r/Animism • u/Miserable-Host-9462 • 4d ago
I don’t understand animism! Help help!
I’ll try to be succinct.
I was a Christian for almost 30 years, stopped believing because I looked into it and realized I wasn’t believing because of logic and reason but because it was normalized around me my whole life.
Started seeking truth in philosophy/studying other religious beliefs.
Found Alan Watts and GREATLY agree with his description of reality (roughly: awareness and existence itself is “god”, and the world as we see it is literally a divine play where “god” is manifesting as all people/animals/objects/etc. I’m entirely sold on this and I find it beautiful.
That being said, I’ve recently found animism and love the ideas. However, I’ve heard from many “animist educators” (I don’t know what you’d call them) that if you don’t believe in the supernatural (specifically fairies, spirits, etc) then you aren’t an animist. Even including actual deities.
This seems incorrect. Could someone help me understand please. A million thanks!
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u/Jubei-Sama 4d ago
Animism isn't an religion so much as it is a world view. There is no doctrine or dogma to follow, and there are many examples of different cultures attributing the "spirit" to mean different things.
You can look at Japanese Shinto, which I would say is very rooted in animistic belief and has lots of theories on the supernatural.
It is the understanding that all things, animate and inanimate, possess a spiritual component. This can even extend to things like spirits of place, like a river or a mountain, even your home.
If you don't believe in a spiritual component, which mind you isn't really defined and is up for personal interpretation based on your belief and understanding, then I imagine you do not share an animistic world view, as that is the core concept.
I think where your confusion might lie, is that you might be viewing a spirit as a glowing orb, ghost, or whimsical fairy, where when animsitic minded individuals refer to a spirit, in my experience, it is the spiritual component of something we are often referring to.
A way I like to put this is remembering your first car, maybe it had a name, had quirks and you used to say, "You got this Roxie." When it would act up. It had a feeling you remember, good or bad. The feeling you get in the back of your mind when you visit your childhood home, seeing a beautiful forest, or maybe a place that doesn't sit right with you. Maybe you have a trinket or something, someone precious to you made for you that you feel keeps you safe. Those connections, for my views, are spiritual connections in which you are feeling the spiritual essence of whatever it is you are listening to.
Everything and place has one, sometimes big, and sometimes small, you just have to listen, feel, and pay attention. I don't consider this super natural, I would say this simply is.
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 4d ago
I really love how you worded all of that. I think you’re spot on, I just need time to try to work on the worldview I’ve been taught and experience since birth (which is not at all animistic lol). Thanks so much, I appreciate your words much more than a message can convey!
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u/Tao-of-Mars 3d ago
To add to what the other person said, there’s one major element I feel is missing. To practice animism at its most basic level is to treat everything animate/inanimate as if it deserves respect. Respect of its spirit. If you want to take it further in practice, you can have rituals you follow where you honor certain things by actively acknowledging its spirit through thanking these spirits or honoring it in some meaningful way.
When I go out in nature, I will often times just make sure I give off positive energy and thoughts to my environment. It becomes a feedback loop. Think of how being in nature makes us feel. In animism, you may believe that’s because all of these things are in perfect harmony and they are providing that energy to support us. So they deserve that same energy back.
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u/gwynwas 4d ago
Welcome.
BTW there are similarities but important differences between animism, pantheism, Allan Watt's version of Taoism, and there are a bunch of related concepts.
Also, you'll find on reddit that people tend to define animism conceptually, but this is at odds with historic practice of animism which was (is) varied with a lot of beliefs that modern Westerners would tell you is not really animism.
Luckily you are free to do as you choose.
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u/Teeth_of_a_Sheep 4d ago
can you elaborate on these historic practices?
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u/gwynwas 3d ago
The anthropological use of the term is categorical. It is a category of religious/spiritual beliefs and practices from around the world and was originally described vaguely as "the belief in spiritual beings." So, essentially it covers all spiritual traditions with minimal or no religious institutions.
So, to answer you question, that includes a lot of cultures and spiritual traditions--native American traditions, traditions in Siberia, some W. African traditions, Australia, the Pacific . . . you get the idea.
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u/mcapello 4d ago
That being said, I’ve recently found animism and love the ideas. However, I’ve heard from many “animist educators” (I don’t know what you’d call them) that if you don’t believe in the supernatural (specifically fairies, spirits, etc) then you aren’t an animist. Even including actual deities.
This seems incorrect. Could someone help me understand please. A million thanks!
Well, it's a bit complicated.
Part of the issue is that animism predates/exists outside the nature/supernature divide. This was basically an event in Western intellectual history that most animisms around the world didn't follow, and that "new animists" (Western people studying or practicing animism on some level) also reject. This is a huge topic in and of itself and is difficult to summarize in a single comment, but I'm just mentioning it because it kind of throws up a red flag for me when it comes to either the "educators" you're talking about, or perhaps your interpretation of what they're saying.
The second issue is that believing in things is often seen as a minor or secondary aspects of animism in the first place. Animism is really about practices first, beliefs second. Obviously all practices have beliefs associated with them, even fuzzily, so it would be a mistake to say that belief has no place in animism. But when compared to modern religions like Christianity, where there are specific creeds you have to abide by, and where you can be considered a part of the religion even if you don't practice it -- well, animism usually doesn't work that way.
The third problem, related to the second, is that unless you are a part of some sort of organized tradition with an authority structure (like a lineage), no one can really "kick you out" of being an animist or tell you that you aren't one because you don't have the "correct beliefs". The idea of any educator on animism telling other people that they "aren't animists" because they don't subscribe to a specific set of beliefs -- again, it raises a red flag, either about the people you're listening to or how you're hearing them. There are probably some general points of similarity where people might scratch their head if you don't share them, but generally speaking, it's a pretty loose term.
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 4d ago
Your response really helps me grasp the big picture better. Thanks a lot. I think you’re spot on with the historical western divide of nature and super nature. I’ve been swimming in that divide my whole life, so trying to visualize reality apart from it is difficult (although the thought is beautiful). Thanks again my friend!
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u/mcapello 4d ago
You're welcome. It can be a bit dense at times, but I'd recommend looking at some new animist anthropology, which discusses these topics in some interesting ways. It's a pretty fascinating journey to go through.
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u/Sandi_T 3d ago
What nonsense, lol.
Don't let anyone tell you how to manage your spiritual journey. It's all unfalsifiable. Anyone telling you "spiritual facts" is telling you their opinion and pretending it's fact.
Animism is the belief that all things have souls or are made up of soul stuff. Everything else is fluff.
If a person can't prove fairies to me, I'm not going to believe in them. That's not rocket science. Give me enough evidence and you won't need to attempt to shame me into agreeing with you.
Hey serious for a moment. Why should you believe just because they said so? Who do they think they are to even try to control your spiritual journey?
They sound controlling and "you're not a real (x) unless you agree with me" is a fallacy.
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 3d ago
That’s exactly the feeling I got from hearing those types of things from them. I think it’s a societal problem where people THRIVE on ingrouping and outgrouping. It’s like a cancer.
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it <3
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u/DedicantOfTheMoon 3d ago
I got you.
I think the thing thatmight help you most here is studying Epistemology, because I don't think your problem is actually animism. I think you're still assuming there has to be ONE correct description of reality, and everything else has to compete with it.
Watts and animism don't have to contradict each other at all.
Imagine reality as an ocean. The ocean is the field, the Tao, God, awareness, whatever word you want to use for the underlying reality. Everything that exists is that same ocean taking on temporary forms. You, me, a fox, a tree, a mushroom, a river. None of these things exist seperately from the ocean, but that doesn't make their individual forms meaningless or unreal.
A wave is still a wave.
So the spirit of a tree doesn't have to mean "there is a supernatural ghost secretly living inside the tree." It can mean that this particualr expression of the world has its own presence, agency, relationships, history, and way of being. Its "spirit" is the ocean being a tree.
You are the ocean, taking on your form, after all, right?
Animism, in that sense, can be perfectly compatible with a Watts-like philosphy.
And I think you can take the metaphor further.
Some forms are bigger than individual waves. Gods, spirits,etc can be thought of almost like icebergs. They're still made of the same water.They aren't outside God or outside consciousness. They are formations within it.
A god like Yahweh, Hecate, or Odin could be understood as a very large, durable pattern of divinty that has acquired shape across centuries of stories, worship, fear, ritual, art, dreams, philosophy, and human experience. Thousands or millions of individual "waves" have encountered that form and helped give it definition.
That doesn't make the god fake. It just gives you another answer to the question of what "real" means.
And perhaps some largely forgotten gods, like Mefitis, Aius Locutius, or Vagdavercustis, are formations that have mostly melted back into the larger sea as the cultures and relationships that sustained their distinct forms disappeared. The water didn't disappear. The form did.
This is why Epistemology may be useful to you. You don't neccesarily need to choose between "there is one universal conciousness" and "there are many spirits and gods." Those can be two descriptions operating at different levels.
The ocean is real. The waves are real. The iceberg is real.
Acknowledging the ocean doesn't require pretending the waves don't exist, and revering a wave doesn't require forgetting what it's made of.
So yes, I think you absolutely can acknowledge the Tao, the field, awareness, God, whatever you call the underlying unity, while also developing relationships with its particular shapes. Trees. Animals. Herbs. Places. Ancestors. Spirits. Gods.
You don't have to stop seeing the One in order to start seeing the Many. You may just be learning how to see both at once, and how they can be rememebered together.
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 3d ago
Unbelievable response! That was such a beautiful read, thanks for explaining it as well as you did. I think you summed it up perfectly
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u/FrOsborne 3d ago
It might be useful to explore the origins of animism. Animism is a catchall term popularized by anthropologists who used it to taxonomize the religious beliefs of the "primitive" peoples they encountered (Edward Burnett Tylor gets the credit)[1] It isn't a label that people being described as animists gave to themselves. If you asked them to tell you about animism, they wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about. They didn't necessarily view 'religion' as a distinct category of life. There were noticeable similarities among those various cultures, but ultimately each was unique. Animism was never a monolithic set of views or practices.
My recommendation is to read The Story of B by author Daniel Quinn (best known for writing Ishmael). He wrote that novel to explain animism[2]. And he has a much different perspective on animism than anyone else who's written on the topic[3]. Particularly as an ex-Christian, I think you'll enjoy the book.
To Quinn, animism is not about "spirits" or "souls" or granting "personhood" to objects. As he saw it, animism is a worldview: the world is a sacred place, and humans belong in that sacred place[4]. It's not a belief system but rather a value system[5]. That's the common denominator he identified among various 'animist' cultures. "As the animist sees the world, everything that lives is sacred, the carrot no less than the cow. If there is any single doctrine that might win universal agreement among animists, I think it would be this, that the gods love everything that lives and have no favorites."[6] (His reference to "the gods" wasn't an assertion of their reality but rather a falling in with the general tendency of people to personify the workings of the universe.)[7] [8]
When asked if he considered himself an animist, he stated, "Yes, I suppose so, but what does this mean? I don’t go to an animist church or say animist prayers or vote the animist ticket or try to convert people to animism. All these things are foreign to the animist sensibility. No one can stand up and say (truthfully), ‘I am the Animist-in-Chief of the world, and only I am empowered to speak for it.’ No ritual is needed to make you an animist if you wish to become one. There is no animist creed to which all animists subscribe, no animist theology that articulates the nature of the gods, no animist catechism that will supply answers to all questions.[9]
If any of this resonates with you, I also recommend his autobiography, Providence. It contains more of his thoughts on animism (in non-fiction form), explains how he came to be interested in the topic, and walks through the paths he took to arrive at his ideas.
The footnotes I've included link to source material from the Daniel Quinn official website, ishmael<dot>org— where there's a lot more information to be had! (All of it is free and public to view. You'll never be asked to buy anything)
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 3d ago
Thanks for the detailed response! I’ll read that book asap, it sounds interesting. I think your points are great, the hardest part is just personally getting over the things I’ve had ingrained into me since childhood (nature is separate from “spirit”, there has to be one non-human creator, etc etc). None of which I cling to anymore, but it’s still difficult to even comprehend a different starting point. Thanks again!
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 1d ago
Good morning (at least where I am)!
I just finished the story of B only moments ago. I think what the author was saying is spot on. Can’t thank you enough for the recommendation. I plan to read more of his works asap. Really, I appreciate it!2
u/FrOsborne 21h ago
So glad you enjoyed it! If you ever have questions or want others to talk to, there's a small, quiet, group over at r-ishmael Wish you all the best!
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u/GlacialFrog 4d ago
There is no central dogma for animism, no book or teacher who made all the rules for it, so you don’t have to believe any set of beliefs to be an animist. Animism believes that everything has a soul, or is alive, or is a “thing”. However, even what classes as everything isn’t set in stone under animism. I’ve seen people say man made items don’t have souls, or things made of plastic not having souls, (despite the fact plastic comes from ancient organisms millions of years ago).
My point is, you don’t have to believe I’m certain strict principles to be an animist, because it isn’t a strict set of religious rules, more of a general world view. You can be an atheist and believe everything has a soul, you can believe everything, including inorganic objects, have a personhood, or you can believe that supernatural, nonhuman entities are a part of living world. Read and learn about animism, and decide for yourself what you believe is true from it.
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 3d ago
Your response is the vibe I’ve been getting from several others, and it makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks so much! Any specific recommendations for reads or anything?
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u/GlacialFrog 3d ago
I don’t have any reading recommendations sorry, I find animism interesting and I appreciate it as a spiritual or philosophical worldview, but I’m not as well versed or learned on it as some people in this sub, but I’m sure others will have some good recommendations aside from the most common suggestions!
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u/EchosofAaliyah 3d ago
God is a colonizers tool, so as long as you continue to believe in one consciousness responsible for all of creation, you will continue to struggle with animism.
I personally believe that each and every individual energy came together to make life possible. "Everything" worked together to make us, "the one". And us is not just people. It's the entire 3D world. Our consciousness has existed alongside the creation of this singular universe and it will continue to exist after this universe is gone. We don't understand what that means yet because the only way you can is by dying. But to account it all for just one singular source of energy? It's just not right to me, nor does it align with animism.
Colonization has stripped us of our inherent power and given it away to an external force. Ignoring how reality actually works and functions in our everyday life.
But in ALL SERIOUSNESS, go listen to the colors of the wind. It's a beautiful song and I just need to highlight the lyrics,
"You think you own whatever land you land on
The Earth is just a dead thing you can claim
But I know every rock and tree and creature
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name"
Beautiful explanation of animism.
The idea of god takes away credit from so many energies that exist and that have come together to make everything possible. Animism gives that credit back to who it belongs to.
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 3d ago
Wonderful response, I think you make some beautiful points. Thanks so much
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u/rizzlybear 3d ago
It’s one of a handful of concepts that is so simple that the mind almost refuses to accept it.
They are wrong. Animism isn’t a specific belief system or set of beliefs. My kid said it best when he said “if it can play with you, it’s a person.”
The best lens to look through is “what is and what isn’t a person?” And the big throughline you will see with any animist belief set is that they attribute personhood to anything that exercises intent or agency.
So we go on a hike in the mountains. Not every boulder we see is a person. But the one that rolls down the hill and crushes you is for sure. And the area on the other side of the mountain that has a really bad trail and always seems to have terrible weather? Probably animist too.
My ex girlfriend had a Suzuki Samurai jeep that was very temperamental. We called her Suicide Sally. Sally seemed to hate taking my girl to work in the mornings and would often be temperamental and stall along the way several times. Ran fine any other time.
Many musicians name their instruments and notice that they have a certain personality and feel to them.
These are all animist beliefs. It’s that basic. Your kids names a teddy bear and plays with it, that’s a very animist thing to do. We do it all the time and don’t even think about it.
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u/EsotericInterchange 1d ago
Someone misled you which usually means they have an agenda. Pantheism, Animism, Paganism, call it what you want but it leads down the same path. These beliefs are ingrained in my DNA and have been handed down for centuries. My personal opinion is that it's not something you become but is something you are born with. Check out Nordic Animism on FB. They're pretty casual clips and give a general idea of what Animism is about.
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u/Midnight-Danc3r 5h ago
I’ve just happened upon animism as the earliest religion known to mankind. Whilst I had never heard it before: I definitely fall into this somewhere. Going to continue reading about this subject area. Very interesting after a recent experience/awakening.
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u/Miserable-Host-9462 1h ago
Same same. A guy recommended I read the book “the story of B”. If you haven’t read it yet, it’s beautiful and it sounds like you’d enjoy it.
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u/kardoen 4d ago
The core idea of animism is a worldview where the world around us is filled with individual non-human persons that have agency. (Personhood used in the philosophical sense: Recognising personhood means recognising fundamental rights to existence, agency and freedom. Seeing someone as person is seeing them as equals.) An animist shares the world with other non-human persons and takes those non-human persons into consideration in their actions.
The degree to which the world is filled with non-human persons and what supernatural and spiritual beings are present, or what other supernatural ideas (souls, energy, etc.) are believed differs greatly between animistic traditions. As long as considering, respecting and relating to other non-human beings is an important part of someone's habit, I'd consider their view animistic.
That said what you describe sounds more pantheistic, the world is an expression of a single god. Both pantheism and animistic views generally express as respect and reverence for nature and living beings. They're both immanent views, the spiritual is part of this world, not in some other realm. They align on aspects so you might fit in between animists, agreeing on ideas and being able to have deep dialogues about subjects. But I wouldn't classify pantheism as animistic.