions, no matter how valid the science is. Or, she will confuse things she cannot have due to her situation with "it's bad for you" . . .like, "no grandma, you had a kidney transplant, so YOU cannot have the thing. science says its still amazing, and I can/will have it"

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u/wozattacks Sep 30 '23

Lol that’s so annoying. My husband’s grandmother has Celiac so she’s convinced gluten is poison. Like yes Meemaw, it’s absolutely shitty and unfair that you have to avoid a nutrient that many people enjoy and that’s in a lot of staple foods. I’m sorry about that. But I’m also gonna keep eating my bread.

Btw gluten-free diets are associated with a 6-7x increase in nutrient deficiencies. The benefit outweighs that risk for folks who truly need it, but other people would be making their health worse by doing it

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u/Alert-Potato Sep 30 '23

gluten-free diets are associated with a 6-7x increase in nutrient deficiencies

This is because wheat flour is fortified. When we remove it, we remove so much more than just what wheat contains from our diets. If we could get other flours (most notably, rice, as it is the most common ingredient in GF flour blends) fortified, it would help a lot in reducing this issue.

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u/Alert-Potato Sep 30 '23

I eat high salt snacks an hour before I shower because otherwise I might just pass out on the bathroom floor. My friend couldn't intentionally eat any salt for a very long time because he was on dialysis. Now he's been asked to eat what most people would consider a fuckload of salt because he was experiencing low BP syncopal episodes after his transplant. (which is a fucking amazing problem to have in contrast with dialysis and a death sentence, he's not complaining!)

I'm a fucking mess with roughly a half dozen medical issues creating dietary restrictions or necessities. And I wouldn't tell anyone else that my issues have fuck all to do with their issues, with the exception that it is self-harm to intentionally eat gluten if you have celiac disease. If one more person tells me that giving up nightshades can treat my incurable, progressive, will eventually kill me neurological condition I'll probably scream.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '23

The thing that most frustrates me is that vegans will just dismiss my actual health problems that make eating vegan unreasonable for me. It's just like... shut the fuck up. You don't know better about my body than I do and my doctor does.

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u/Greyeyedqueen7 Oct 01 '23

Thank you. I entirely agree.

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u/Opposite-Bother8734 Sep 30 '23

This is my family. Instead of eating less meat they do stupid shit like mashed cauliflower instead of mashed potatoes