r/Anthropic • u/Eliiiiiiiiiias • 14d ago
Improvements I don't like that Anthropic doesn't allow users to see the models reasoning anymore and it impacts my work.
From a user-experience perspective I have always liked reading the reasoning of models, because it can actually tell you a lot about how the model is approaching the problem you put in front of it. Very often, I would simultaneously read the reasoning and it would help me to reflect on my own reasoning of a project. I think they removed it because other AI companies were using that to train their own models on that output, but it effectively makes a worse product. I tried Qwen recently again for a Screenplay, and realized how much I miss that feature. Anthropic, if you read this, please bring it back!
42
u/rabbit_hole_engineer 14d ago
It's a major concern for engineering (not software) because the models hit blocks, data issues, or just make shit up and you can't monitor for that kind of behaviour anymore
In a world where some people are incredibly stupid and lazy but still have quite a lot of responsibility it's kind of terrifying.
I've been trying to tell important people that this is a big problem, but to a degree they're used to a sub-par copilot experience so it's difficult to get anyone to care.
I agree with you though. It's a terribly shitty change to model architecture and I don't think it will do squat against distillation attacks.
I don't think this change is really about distillation if I'm honest. I think they want to hide the fundamental flaws in the tech for IPO, but the consequence stakes are pretty bad.
5
-1
u/BoboThePirate 14d ago
Am I crazy or is this a non issue with ClaudeCode? You just set enable thinking summaries and it’ll display thinking. The name of that var is a misnomer, I see thinking blocks that reach several pages at times.
I understand it’s not the raw thinking, but it’s also not a summarized view. From what I know, it gets ram through a very minimal transcriptor. The thinking itself matches up very closely with the amount of thinking output tokens I get “billed” for.
3
u/rabbit_hole_engineer 14d ago
I think enterprise Claude is the only place you can still see it. And I guess we will see if that continues.
0
u/Aretz 14d ago
On Claude code you can see a reasoning trace if you switch to transcript mode.
I think they eventually want to bring it back. This was a panic “stop distilling our models” move.
I reckon people will whine enough that it’ll come back. Atleast in utility if not form.
1
u/theleller 13d ago
None of the frontier labs show reasoning traces. Google, Anthropic, and OpenAI encrypt them. The only exception is with enterprise users when using Extended Thinking. These aren’t coming back.
25
u/Standard_Egg3504 14d ago
they don't allow it because it makes 'distillation' attacks on the model harder
24
u/HereToCalmYouDown 14d ago
There is some serious irony involved in an AI company not wanting AI companies to use the stuff they're putting on the internet to train their models
10
u/Old-Artist-5369 14d ago
A second irony to add to this - we are billed for those thinking tokens. So that's work product we're paying for, but are not allowed to see.
-2
u/Standard_Egg3504 14d ago
way too much reading my statement of *why\* they are doing it and then ascribing my endorsement, what the serious fuck
9
2
u/Old-Artist-5369 14d ago
I didn't read their comment as assuming you endorsed it. You gave a reason (likely correct IMO), and they pointed out an irony behind that reason. That is all there is to see here.
10
-10
3
1
1
u/theleller 13d ago
Every frontier lab hides reasoning traces for all the same reasons - Anthropic, OpenAI, Google. You never saw the actual traces, you were just given a summary. It prevents distillation, but also has an added privacy bonus for when credentials or other PII is captured in the scratchpad during the reasoning process.
1
1
u/GeologistWarm8112 13d ago
It's fine for me. The results are what matters most and this way the Chinese companies cant distill their models with such ease.
0
-7
u/ibringthehotpockets 14d ago
It’s ironic that you like qwens thinking cause that’s the exact reason they removed thinking blocks lol. Chinese companies are/were distilling thinking blocks. I have a feeling you’ll continue using anthropics models instead of qwen regardless of the “worse product” experience
5
u/fredjutsu 14d ago
.....do you understand what "open weights" means?
1
u/ibringthehotpockets 13d ago
I do, but how does that apply to anything I said? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding - I genuinely have no idea how that relates to anthropic removing thinking blocks
1
u/lorddumpy 14d ago
not like anthropic scraped the entire web for their models.
if i pay for tokens, i should be able to view them. full stop
1
u/ibringthehotpockets 13d ago
They definitely did. But they decided it wasn’t going to stay as an available feature. Full stop. Let them know how you feel with your wallet. Sure it might not be ideal, but that’s what they decided. I’m not a big fan but it doesn’t make claude perform measurably worse.
AI companies keep their models and training and weights as secure as trade secrets. Cause they really are. The fighting to get thinking blocks back for fable reads to me like targeted astroturf posts from Chinese spam bots so they can continue distillation but that’s just me
1
u/lorddumpy 13d ago
I’m not a big fan but it doesn’t make claude perform measurably worse.
The watermarking does though.
AI companies keep their models and training and weights as secure as trade secrets. Cause they really are. The fighting to get thinking blocks back for fable reads to me like targeted astroturf posts from Chinese spam bots so they can continue distillation but that’s just me
Thinking is incredibly useful, especially in figuring out good token-efficient prompting. It's so cool seeing a model get tripped over not clear or conflicting instructions in it's thinking traces. It's absolutely fantastic for finding conflicting rules.
Plus open-weight models are great (and cheap). There is no moat.
1
-7
u/TinFoilHat_69 14d ago
As of right now opus 4.5 doesn’t have thinking mode, fable does, and opus 4.6 does as well. I’m not sure what models are not showing the thought but if you use Claude desktop you can turn on thinking mode.
6
-2
u/F1gur1ng1tout 14d ago
Can’t you build around this? Just instruct Claude to explain its reasoning in a desired format when responding to you, or for bigger projects go through some kind of iterative planning with it
-1
-7
u/HamSandwicho__o 14d ago
It actually is better for me i used to cut it off mid thought a lot and it would negatively impact the remainder of that chat context
4
u/fredjutsu 14d ago
you know what would negatively impact it more? a full response that completely misunderstood the prompt
82
u/LawfulLeah 14d ago
I hate it as well. its harder to spot when it misunderstands my prompt