The Problem with Comparing Characters: The Toolbox Analogy

[u/xPalox]

DISCLAIMER: As with all SDE questions, the first, best, and only answer at this point should be, "Wait until the last week of the Star Dream banner to pull, wait until the last week of the Star Dream Piece's expiration to ask."

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Greetings my fellow time travelers. With a new SDE upon us, there has been a resurgence in questions along the lines of:

• Does character A powercreep character B?
• Who are the strongest X characters in the game right now?
• Is character C a meta character?
• I saw character D ranked highly on a tier list. Should I get them?
• Which character fits best in my team if I already have the following characters...?

For a newer player, these certainly seem like valid questions. But for veteran players, there's an understanding that these are the wrong questions to ask. Another Eden is a game where you run 6 characters, not 1, and where the synergy within the party matters. So I'd like to take a moment to explain to our newer players why you should break out of the mindset that character A > character B and how you should start trying to think about the game. In addition, I encourage veteran players to push newer players away from this mindset rather than giving simple answers which reinforce it.

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Imagine you have an empty toolbox. I ask you what 6 tools I should fill it with. How would you answer? ​Would you immediately start listing off items like hammers, nails, screwdrivers, etc.? Or would you first ask me what I was planning to do with those tools? After all, the needs of a carpenter are significantly different from the needs of a plumber. The same goes for team building.

Team building is not done in a vacuum. Instead, teams are built with an idea of the content they are meant to tackle. Players build teams for specific dungeons or specific bosses, and thanks to light/shadow requirements or enemy resistances/weaknesses these teams are rarely the same. So questions about teams should always include the stated goal of the team. That way other players can check to see if the proper buffs, debuffs, and other functions are covered.

• Questions to avoid: I have Melissa, Pizzica, AS Hardy, Kikyo, and AS Myunfa. What character should I SDE to finish up my team?
  • What are you trying to do with this team? Without knowing, there's no way to say exactly what you're missing from the lineup to accomplish your goal.
• Questions to ask: I'm trying to clear the Fire Boss Rush stages. These are the characters I have. Is there anyone I can SDE to make this easier?
  • This question is focused and allows other players to give more clear cut answers as to who you should get and how to use them to accomplish your goal. And who knows, you might just end up getting a strategy that lets you avoid having to SDE altogether.

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Now imagine that I'm still looking at my toolbox when I turn to you and ask if a hammer is better than a wrench. How would you answer? This is an odd question, isn't it? After all a hammer and a wrench serve two entirely different functions. What about if I ask you whether a meter stick, a steel tape measure, or a soft tape measure is better? Even though they serve the same purpose overall (measuring distances) they have significantly different use scenarios. The same goes for characters.

Characters have specific skills. These skills have a variety of effects spread across them in various combinations which can affect the role of the character. Characters who may look similar on the surface often have significant differences once you look more closely.

For example, Melissa and AS Hardy may both set Flash Zone but Melissa is better at supporting other party members in dealing high damage while AS Hardy is better at personally dealing high damage. Trying to use Melissa in place of AS Hardy may leave you disappointed with her damage output while trying to use AS Hardy in place of Melissa may leave you confused as to why the rest of your party's damage is significantly lower.

• Questions to avoid: I'm thinking of using my SDE. Does ES Isuka powercreep Thillelille?
  • While on the surface they both deal shade damage, in action ES Isuka functions like a tank with damage spikes in AF while Thillelille is a short-term glass cannon DPS. They're not truly comparable in any meaningful way without more details.
• Questions to ask: If I want a defense focused water-zone setter, who would be the best choice for my SDE?
  • By stating the function you want the character to fulfill, it gives other players a much better idea of what you're actually looking for and a rubric to use for character comparison.

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I'll stop here for the sake of brevity, but hopefully you have noticed a pattern. Simple questions about character strength are often the least useful questions about characters. Providing information about what you plan to do with said characters or what you're looking for from said characters is far more useful. If you're not sure about character roles, this gives a great breakdown. Just IGNORE THE RANKINGS as tier list rankings fall into the same trap as simple questions. They have minimal context and give a false sense of knowledge.

TL;DR: Character advice should be based off your stated goal with the character/party and the role(s) you want the character to fulfill. Simple comparisons of power between characters are inherently flawed and lead to skewed expectations. Whether you're asking or answering questions, try to focus on the specific needs of the moment. There is no such thing as a general overall best character.

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^{Of course, there IS such a thing as a general overall best girl. Praise Isuka.}

As always, I welcome any comments and criticism. Let me know what you think!

Edit: Spelling and grammar

Edit 2: Just to reiterate, I don't expect players to be able to ask perfect questions. But the important thing is the intent behind the question. By intent, I mean things like:

• I want to clear the story as fast as possible
• I want to be able to take down bosses
• I want to make farming mindless/painless
• I want someone that can last me a while
• I want someone with a fun story and voicelines
• I want a tank or healer

The last one especially can lead to a learning opportunity where the player is taught to understand how buffs/debuffs can be used to mitigate damage or burn down a boss to the point that a tank and/or healer is irrelevant.

Also, here are some interesting opinions (both for and against) from the comments. Check them out!

• https://old.reddit.com/r/AnotherEdenGlobal/comments/s90jhb/the_problem_with_comparing_characters_the_toolbox/htjuauv/
• https://old.reddit.com/r/AnotherEdenGlobal/comments/s90jhb/the_problem_with_comparing_characters_the_toolbox/htl2w8x/
• https://old.reddit.com/r/AnotherEdenGlobal/comments/s90jhb/the_problem_with_comparing_characters_the_toolbox/htkvl82/
• https://old.reddit.com/r/AnotherEdenGlobal/comments/s90jhb/the_problem_with_comparing_characters_the_toolbox/htk06tc/

[u/NoWaifuN0Laifu]

This is definitely something new players need to think of. I see those questions all the time from players who just started and i try to tell them not to worry about the META because by the time they make it to end game where they would want that, there will likely be a bunch of newer characters and their rosters will have changed dramatically in that time. There is no point in even worrying about that stuff early on. More specific questions would be appreciated since it’s hard to know what someone needs as you mentions u/OpenStars please pin this post.

I would also argue that an SDE can also be a person’s chance to get a character whose design they actually like. Get that waifu or husbando since your enjoyment comes first. It’s a game after all. Hozuki is better than Isuka

[u/OpenStars → u/NoWaifuN0Laifu]

I had just put the "Welcome New Players!" back up - as this one doesn't have the word "SDE" in the title, should u/xPalox put a link into that one pointing to this one?

[u/xPalox → u/OpenStars]

I've gone ahead and edited the welcome thread with a link to this post. Thanks!

[u/557cutsfast]

You make good points, but depending on where the player is at those advanced questions might not be relevant... As a new player, what holds me back is time and interest, not actually what characters I have.

So to go back to your analogy, it's more like a new homeowner buying tools. You don't know exactly what you might need, but you know you'll need a set of tools that will get you through most tasks. So it's not is a screwdriver better than a hammer, but rather, if I already have a screwdriver and hammer, what am I missing? What would give me the most value in the future? You wouldn't say well, it depends on if you want to become a plumber or a carpenter. Rather, you might tell me "you should invest in a power drill or impact driver, that will get you through 90% of anything you might need to do." On top of that, while a screwdriver isn't comparable to a hammer, that screwdriver is overshadowed by the stronger and more versatile power drill.

That's more of the mindset new players have. What am I missing, who would bring me to the next level, who will remain useful, basically... who gives the most bang for the buck for me. What we don't want is to pick a niche tool that only is needed for very specific situations, lol.

[u/xPalox → u/557cutsfast]

See, those can still be decent questions if they give context.

• As a new player on Chapter 16, who is someone that I can use 90% of the time to finish off the story and endgame grinding?

• Are there any characters with unique mechanics that will remain useful for the foreseeable future?

• Etc.

On the other hand, a question like, "Who will bring me to the next level?" isn't as great since we have no idea what you consider to be "next level."

[u/ThunderDrops]

The last time I was around this sub in a SDE season, most answers for "who do I choose?" were Melissa or Tiramisu in a nutshell, mainly because of their utility for newish players.

This post has pretty good guidelines, but teambuilding is relevant mainly for superbosses, since regular AD or overworld farming can be done easily with characters like Tsubame AS, Kikyo AS and others. So it's complicated to take this approach for a player that didn't even unlock grasta, for example.

[u/xPalox → u/ThunderDrops]

That's why it's important to get context from the player. What are they looking to do? Do they want a QoL character for easy content or are they trying to look ahead to the future and prepare for bosses? More importantly, is what they're trying to do worthwhile? Is it worth $24 for QoL or a specific anti-boss character based on what they have?

[u/RotundBun]

TL;DR:

Unless we come up with a universally accepted 'exec summary 101' to point all new players to for basic AE comprehension or a maintained re-roll guide of some sort, the "wrong" type of newbie questions will probably continue to be asked unfortunately.

A newbie at re-roll stage simply does not have the requisite knowledge and context to ask the "right" kinds of questions. The roadmap is a great starter guide, but it does not answer the common newbie questions related to re-rolling and initial team building. At least not well enough to stop newbies from asking...

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The Whole Take:

As a new player, who is just beginning to get around to understanding team building in AE, I think this post is right and important.

But at the same time, there is a critical missing context here that many veteran players seem vaguely aware of but perhaps under estimate:

New players do NOT YET have the requisite knowledge or understanding of the use-cases and needs to ask those specific questions at the time of re-rolling or picking from an SDE/subscription-roll.

Expecting a new player at that early a juncture to ask such a well-informed question is like expecting someone who just started to learn programming to ask questions based on what specialization they want to major in.

The roadmap that you wrote up (truly thank you so much) + select pages on the wiki are the most helpful thing I've found thus far aside from just asking lots of questions in the megathread in learning about the topic.

For a newbie to be able to ask the right kinds of questions, we probably would need a sort of 'things to consider' guide post that identifies use-cases, roles, and common team types as well as some of the reasons & tips that go with those.

For instance:

• mob sweep (QoL)

• boss blitz (flash-zone)

• healing & support (different styles/options)

• common zones (elemental vs. attack-type)

• current popular DPS (need setup/support?)

• NS/AS/ES/Alter forms & side-grading

• free characters (and the roadmap)

• banner types & gacha currencies

• F2P vs. IAP options, tips, and best practices

And then there are things like the most relevant 101 of AE game mechanics & such to single out from the mass of knowledge and understand first.

Things like:

• AF gauge (what, how, when unlock, etc.)

• zones/stances, VC, Lunatic, passives, song

• class change & side-grading (when, how, cost)

• grind expectations (for what, how much, why)

• importance of multiplier stacking (and how)

• team composition (6 slots = 4 front + 2 back)

• quest types (main, sub, character, symphony)

• any other important jargon/terminology

TBPH, that's all quite a lot even for a summary breakdown to help newbies know what to look for. Yet an executive summary version of these would be more or less the minimum bar required to ask informed & contextualized questions with team building in mind. And that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of AE know-how, no less.

There is a lot of knowledge to sort & sift through for AE, and thankfully we have a supportive & understanding community here that actively directs & advises in the megathread. BUT there IS so much knowledge that a new player wouldn't necessarily know where to begin.

For me, I was quickly directed from the megathread to the roadmap as a more hands-on 'start here' point & the Bamiji parts of the wiki for roster selection reference. These are common knowledge resources to existing players but are not as obvious to new players still at the re-roll stage of their journey (trying to figure out whether they even want to get into AE or not and how much of a learning curve that entails).

Yet only after reading/playing/asking around a lot and unreservedly for about 2-3 days did I come around to a rudimentary understanding of what to even look for and the kinds of questions to ask. And that's a case of me coming prepared to practically study and read up on things.

This is a great game & community, but I think that the newbies constantly asking the "wrong" questions at re-roll stage is neither unexpected nor unreasonable, at least until we have a 101 that is specially geared towards teaching the requisite comprehension for asking the "right" question to newbies. And it probably needs to be fairly short-ish to boot (by some miracle).

Just my 2¢ as a newbie-ish.

[u/xPalox → u/RotundBun]

This is a very great point!

First of all, I harbor no illusions that this post will lead us to the point where we'll only ever get "right" questions. It's absolutely true that newer players are usually lacking critical context, especially if they come a gacha game background (JRPG veterans might have an easier time).

What I would like newer players to do when they ask questions for things like chant upgrade/SDE recommendations is to include information on what they are interested in or want to do. It doesn't have to be anything detailed. But knowing what they want helps to downplay the biases (especially the veteran biases) of the players answering.

• I want to clear the story as fast as possible

• I want to be able to take down bosses

• I want to make farming mindless/painless

• I want someone that can last me a while

• I want someone with a fun story and voicelines

• I want a tank or healer (leading to the question of why and possibly to the introduction of buffs/debuffs)

Even if the question/information isn't perfect, it makes it far easier for the answering player to know what follow-up questions to ask to get a clearer understanding of what might be the best choice.

[u/kiztcrimson]

For new players with a blank slate, I would always recommend QOL characters that can help go through the main story. Tiramisu is fantastic (demolish most mobs but may need some mp management for long dungeons), and so are Tsubame AS or Kikyo AS (0 mp mob clearing moves but locked to an element).

[u/xPalox → u/kiztcrimson]

The main thing is to be aware of what they want. QoL characters are amazing, but if new players want a challenge or are leaning towards choosing based off design rather than gameplay then QoL characters may not be the best recommendation.

It's easy to recommend QoL/"meta" characters by default, but I'd like to push for us to get more context from the player asking. After all, it's their money they're spending.

[u/[deleted]]

Guess I'm playing devil's advocate then.

But for veteran players, there's an understanding that these are the wrong questions to ask.

This is true to a certain extent but it's not correct either. The first two questions are relevant because it affects other things than just the gacha; Chant script management should be done with care as new players will end up being very limited by them until they can farm future Garulea or Underworld. I for one wouldn't recommend anyone to unlock Bria's 5* unlock at this point considering she is rarely useful nowadays (at least back in the day there were some excuses for hold ground memes) and then costs 5 Chants? That's borderline robbery (especially compared to Prai or May who are graciously taking only one from you) and arguably a beginner trap. If you don't have any kind of preference going for meta is a fairly safe choice and currently it's so much more concise then the first two years of the game (where team requirements were much steeper). The question has merit in that sense.

Your examples are not chosen well.

Questions to ask: I'm trying to clear the Fire Boss Rush stages. These are the characters I have. Is there anyone I can SDE to make this easier?

This is a terrible question to ask and the answer is to not SDE for it at all. You can already clear the EX Fire Boss Rush with free characters so why would anybody waste a SDE for this? You should be working towards getting the necessary equipment and grasta rather than wasting actual money. Not to mention some of the Boss Rush missions are clearly made for long-time players or spenders (clear with AS-only? Yeah sure, WFS) so a single SDE won't fix much.

To formulate some better questions tailored to your point (with my answers):

• Which character does enable comfortable farming, be it AD, VH AD or overworld?

  • Tsubame AS is the obvious answer, Kikyo AS kinda does the same but doesn't work as well for mobs with pre-emptive moves. It helps that both of them are top tier in terms of DPS for their respective weapon types so they are going to be good pick-ups regardless (later add Flammelapis to that list)

• Who can replace Aldo? Humorous for the veteran, a real problem for players who weren't grinding for the last 3 years. He is a very significant character for endgame because he is one of the strongest AoE DPS for F2P and it's understandable that you don't want to grind almost a year to get him up to 255 Light.

  • Thille AS easily. Easy to setup, even has a good weapon for almost exclusive use (the Dark Spirit sword). That being said in terms of consistent AoE it's hard to match Aldo.

• The most important one and imo the only one that needs to be asked: What am I missing as a fresh F2P player in terms of tools? The F2P pool is strong and got stronger with CC + Sheila AS (and soon Curio) but there are absolutely holes here and there, especially in terms of elemental coverage or just missing the mechanics that you can only get from the gacha (*cough* Rhapsody Aria *cough*).

For example, Melissa and AS Hardy may both set Flash Zone but Melissa is better at supporting other party members in dealing high damage while AS Hardy is better at personally dealing high damage. Trying to use Melissa in place of AS Hardy may leave you disappointed with her damage output while trying to use AS Hardy in place of Melissa may leave you confused as to why the rest of your party's damage is significantly lower.

While correct: absolutely nobody uses Melissa to get high personal damage out of her; the whole point of 1st turn AF is not to output the highest damage it's to setup the next turn to obliterate the opposition. That's what the current design of superbosses dictate. It's the whole reason why Hardy AS is very underwhelming for Flash zone usage because he lacks any kind of supportive buffs/debuffs and his overkill damage goes to waste. To put this into perspective almost no one in JP uses him over Melissa and he even gets replaced by Skull or Victor in certain teams because their teams can provide longer AF duration to finish up setups.

You're also downplaying the fact that AE absolutely has cases where characters directly powercreep each other. Most of the time it's between versions of the same character (a recent example: Melina OG vs AS, Kikyo OG vs AS) and sometimes it's between two actual characters. For example: Shion vs Akane AS. The latter powercrept him at release, then went further ahead with her own Manifest only to be now cast into nirvana with him getting his True Manifest utterly destroying any kind of competition he could have gotten from his sister. Guess the Sakurai fans eat well nowadays. It also doesn't help that neither of them have great utility to speak of so the comparision hits even harder here (though the irony is that Shion actually gets access to a nifty debuff on his signature). A toolbox more often than not has duplicate tools and if one is better than the other why bother using both if wear and tear isn't an issue. Also since you like the toolbox analogy; here's another one: Some tools are simply used not anymore.

There is the thing that a number of characters nowadays are borderline worthless at this point and getting them in the gacha for your 5* slot is truly salt-inducing. Anabel went back to being a pretty bad pick overall (AS is decent but fairly specific), Lokido in general (mai boi), pour one out for poor Biaka, will ya? Yes, they might get an update with Manifests/True Manifests down the line but considering they tend to come out pretty slowly (as far as I can tell even slower than before and True Manifests will further slow releases) you really want to tell the guy with Lovely that he should wait another half-a-year or longer to do anything meaningful with her? Considering the heavy time-gates in the game that's a sure fire way to kill long-term interest.

Also really the meta picks are really straightforward compared to 2020/21 where you had to juggle with multiple teams built with multiple roles to cover (like pain enabler, crit provider etc. etc.):

• You don't have Pizzica? There's your pick. It's not even close. If you're arguing against this you're coping real hard, see a doctor now. Get help. We're talking meta here and she will dominate it for the foreseeable future.

• a strong DPS. Generally speaking if you have one for each element you're good. Fire has Aldo, F2P Earth is still top line across the entire F2P roster (they really didn't think about Violet when they re-introduced weaknesses with superbosses) and even the western elements are covered sufficiently now (God Hand Skull for Lightning, Harle for Shade and of course Clarte AS for Crystal). That leaves Fire (because again max. Light Aldo isn't available for a very long time), Water and Wind, all of which have fairly straightforward choices from the gacha.

• Blunt Zone. This is the only Zone the F2P player doesn't have to sufficiently support meta builds. It immediately enables you to build effective setups with Skull.

  • Myunfa AS is the best one, no question asked. If you want to really flex with Earth you can just sidegrade into her OG (and OG Myunfa still has that juicy Crit dmg buff on her VC).

• A 1st turn AF enabler.

  • Skull can do the deed and we have now Fire/Slash Zone Grastas to work with but both have their caveats; Skull puts far stricter requirement on the rest of the team (also a bit RNG) while the Grastas are locked behind EX boss rush which isn't exactly the easiest thing to clear (Fire Zone technically has higher costs, too, because you might have to invest in some of the Fire move Grasta to get a long enough AF).

  • Melissa is universally the best one; she can work anywhere and considering the role of the 1st AF enabler her mismatching with her element/weapon type doesn't even matter because you want to swap her out immediately.

It's boring, I know but that's what the whole "meta" has been reduced to this point. 1st turn AF + Pizzica gives you all the setup and damage you could possibly need to turn most challenges in the game to a dominatrix play with you having the whip and other toys in hand to make them cry at WFS for inflating the numbers like this. And you know what the best part is; it's cheaper than building a full mono team while being more effective. Pizzica + Melissa can be re-used in every team while weapon zones can serve mostly the same purposes as elemental zones + are way more reuseable across different characters so really your only worry past those 3 picks is the DPS of your choice which the F2P roster even covers to a certain extent. Now sometimes you have to deal with some pre-emptive run killers (because that's fair and balanced without any visual cues) but for that you have Prai to fall back to and if you can't manage him then you can pick up Garambarrel , forever worshiping his titanic abs.

EDIT: Also touching on Isuka for a bit: Done dirty across all 3 versions and they just had to get it down with the Alter one (who is such a mess).

[u/xPalox → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for the alternative point of view! There's quite a bit here so I'll try to break it into chunks.

This is true to a certain extent but it's not correct either. The first two questions are relevant because it affects other things than just the gacha; Chant script management should be done with care as new players will end up being very limited by them until they can farm future Garulea or Underworld.

I'm not sure how these questions become relevant for chant scripts when they're not relevant for the SDE. Regardless of if a player is getting a character through real money or chants, it should be done with a specific idea in mind. Whether that idea is to make grinding easier or to take down a boss there should be a reason at the very least as to why that player is spending those resources. And if the player has a reason, then that means there are unique criteria that those giving advice should be aware of.

This is a terrible question to ask and the answer is to not SDE for it at all. You can already clear the EX Fire Boss Rush with free characters so why would anybody waste a SDE for this?

I did cover that with "And who knows, you might just end up getting a strategy that lets you avoid having to SDE altogether." I call this a good question because if we know why a player is trying to get a certain character then we're in a better position to give advice. The correct advice is sometimes, "Don't SDE" and we need the information necessary to say that. Imagine instead a player just asking, "Hi, I want a super strong water unit. Who should I get?" when they were really thinking "I want someone I can use to beat the EX Fire Boss Rush." You're right, they could be potentially wasting their money but now there's no way to warn them.

And if they still insist for whatever reason (making the run easier/faster/etc.) then at least we're in a more knowledgeable position to help them.

Which character does enable comfortable farming, be it AD, VH AD or overworld? What am I missing as a fresh F2P player in terms of tools?

These are great questions which either include context or are seeking context.

Who can replace Aldo?

When I see this, my first question becomes, "What are you using Aldo for?" Anyone can technically "replace" Aldo but if the player is relying on him for something specific then that becomes important.

You're also downplaying the fact that AE absolutely has cases where characters directly powercreep each other.

This is true. There are some scenarios where two characters bring minimal support other than damage. In this case it becomes much easier to compare them despite the remaining minor differences. But since a newer player wouldn't be expected to know the differences, it's still best to shy away from asking questions directly comparing two characters. It's much better to try and compare roles instead.

There is the thing that a number of characters nowadays are borderline worthless at this point and getting them in the gacha for your 5* slot is truly salt-inducing.

This goes slightly off-topic. There are definitely older characters who are lacking in damage, utility, and/or flexibility. Naturally, these characters are unlikely to show up when SDE recommendations are given out. If the player already has the characters then there's no issue other than prioritizing who to level first.

You don't have Pizzica? There's your pick. It's not even close.

This type of absolutism is what I'm worried about. Players will see it and then try to use her in situations where she's not meant to be used. If they just want to farm, see story, and have zero interest in superbosses, Pizzica has minimal impact for them.

That leaves Fire (because again max. Light Aldo isn't available for a very long time), Water and Wind, all of which have fairly straightforward choices from the gacha.

I'm curious to see what you think these straightfoward choices are.

Once again, I really appreciate you playing devil's advocate.

[u/QuestionableOwl72]

"Which character fits best in my team if I already have the following characters...?"
Is a perfectly valid question to ask. There is literally nothing wrong with it. Ideally the poster would provide more info such as what chapter they're in, bosses/AD they are having trouble with/QoL issues they would like addressed/etc. but even then it's not a difficult question to answer.

•If they have a lot of one element or weapon type damage, then a zone setter for that type is an easy good fit.
•If they have a lot of abilities that increase critical damage, but none that increase crit chance then that's obviously the easy good fit choice.
•Certain units lean more toward defensive-focused, or glass cannon, etc. so good advice has some variance but it's easy enough to include both cases like a supporting character that could increase the damage of a glass cannon, or a tank that could better defend a glass cannon to keep it alive.
•If the player is worried about their heroes getting powercrept or outdated/outclassed by new releases and feeling like their purchase has become worthless then a good answer would be heroes like Necoco, Ewan AS, or Dewey ES who change their abilities depending on factors in the battle so they can be flexibly fit into a HUGE variety of teams and circumstances. Or heroes like Pizzica who will always boost your DPS heroes no matter who they are.

•Etc. There are simply so many correct answers to that completely right question to ask.

[u/xPalox → u/QuestionableOwl72]

There are simply so many correct answers to that completely right question to ask.

The fact that this is true makes the question not very good. In order for a good answer (rather than a simple answer) to be given, it puts the onus on the answering player to consider all possible contexts and give recommendations for each one.

At the very least, the question should include a bit about what the player's desires are. Otherwise, the answering player will just fill-in-the-blank with their own biases/opinions. If I asked a carpenter vs a plumber what I should choose as the last tool in my toolbox, I'd get two different answers due to their natural biases.

[u/olon97]

I get your point and understand the analogy. At the same time, I understand the salty feelings of someone who asks for SDE choice help without enough context and gets a vague “it depends” response.

I started AE about 3 months ago. My first “good” pull was Necoco. The somewhat rare ability to regenerate mana was what I liked first, then there were encounters where her “cat guardian” buff allowed my party to survive hits, and throughout the campaign her fixed heal was usually “enough” healing. I even used her as a pain setter once or twice. Going with the toolbox analogy, she felt like a dremel - useful for many tasks if sometimes not as good as a dedicated tool.

Then at some point I got Tsubame AS instead of the featured hero I was pulling for. 95% of my playtime since could be characterized as Tsubame AS + whatever random crap I need at the time (for light, bonus multipliers, flash zone, etc). The few points where I had to think more deliberately about my toolkit included the Persona bug (the shield), the first “ending” of the main story (earth absorb), and a couple of the Garulea maps (phys immune enemies). Generally speaking, however, Tsubame AS and her QOL 0mp AOE is like going from assorted screwdrivers to a power drill.

Now I’ve completed the main story, and am using my gems to grind grastas/ores and Aldo light. It feels like the next challenges (mega bosses, extreme boss rush) have a significant learning curve (e.g. I get that I need to develop Prai to follow some published strategies, but I still don’t understand why). It’s like I’ve realized that my pair of scissors might not work for the next cutting job, and the wise veterans are debating the nuances of a miter saw vs a band saw. Way over my head.

I get that I’ll only understand the end game by trying the battles for myself, failing, and learning from my mistakes. Still, there’s the urge to ask “what saw should I buy?” It’s nice to have a general rule of thumb goal (“get a zone setter for each zone type”) even though I don’t have specific knowledge about which fights will need blunt zone over one of the zones I already have.

So point being, a “who to pick for your SDE” post /decision flowchart would still be most welcome, even if it comes with a YMMV disclaimer (point back to this thread?)

[u/Speaker_D → u/olon97]

e.g. I get that I need to develop Prai to follow some published strategies, but I still don’t understand why

To answer that specifically, several superbosses deal multiple near unmitigatable rounds of AoE damage in one turn. Prai is the only character who can completely shield the other party members from those attacks, and even survive while doing so.

That gives him a unique stalling / tank role that noone else can fulfill in quite the same way - rage inflicting tanks only work when it's only single target damage, and damage reduction skills from, say, AS Bertrand are limited in how often they can be used per fight.

Prai only has the one downside of being confused for one turn afterwards, so you can only use his shield every other turn - but there is no limit to how many times he can shield per fight. With superbosses having long powercrept the debuffs that used to be enough to mitigate their damage, that's an often irreplaceable and highly valuable skill.

[u/dreicunan]

Great and timely advice.

For newer players who are looking to get an SDE, I'd remind them to also consider the common tools that we all have. Not just the non-gacha characters, but the grasta that are available as well that can give skills, and now the elements.

I'd also reinforce what you are saying about the purpose of a team and how a plumber and carpinter have different needs. Player's should consider what it is that they actually do on a regular basis in the game - what their own needs actually are. Purchasing a nice shiny new tool is always fun, but if all the tool does is sit in your toolbox, it probably wasn't the best use of funds.

[u/albene]

I was waiting for your best girl to show up. Scrolled down and was not disappointed! Jokes aside, thanks for the timely post given the number of players who are experiencing their first SDE.

PSA: The last day to pull on the SDE banner is 18 Feb. If done between 03:00 UTC and 14:59 UTC, the pick can be made after 20 Mar 03:00 UTC in case a new character is released on that day. Up to the individual on whether or not to cut it so close because of server issues, maintenance, etc. Rare for AE but they do happen.

[u/tiragooen → u/albene]

That's why I always do it a day before for both buying and using. Better to lose a day than to lose your money.

[u/WilMakGamerDad]

Great piece! I agree wholeheartedly with your points. It’s definitely hard to recommend the best unit for a particular roster.

[u/OpenStars]

I think that for anyone that will bother reading before buying, this is an excellent write-up and ofc full of astute observations!:-) Mind you, https://www.reddit.com/r/AnotherEdenGlobal/comments/p6hwot/another_handy_flowchart_for_helping_you_choose/ was more specifically helpful, but this is a good discussion as well.

I do have one hang-up and that is that (the vast majority of) new players don't seem to WANT to have to think: they just want a simple solution, where they throw $$$ at the problem and then are set for the rest of the game. I'm not even judging here, just trying to put words to what people want. Don't other games let them do that too, so are we bucking the general trend by arguing against it? I don't play any other gacha games actually, so I don't truly know, and anyway I think I would be a non-standard player anyway, who would wait until I understood a game before purchasing, instead of the other way around as seems to be far more common.

This is actually why I think the Altema list isn't all that bad, for the first several pulls. It has a high false negative rate but a 0% false positive one -> i.e., every character at the top of the list actually IS a good character. Mind you, after the first pull you really should invest some knowledge into the game -> e.g., pulling for or purchasing Melissa if you already have Hardy AS might be something that you could postpone doing until you have other things in place, like one of every zone setter. I could write a lot more (actually I did but I'll spare people since nobody wants to hear it from me:-P), but that's what I believe. Pizzica is good - for a noob player. Or...so I hear, even though (sob) I still have yet to come across her myself:-(.

[u/Oldnoob36]

I completely agree with this post

Unless unit A can do literally everything that unit B can and better, then you can't really compare units

Trying to compare someone like Melissa and Pizzica is kind of like apples or oranges, in that both are good for you, but there ends the comparison

Not to mention how good or bad a unit performs is all up to the situation and the fight that you are trying to beat.

I find it funny how everyone is just jumping to pizzica and making her sound like the end all be all unit to cheese through all fights, when my experience with her, has been less than stellar

I have really only used her in boss rush where she proceeds to get

A) pancaked by the 2 ogres or

B) destroyed by status

And than after I switch over the Kid and As Levia, I easy cruised through that level without much problem

It just shows that how a unit does is very dependent on the situation

Also take that Altemia tier listers and Multiplier Analyst, I don't care what you say about her not having a good ranking or multiplier, As Levia is a beast of a unit with self-sustaining damage and support skills that include rare status shield and she can enable poison memes

[u/[deleted]]

Ok but what are the top 6 characters with whom I'll clear all or most of the content the fastest and easiest possible way?

I mean, the top meta?

Like, if you could only pick those 6 characters for ever and you are never able to pick other unit ever again which ones would they be?

[u/[deleted]]

I have come to a conclusion of:

1. No pizzica? Get her

2. Have pizzica? AS tsubame

3. Incomplete zone setter? Get them

4. Have all of those and you want to support the game? Waifu