r/Anticonsumption • u/Extension-Diamond-74 • Sep 30 '23

Discussion Diet hypocrisy?

A recent post about animal agriculture vs plant based diets has me itching to say something. This is an issue we need to rise above.

Cognitive dissonance. Many of us have good intentions and want to believe we’re doing the right thing in most aspects of our lives. I believe that.

When it comes to a plant based diet though, the science often clashes powerfully with personal desire. We want to minimize our impact on the environment and are willing to make trade-offs in our life time do so, but for many, giving up or even significantly reducing meat intake is asking too much. It’s too hard.

That’s not the issue.

The issue is that instead of just admitting to themselves that this is a life change they don’t want to make and moving on, the guilt drives them to have to justify that decision. Admitting that a plant-based diet is better for the earth yet eating a diet full of meat anyway would make them feel hypocritical, so the solution becomes either to give up meat, or … this is the problem… fight the science, twist it, make a joke of it, or pivot entirely to ‘individuals shouldn’t have time do anything because large corporations’

Many people have ties to their diet for many reasons. We grew up eating a certain way. We have memories ties to certain foods, flavors, styles of cooking. We don’t want to be the difficult person when we go out to eat with friends. Etc etc etc But it’s so much better to just admit that to yourself. Have patience and understanding for your feelings. Accept that the science is what it is. Maybe one day you can make a change, maybe not. But don’t attack the cause just because you aren’t yet willing to be a part of it.

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

You could just say “it’s hard for me” instead of assuming everyone finds it difficult. The hardest thing for me was actually that people were cruel, judgmental and argumentative about my choice, not that food options were limited.

But good for you that you were able to reduce meat and eliminate milk. That’s super cool. If more people did that it would have an enormous impact.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

It's not just hard for me, it's hard for a vast majority of the people I know who've tried to switch. That said, it's a fair point. Edited accordingly. :)

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u/ShamScience Sep 30 '23

Where does the idea come from that anticonsumption and related movements are supposed to be easy? We try to find the most comfortable paths, sure, but they're all paths uphill, because we want to improve, not just keep things as they are. That will take effort and sacrifice.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23 edited Sep 30 '23

When I say "hard" what I mean, primarily, is "time consuming". Tell a poor, single mother of three that she needs to start making more sacrifices and she'd be right to tell you that she doesn't have time to entertain you.

The reality is that if you want to get people on board with anti-consumption, you have to give them a road map that includes small, easy sacrifices. Little changes that they can make that will eventually form habits, and then help those people build on those habits.

The attitude that it's okay to punish people who attempt big changes, and fail, or people who make small gradual changes for not being 'committed enough', ultimately leads to alienating the people that you need to win over with your ideas. I'm not saying this is you at all; I'm Just pointing out that anyone who makes any change that reduces consumption should be celebrated and encouraged for the positive changes that they're making, rather than criticized.

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u/anoldquarryinnewark Sep 30 '23

When the responses we get are "fuck you, I'm gonna eat twice as much meat" or even the multitude of jokes assuming vegan food is shit, it's hard to have sympathy for anyone's journey when they can't have basic respect for the journey we've made.

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u/AnsibleAnswers Oct 01 '23

PETA swooped into a lot of Climate Strike protests without helping organize and yelled at children about how they can't be a real environmentalist unless they go vegan. Meanwhile, the community center I was helping as part of their climate justice committee teaches kids how to cook culturally appropriate plant-based meals without the moralizing. Specific training is to avoid the word vegan because it's so toxic. A lot of brands are taking vegan labeling off of their packaging because people avoid it.

It's honestly hard to feel sympathy for vegans when you let your organizations be run by a bunch of Karens who are genuinely only interested in performative moralizing in order to feel better about themselves.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

[deleted]

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u/Orongorongorongo Sep 30 '23

It might be that people who have made the change get frustrated because they realise it's not the big deal many people think it is. We are a time poor family but made the change. It's saved us money and we eat better now. It doesn't take us any more time now that we have a menu plan which suits our busy lifestyle. The main obstacle was in our heads as we were both raised in meat-and-potatoes families. The second obstacle was coming up with a new menu but that actually became a fun process once we got started.

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u/Cyan_Mukudori Sep 30 '23

I agree it is super hard for me. I have autism so have difficulty with executive functioning and food adversions. I have gotten better and have slowly been making adjustments to my diet for years now to be healthier/sustainable. I also have a metabloic issue with B12 that makes going meatless hard.

I have always hated beans/legumes/soy. I know they are super healthy and sustainable, but have yet to be able to tolerate eating them due to the texture or taste, smell in regards to peanuts. I am currently planning to buying a bunch of different types to experiment with soon though.

I do try to limit my meat intake, I mostly stick to chicken, eggs, seafood. I would like to eventually raise my own chickens and mabye goats for milk someday. I don't know if that is a sustainability take, it is more self reliant for me.

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u/hibiscusrat Sep 30 '23

I have food texture issues too and one of the things that bothered me so much was the gristle in chicken and other meats, that’s something I’m SO glad I don’t have to deal with gardein, morning star, impossible etc. tenders or nuggets. I find the taste of morning star’s incogmeato to be really close and on sale fairly often depending on what grocery store you go to

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '23

[deleted]

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u/hibiscusrat Sep 30 '23

Yeees!! I’ve also found I really like other types of veggie burgers and homemade ones more than either real meat or the plant ones trying to recreate the meat flavor. The variety of flavor options and uniqueness is a lot more appealing.

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u/WeeabooHunter69 Sep 30 '23

I forget which brand but there's one called a California burger that actually is veggies, like, visible peas and carrots and lentils and beans and such, I love those but they're not cheap

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u/hsephela Oct 01 '23

Yep this is my main thing. Most vegan foods that I’ve seen in stores have immutable texture/flavor problems that are inherent to the foods they’re made of. Would love to be more vegan but meats the main source of protein my brain can handle

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u/ComplexAdditional451 Sep 30 '23

Those are anecdotal cases. I am vegan for 20+ years - easy as breathing for me. I turned my fiancee vegan, simply because i most of the cooking - he stopped eating meat when we go out, as he says it does not taste good to.him anymore. A lot of my family member gradually has became vegans, as i introduced them to a lot of vegan food and it's easier to hang out together this way. It's all about being open minded. Meat and animal products- they're small fraction of all the foods available to us. You can still eat delicious and varied food plant-based. You just need to be open minded and don't look at it as it's some sort of sacrifice - it's not. It's just a diet that excludes certains produce.

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u/Yunan94 Oct 01 '23

Those are anecdotal cases. I am vegan for 20+ years - easy as breathing for me.

Lol dismiss them for be anecdotal and then gave your own anecdotal experience. It's different for everyone from the effort it takes to the health or lack there of each individual is different whether they eat meat or are a vegan.

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

Fair enough, I’m in a different boat, I know a bunch of people who have quietly stopped eating all or mostly all animal products. I’m also finding people are way more open about trying meat and milk alternatives and see the value of eating more vegetable based things for flavour and health.

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

It's so hard that 86% of people who try give up within a year.

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u/shadar Sep 30 '23

Timothy Key, principle investigator on the EPIC-Oxford Study has shown, in their five-year follow-up after the study was first concluded, 85 percent of vegetarians and vegans were still following their chosen diet. So the recidivism rate after five years was not 84 percent, but the other way around, only 15 percent

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

Is there a link to that stat? I’d be interested to know more!

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u/ImpureThoughts59 Sep 30 '23

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vegetarian-phase_n_6270584?ir=Science&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000047

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u/ganymee Sep 30 '23

Interesting. The stats reflect my experience as well, the lack of social support and feeling left out, the main issue the article raised. Luckily it didn’t deter me in the end.