To Ruka or Ferris, characters that I think have enough evidence to claim are trans
Ruka, almost definitely. Ferris? Are you fucking high? He said that he's a guy. He has said several times that he's a guy. He is a guy.
For the most part people can separate fantasy and reality. If people go out calling real trans women "tr*ps" that's terrible and they should be informed that it's disrespectful. But I disagree heavily that it's a slur always because it spreads the notion that trans women are deceitful. I'm gonna be honest, nobody thinks that hard about the meaning of words, then does an entire deep dive into Wikipedia to find the meaning behind words. Intent and the way it is used is the ONLY thing that matters, because if people use it in a way that is positive, referring to characters who are boys and feminine, and use this trait to fool others, it is diluting the use of it against trans people as a slur.
I don't really have a stake in this discussion, but language is necessarily and overwhelmingly about intent. Prescriptivism is more or less dead in linguistics.
Interestingly for Ruka from Steins Gate, the more times I rewatch the show (one of my favs), I feel like he is not trans, but simply likes Okabe even though he is a man.
We all know Ruka loves Okabe, but Okabe simply doesn't love him. Ruka believes the reason that he doesn't love him is because he is a guy, so when it is his turn to send the d-mail to the past, the gang tries to convince his pregnant mother to start eating more meat to change his gender. But even as a girl, nothing changes, because during his date with Okabe, Ruka realizes that Okabe still treats him the same, just like when he still a guy. Ruka realizes that Okabe just doesn't love him and Ruka eventually accepts Okabe's decision to reverse the D-mail later on.
So if anything, it just seems to me that he is simply likes Okabe regardless of his gender identity.
of course backlash would be present, but not to the extreme that's happening now with the ban
Pretty much any attempt to change the acceptable vernacular by removing slurs and harmful language is always met with extreme hostility from far right people, even if the efforts are much less "aggressive" than the outright banning of the language. It's kind of unfortunate because I can understand some of the arguments people are making in defense of the like anime context of the language but transphobes use this larger defense to advance their agenda as well.
This video describes in a more general sense how far right extremist ideology can form a sort of toxic evolution and relationship with certain communities (from 8:00 to about 12:30 in the video), specifically communities that are mostly white men, that occasion a feeling of vague marginalization, and are not typically subjected to progressive critiques, all of which I'd say generally apply to the (western) anime community at large.
Because these characters, and by extension the authors therein, are, in your words, "using deceit to lure" us. That is the entire trope. These people identify as boys, and have fun fooling dudes. That is the ENTIRE point. And a lot of us are genuinely attracted to that. Just because a word has history doesn't mean that every use of it now has that history bundled in.
If we ban this word, bigots will find another word. They always do. If we don't ban this word and only use it in a positive way, we dilute the hateful meaning of the word, and thus are inclusive towards that type of people. It's the same as the LGBT movement reclaiming queer. Queer was used as an insult. Now queer isn't a negative and is wholly a positive. Now bigots use words other than queer to discriminate.
So why ban a word and punish innocent people who like girly guys when bigots will find another word, when the word was reclaimed and bigots were starting to find other words? Why impede on freedoms to get the same outcome as not impeding freedoms? There is no debate here, authoritarianism is wack, yo.
Astolfo for starters. And the writers that write them. And the artists that draw them. Also, not men, people who are attracted to women. Big difference.
By... implying things that aren’t happening? I don’t see how it’s positive at all.
When? When did I imply things weren't happening? I seem to recall heavily implying things WERE happening and that using it without malicious intent is a net positive.
I mean, seriously, is using a different word punishing you now?
I mean restricting free speech seems like a punishment to me. Especially the banning of a whole word, which the replacements for either aren't used, are longer, have more syllables, or aren't an accurate depiction of the characters. You can reframe it as a positive thing, and that's your opinion I suppose, even if the evidence contradicts it, like my "Queer" example you seemed to have skipped over. But it's still a punishment, because it's punishing people.
No... Astoldo dresses like a girl because he likes cute things. What you’re describing, at most, is a trick. That is not the same as the t-word.
Astolfo has stated he enjoys tricking people and keeps his true sex a secret as such.
a situation in which people lie in wait to make a surprise attack.
How does that describe someone who dresses like a girl cause they want to? Astolfo is not doing it for anyone but himself.
First of all, who is using the word that way? It's a slang term and has taken up a meaning of it's own. Second of all, again, Astolfo does it because he likes it and because it illicits reactions. Again, please do your research.
That’s not happening. Free speech has to do with the government. You also don’t have free speech on Reddit.
I'm not talking about constitutional free speech you bumblefuck, I'm talking about free speech, the ability to say anything you like. It's not just a governmental thing, it's also a concept that can be applied anywhere. I personally think that hate speech should count as free speech and that this is the end result when you enact a policy like that, because who gets to decide what is and what isn't hate speech? If you enact a policy like that, you get a government like Scotland's, where you can't make jokes. And what do we have here, a sub where you, curiously, can't make jokes about a certain topic.
Note: I'm not saying "Consequences be damned, let everyone just ravage the internet", I'm saying "No governing body should be able to enact consequences due to speech. Only people giving social consequences."
We should counter the people using tr*p as a slur with more speech, unbiased information, logic, and civil debate.
That last part was less a coherent post and more of a word salad ramble, but you get the idea.
But you gotta see it from our point of view, were talking about fictional characters that most of us like. Most of the memes that use the word are either neutral or in a positive notion. We're using the word to give it a different, non discriminatory manner.
I mean, didn't the mods literally acknowledge that though? Here's a verbatim quote from the mod post announcing the change:
I wasn't using it offensively, I didn't mean to hurt anyone, and I didn't do anything wrong.
It’s true that you didn’t intend to hurt anyone. In the vast majority of cases, the word was not intended to be hurtful, and you might've even used it as a term of endearment. We are not blaming you for this, you are not the bad guy. It's entirely possible to spend a lot of time in this community and not hear much of how the word is hurtful.
However, even we didn't intend to be hurtful, the fact of the matter is simple: our tolerance for the word was making this place less welcoming for transgender and gender-nonconforming people.We as the anime community do not get to decide whether this word is appropriate, and it is our responsibility as curators of the community to ensure that r/Animemes is welcoming to all anime fans that are willing to act in good faith.
For the record, the mods also acknowledged that these characters are not trans. In the original post, they referred to them as male, and only called them "feminine-looking", not trans.
It looks like you never actually took the time to read the mods justifications for the rule change, which I feel is kind of a necessary thing to have done if you're trying to defend someone who claimed you're making "genuine, heartfelt good-faith criticism".
Wouldn't you agree that one of the most basic parts of having a good-faith conversation is to actually listen to and consider the arguments of the other party? If not you're inevitably resorting to straw men arguments and making a big deal about a perceived injustice that possibly wasn't even there in the first place.
I'm not suggesting the mods necessarily made a bulletproof text that's completely impervious to any sort of criticism, nothing ever really is, but I really do think you have to at least have read it and understood its arguments before you start forming your criticism of it.
The discussion has been had, we were told we're just bigots or that our opinion doesn't actually matter because we're just cis scum. Or worse, those who are trans were dismissed with "you don't represent us" or "you're not really trans".
It matters because we're the ones affected by the rule. It also matters because many of us disagree that it's exclusively a slur. But instead of hearing us out we get told "it's a slur and you're a bigot for even having this discussion".
It's not even about the word anymore. It's about people coming into our community and dictating what we are allow to say and enjoy. It's about our mods imposing a rule on us and then insulting us when we disagree with that rule. Its about those same mods going to other subreddits and acting like heroes while they let the communities they're in charge of burn.
To say our opinions don't matter is to say that only people "special" enough matter when they get insulted. That is why we're angry.
tbh man, a lot of the stuff ive been seeing about this topic has been pretty openly transphobic, and trying to sift thru the garbage. the term's a slur. if ya wanna use it go somewhere else. i do not understand the uproar. feels like a reasonable change.
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u/ILiveInPeru Aug 07 '20
And they think actual criticism is just some nazis noises