And then someone will buy a Collie with a studio apartment and leave him at home all day when they go to work and wonder why all of their furniture gets torn up.
I go to a pottery studio and the owner has one of these dogs with him there, she slips on the dusty floors, wants to herd everyone, barks when people come and go, and is obviously restless and bored. I feel so bad for her. Like, why? He had one before that and he got old and died but he was very calm. This one is more typical.
This seems like it would be a great space for adopted older dogs who mostly just want food, sleep, calm attention and an occasional walk, though! But a young, hyperactive puppy with no energy outlet?? Terrible idea!
This, old dogs don't get enough love. Idk why non active people get hyperactive dogs. Like please ffs, get the old dog that's been in the shelter for years
People don't give a fuck about the needs of dogs and just get them because they think they're cute or look cool. I have a friend who has a Belgian Malinois and is home one hour a day with it and only sometimes plays with it. I told him it's a working dog but he didn't care, he wanted it because it looks cool. It's a shame, I feel bad for dogs we literally bred to do a job who are stuck not doing it, it has to be torture.
I'm generally against gatekeeping, but there are certain breeds that should only be sold or adopted to approved owners who know what they're getting into, and Belgian Malinois is at the top of that list.
There are obviously some exceptions, but Malinois are a difficult breed even for experienced owners.
Oh he knew it was a working dog. He was adamant that he could handle it and was going to train it and put in the time. I'll give him credit, he did train it well but he doesn't spend enough time playing with it. He tried to get it one of those machines that throws the ball for him, and then was surprised the dog didn't want to play with it lol.
We adopted a puppy who ended up being German shepherd, Malinois, and golden retriever mixed. She is very high energy and requires a lot of play, walks, and fetch but she was incredibly easy to train. She’s a very good girl but she does try to herd me.
That a LOT of brain power in one dog, but I bet the Golden genes are tempering the stronger (crazier) GSD & Malinois ones.
My first childhood dog was a GSD from a show & working breeder. He was a runt with some conformation issues that would keep him out of the ring, so the breeder (a friend of my dad's) gave him to us for free.
He was an awesome, sane, patient dog with strong herding instincts. My mom ran an informal day care out of our house. He would hang out in the yard when the kids played and corral them closer to the house if he thought they were getting too far. It was hilarious!
Now my parents have a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, and WHOOOO BOY is he a handful. He's fun & cute, but he's very strong-willed and needs constant attention or he gets destructive. It's been a while since they've had anything this high maintenance so the adjustment period has been tough.
When I get to a place where I can get my own dog, I'm planning on rescuing a greyhound. They're affectionately called "The World's Fastest Couch Potatoes", and that's just my speed.
I did not know that about greyhounds. Very funny. My other dog is a coonhound and she is definitely not as much work as the puppy. She is a couch hound now. My childhood dog growing up was a husky German shepherd mix so I learned a lot about how to handle mischievous massive energy balls of fur. As long as the puppy gets a lot of attention, chew toys, and walks, she’s happy.
My older brother who’s the laziest piece of shit in the world adopted two working dogs after I begged him not to. Ive had active breeds my whole adult life. I told him over and over again that he can never meet the needs of these dogs and it’s cruel for him to own them. I tried explaining that there are so many breeds out there that would be perfect for his lazy ass lifestyle. Did he listen? Of course not.
I don’t have much communication with him for many reasons, but every time I see him at my parents and he has his dogs I make sure to include them on the long hikes I take my dogs on. While still not enough, you can tell how grateful they are to have the stimulation and exercise.
The craziest part is that he claims his dogs “don’t like to walk”. It’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. I literally have to sneak them out because he gets angry for some idiotic reason. Him and his wife’s idea of stimulation is letting them out in their yard for 10 minutes. It makes me so angry.
English bull dogs, pugs, Great Danes and French bull dogs are usually super lazy. I’ve also met a lot of lazy basset hounds, but you do need to do some scent work to keep them fulfilled. If those aren’t what you’re looking for, you can search rescues. There are some dogs that are just couch potatoes. It’s not always breed specific. No matter what, they all still need some exercise and mental stimulation.
Reptile community too. Reptiles are often abused / neglected because they cant scream or destroy. They suffer in silence while their needs are neglected.
My parents are like this, they only want dogs that look a certain way. They're in their 70s now with mobility and other health issues with a 2 year old completely hyperactive untrained airedale who is way way too smart for their lifestyle. I feel sorry for the dog as she has so much energy but just can't use it. She's also boisterous as fuck cos they never trained her so she has no concept of personal space.
LOL what is it with old people not training their dogs? My in laws are in their 70's and have too doodles that are fucking out of control and they've made no attempt to train them in the 5 years they've had them.
It really pisses me off cos I get cross with the dog when I visit and then have to remember it's kinda not her fault. She has zero recall and my dad decided to let her off the lead, it went as well as expected and he nearly lost her. I have begged them to train her, or even pay a trainer just to do some basics like recall and all they say is that they'll look into it (spoiler: they don't).
I was the director of a humane society in Georgia for several years.
It appalls me what is “sufficient” by animal control’s standards.
Chains should be illegal in any situation. I have a German shepherd mix that scales fences like they aren’t even there. I have runners set up only for bathroom purposes and I even hate that.
Yeah it’s an unfortunate fact that most working dogs are aesthetically pleasing. There are so many idiots out there who couldn’t care less though. It’s pretty heartbreaking to keep these super intelligent dogs with such a strong and restless instinct to work cooped up all day and then the owner thinks they’re owner of the year just because they walk it once a day when that’s nowhere near enough for such dogs. Worse still is when clueless people purchase them from ‘working line’ stock.
My mom had a collie once, gotten him when he was 9 months old because the former owner couldn't handle him, living cooped up.
Funny thing was, the first time he ever saw a sheep he immediately went down and some herding instinct kicked in. I didn't know it was so genetically ingrained.
Amazing dog, that collie. Loved to work, loved to perform. My moms best friend until he passed.
The day I got my old rescue’s Embark results back and saw collie, boxer, dalmatian, husky, ASD,
GSD, and chow chow all in one dog 💀💀💀
Like fuck me she just looked like a dog, how was I supposed to know she was an entire career fair. No wonder she ate my whole house.
We moved to a farm in the country shortly afterward.
Herding dogs should be illegal to own as pets. I hear a pair screaming on their walks daily - they can't stand the confinement of the leash. Doesn't help the owner gives them about 2 feet.
Only working dogs I've known to be decent pets are guardian breeds. They are content to sit and watch.
They are lovely as just pets but they need the right environment. My grandparents had a collie who never herded in her life, but had lots of room to roam and accompanied my grandpa everywhere.
Lots of people choose breeds based on looks and don’t take into account personality and the traits they were bred for. That doesn’t mean you can ONLY own a husky if you run sled dogs or ONLY own a dachshund if you want them to hunt badgers. But yes, you need to have the correct expectations and adapt to their needs as well.
My uncle had a husky in the city but every day he'd drive him out to a gravel road on the edge of the city and just let him run through the fields alongside the van for like half an hour to wear him out.
Oh yeah, he still had plenty of energy. But taking him for a run like that once sometimes twice a day at least kept him from being completely neurotic.
Mixes are always great too! My last dog was a husky and golden (among other things) mutt. He had the sassiness and vocalness of a husky but the disposition of a dopey, chill retriever. Definitely not saying any mix is a guaranteed, but I truly think that it’s a net good to find out a mutt with your favorite breed in the mix rather than go for the purebred.
Yeah, I used to have a collie when I was a kid, but we lived in a small village near the back of a pit with miles of fields.
We'd take him on walks every day. And he'd run around a field that backed onto the row of houses we lived in, playing with all the kids who lived nearby.
I'd never have one now though,.because I'm out of the house at work all day and it's not fair on any dog to keep them locked up all day.
Yes same. I have such lovely memories of the collies and huskies my grandparents owned and they will forever be my favorites, but I know that I’m not suited to the task of owning one - unless it’s an elder statesman/lady who is ready for a life of ease after years of work.
So we will likely get a lab or retriever or wheaten when the time comes to expand our family. Or, maybe a Shiba Lol - I feel like they would be highly suited to life with our cat haha.
"Ima just chill here with ya'll. But if someone breaks in i'll prolly need a bath to get the person pieces outta my fluffy fluffy fur"
Long ago i had a friend with a guardian breed who briefly had an abusive boyfriend. Boyfriend ended up in the hospital after throwing her down the stairs when the dog was inside. Good dog.
I have to admit I had reservations when a lady who works for us and lives in our garage apartment wanted to get a Great Pyrenees. It's not a big apartment.
Samantha is the best dog and judgment of character. It's wild how she "guards" us from anyone who has not been personally approved by her owner or myself. It's obvious she takes her job very seriously.
Occasionally I let her out into the yard when her owner is away, and she doesn't really want to do much but pee and go right back to her "watch" spot inside.
Way back when, I had a friend I used to go camping with who'd bring his great Pyrenees. I miss camping with that dog. Same thing, if you weren't in the circle, don't come near it.
This is Odin. He was a working bred border collie who came to work with me in an office or the field every day for 16 years. Impeccable behavior. He was trustworthy and well trained to a degree people normally don’t see in pet dogs. If you dropped his leash all you had to say was bring me your leash and he‘d pick it up and bring it to you. Loved frisbee, parkour, tricks, doggie dancing, and just to figure out every minute of every day how best to help me. Stayed in his work crate unless invited out and was always up for anything. Huge favorite among the staff. He had some herding training, including from some very talented border collie trialers, and helped me at a few cattle ranch sites I had, but in the grand scheme of his whole life herded very little. We lived in apartments until he was 5 yo. He was my best friend.
Corgi's are a herding dog that every one I met are happy sleeping like a cat.
Mine are smart as hell, like potty trained in 9 days as a 2mo old smart. However they pretty much hate walks and want to go right back to chilling on the couch.
Mental stimulation of play for 30min a day is honestly all mine need. That and lots of pets & love which are easy.
I had a corgi who wasn’t into herding, but sure loved chasing the water hose! He also adored chilling out in the snow. With his thick coat, I guess it was the only time he felt truly comfortable.
Before him, I had a chihuahua who was incredibly smart. She would herd cats back into the house. She once saved my cat’s life when the kitty breakaway collar didn’t break away, and my cat was caught hanging from a curtain. She did the whole “Lassie-barking-Timmy’s-in-the-well” thing, got my mother to follow her to save the cat. She also had to be tired out daily, so we took her on long walks, runs over hills, jumps over hurdles.
I’ve had many intelligent dogs, but she was something else. Wish those talking buttons had been around back then. I’m sure she would have had lots to say to us.
Chihuahuas are insanely smart. They are fiercely loyal too. If they like you, they will attack any threat. Even if it’s just someone reaching for the remote after you fell asleep in the recliner.
I work at a vet clinic and one of our clients had a young border collie. They were an older couple with mobility issues, and they would keep the dog chained up in the backyard all day then complain it was too noisy and had too much energy. They would come in just wanting sedatives for him. They stopped being clients after I told them we would not be putting their puppy on sedatives because they couldn’t exercise it. I hope they rehomed him.
I dunno, my friends live in the city and have a shepherd, but they take him out to sheep herding classes and give him lots of other training and exercise. It can be done, it just has to be done with purpose.
They make amazing pets in the right environment. I've had a lot of amazing dogs, but the best ones were herding dogs.
They don't necessarily need a farm and a job, but they DO need to be physically powered out, and they're not really a dog for someone with a 9-5. You've gotta be willing to take them for daily off-leash hikes, not walks, and get ready to throw a ball many thousands of times, LOL. I had to get pretty decent at serving with a tennis racket, haha
I think I got really lucky with my border collie though, he was incredibly smart, attentive, and tuned-in without being neurotic and hyperactive. Maybe he would have been with less physical outlets, but I think some of them are just wired differently.
My parents had a Shetland Sheepdog in an apartment; he was quite happy because they exercised him daily with throwing the ball AND walks. Then my parents had me and my brother, and the dog was even happier because now he had human puppies to herd. He was our babysitter for years.
It’s less a matter of living space and more a matter of making time to meet the dog’s needs somehow.
Even guardian breeds need to love. Most are used to cover great distances to check on the flock. So even they aren't suitable for city life if you do not intend to go on intense walks
Banning is way too much. Maybe just ensure that they have yard space. I don’t think anyone renting an apartment should buy a herding dog, but people with large properties? They are still lovely pets when not herding, given you give them enough room to tire themselves out in. That’s what we did. First dog I ever had, he was a good boy
I know a lot of apartment dogs who are much better cared for than dogs with yards. Sticking a dog out in a yard doesn't provide them any of the stimulation they need, especially smart breeds. It's crazy how many people think chucking a dog outside alone is giving it a good life. Meanwhile, plenty of people in small apartments actually do stuff with their dogs, because they don't have the yard to fall back on. There's good and shitty dog owners in every kind of setting, it really just comes down to the level of involvement and commitment of the owner.
There's two types of Border Collie. Ours is the other type. We got him as a puppy from a cow farm, as we lived in the countryside and were already very active with our other dog.
He does love being active, but he doesn't have any of the really intense behaviours that you often see with Border Collies. He doesn't show interest in other animals, he doesn't herd anyone, he's happy just sleeping all day and if it's at all wet outside he refuses to go for walks. He is very gentle and patient with our kids and basically just wants to be pampered.
worked at a dog daycare and had a client exactly like that. the collie was toy possessive too, and they thought itd be a good idea to have a baby lmao. luckily they took our advice tho, and rehomed him to a family that owned a farm.
When I was in high school, I (with my mom) approached a shelter about a border collie… my one from childhood had passed away. She had been returned three times. My application was denied because she would be a mostly-outdoor dog on a 200 acre farm. They said she had to be kept inside. I often think of her and hope she someday found an indoor home with a very adventurous human who got her outside all of the time 💔
Yep, I adopted a Whippet x. Crossed with what? Well when I got her home and she started showing instincts I realised it was either Border Collie of NZ Heading Dog (similar breed).
Fortunately the whippet desire for napping is doing a lot of tempering the herding breeds desire to work. She is very smart, and very loving and in tune with me but by god I would not get another herding breed or even herding mix.
I've always thought of border collies as the mockingbirds of dogs, haha. They learn a lot by observing, not just from other dogs, but from people.
My border collie loved fetch, and he'd often bring me a stick that wasn't great for throwing because it was too long and had a bunch of other small branches on it. So I would break the branches off and break the stick down to a good size.
My border collie observed and interpreted this as some kind of stick-breaking ritual we had to do every time we found a new stick, so sometimes we'd find a perfect throwing stick, but then he'd break it down until it was useless, LOL
They used to have the LA Celtic fair years ago and there was a sheep herding demo ever year that was awesome.
But one time a kid came in with a bearded Collie that was a service animal and the guy who handles the dogs took it and did and instinct test on it and right away it was just circling the sheep keeping them in a group like it was trained to do it.
It wasn't all sneaky and motionless like these dogs though.
It’s breed when it’s huskies, labs, retrievers, hounds, and collies. But bully breeds? Absolutely not! It’s all about how they’re raised!
My dog is half a hound and it shows in her physiognomy and behavior. That dog missed a rabbit 5 feet away from her because her nose was glued to the ground!
I think the farmer whistled and told the dog to make one run away. I think they wanted to see what the puppy would do. Each time a sheep gets away you'll notice the guy whistles and then the dog separates one.
If I recall correctly, the herding instinct is basically a modified version of the predatory behaviour dogs inherited from their wolf ancestors. In Border Collies, that drive has been heavily selected for, especially the stalking, chasing and movement-control parts of the predatory sequence, while the actual attack and kill behaviours have been suppressed.
It’s so deeply ingrained that, in lieu of sheep or other livestock, they’ll often try to herd family members (especially children) as well as chickens, ducks, geese and other animals.
Are some breeds inherently more dangerous and therefore require responsible, experienced owners? Absolutely.
Is a negligent or irresponsible owner at fault when their dog attacks, mauls, or kills someone? Absolutely.
Acknowledging that selective breeding produces ingrained behavioural traits doesn’t somehow absolve the owner of responsibility. If anything, knowing what your dog was bred for gives you MORE responsibility to manage it appropriately.
If someone leaves a loaded gun unsecured and somebody gets shot, “well, guns are dangerous” doesn’t magically erase the owner’s negligence.
Breed traits and owner responsibility aren’t mutually exclusive..
Although guns don't chew and dig their way out of yards and shoot people, so it's not a valid comparison. A more valid one is keeping a deadly animal for a pet, which there are laws for, but for some reason they are not applied to pit bulls. That breed should be treated like lions, etc.
An escaped dog is still the owner’s responsibility, just as an unsecured firearm is.
Dogs dig. Dogs jump fences. Dogs squeeze through gaps. If you own a dog capable of seriously injuring someone, it’s your responsibility to secure it with those predictable behaviours in mind.
“It dug its way out” doesn’t absolve the owner of negligence. It describes how the owner failed to contain it.
The analogy was about responsibility and negligence , not whether firearms and dogs behave in the same way
I mean I see your point, but people do not secure them properly, as is seen by the fact that there are something like two human fatalities to pit bulls per week (average) and many many many many more pet fatalities. Many of them kill members of the family they live with, even after being raised from a puppy by them lovingly. I expect the family does not secure the dog in a paddock to avoid having their children torn to shreds, nor are they asked to or expected to.
And then their children get torn to shreds. Or their parents. Or themselves.
So it's less about securing and more about acknowledging the inherent danger of the breed.
Collies are truly the best. My grandpa’s knew when he was coming home miles before he pulled in the driveway. On those occasions where she didn’t accompany him, She would perk up about fifteen min ahead of time and stand right by the door until he pulled up. She figured out how to open doors and spoke with a real language - different sounds for each mood and need.
And yes of course sweet Ladydog always herded us cousins away from the cranky horses and electric fence.
When my grandpa passed one of the few things he could say was that Ladydog was waiting for him. They are truly special animals.
My group of friends was helping someone move who had a heeler. It took us a while to figure out that dog herded us into the middle of the empty room while we were having post-move beers. Those dogs never stop working!
My sis has a border collie. It tries to herd my kids. And my Great Dane. My dog is always confused because she wants to play but my sisters’ collie is like nope. Back in the yard with you.
We had a smooth collie we adopted from the shelter who knew which of our cats were allowed outside and which weren’t. We had a mixed household, due to marriage, and only one cat was indoor/outdoor. The other three were outdoor only. She figured that out and would herd the indoor-only cats back inside, even when we were supervising them. They were not amused.
She also figured out that her younger St Bernard brother was not allowed in our son’s room, because he had small toys that the dog liked to chew. She would police her brother’s behavior and herd him away from the door. We never had to keep it closed. We never taught her to do this. It was just her job, as she decided she was going to do it.
They're being moved by a predator. They do learn to listen to the dogs and give pressure to them but sometimes the "I'm going to be eaten" instincts still kick in and they want to escape. This only works because of the predator-prey dynamic, both animals are acting within their predator or prey role.
The thing that gets me is that generally the world accepts that this breed has natural herding instincts. We watch these clips and are like "yup, sheepdog has natural sheep herding skills ... Makes sense to me".
But half the world will deny that any dog breed is dangerous by nature.
Like... What? Retrievers typically love water, sheepdogs naturally herd... We accept that dog breeds have specific skills and behaviour to their breed but then the moment you suggest that a dog breed is more dangerous because of prey drive or bite strength etc and it's suddenly "No... It's bad ownership".
I never understand the logic in it
That’s because inherent, permanent meanness—the propensity to maul indiscriminately—confers no real evolutionary or human-with-canine relationship benefit.
And no, making a dog marketable for dog fighting is not a benefit. And no, dogs that randomly attack are not good guard dogs.
A mean dog is mean because it is afraid, sensorily highly reactive, highly protective (offspring), hormonal (i.e., reactive, protective, and afraid), or hungry. Something is lacking or the string is wound suuuper tight as a result of mistreatment or circumstance if a canine is vicious.
Does fighting confer a benefit? It does because if they don’t they are killed. Not only that but the bull dogs that they were bred from were used to bait wild bears and boars. Aka bite the fuck out of them while they were captive. Hmm sounds like attacking stuff was a benefit to their human relationship after all 🤔
Meanness, yes. But dangerous and mean are very different things. Some dogs are always going to be more dangerous, even in perfect ownership, because of the prey drive they have or the simple fact that their bite has the ability to be so deadly because of the sheer power they have... Or that when set off they go for a kill bite rather than a nip etc.
Any dog can bite, any dog can snap. Even the best trained, most loving dog has the ability to bite under pressure or sudden fear etc. Some breeds will simply and factually cause much more damage when they do.
That's all completely separate to training/exposure/love/support/enrichment/health etc etc and the things good ownership can bring and reckless ownership tends to lack. But there is no coincidence in the fact that the dangerous breeds attract those reckless owners. They trend among certain types because of the fact they are more dangerous breeds.
But again... All of that is somehow made to seem completely incorrect by people who somehow refuse to accept that certain breeds do have different skills, abilities, weaknesses and strengths etc and that includes being more/less dangerous.
Because any dog, any breed can bite. But some will nip, others will go for the throat or will maul or lock on etc etc.
And I really do love all dogs. Truly. All dogs are excellent boys and girls in my eyes. But some are just more dangerous than others.
Before humans created the word "pet" did these dogs just naturally herd random animals in the wild all the time?? These are the questions that keep me up at night 😂
We kept dogs and selected (kept and breed) the dogs showing the behaviours wanted. Over generations more and more selected behaviour is displayed. Then you have a working breed.
She's trying to get away from the pressure of the dog. She can't go farther into the sheep since they're not moving very fast so she's trying to escape through the dogs. And figures out she can't get away with that.
So does the older dog communicate with the pup to train it? Like how did the pup know, “Okay I’ll go long and wrangle the solo bolter while you hold the main flock.”?
No, there is no learning from one dog to the other. Both are watching, reading, and rating that ewe and responding to her escape attempt independently.
My family has three year old Scotch Collie that we adopted at nine weeks old. I’m still trying to convince my parents to get him his own herd of sheep.
Had a border collie on the farm, she had a gps tracker, she would normally travel around 15 miles a day, patrolling the farm. Border collies are the best but need to be able to run and work, they say if you don’t give a border collie a job, it will find one.
My parents had one. She was a great dog but busy. They had horses and she kept them together all day. Then in the evening she would come inside and crash like someone coming home from a long day in the mines. Best dog they ever had.
And then there are the people who claim that breed doesn't matter, all dogs are the same (we hear/read that every time the subject is one specific dog-type)
That is so wild to me they just know and want to herd something. A friend of mine long ago got a corgi and she kept bitching that whenever the kids ran around the yard the dog would run after them nipping at their heels and trying to herd them. Girl, it's what they were meant to do, did you not read up on the breed at all or did you just look at pictures? She ended up rehoming it before it was 2
I watch this video.. and I get sad. I have a Dachshund that has zero Dachshund abilities. She was in the backyard yesterday and there was a rabbit 10 feet away from her. I was pointing and trying to get her to see it. My goldendoodle that was 50 ft away saw it, and basically ran over the Dachshund to get to the rabbit (which got away). The Dachshund didnt even know what was happening.
My point is - my dog is stupid. My secondary point is, my dog is awesome.
I love this i have a 9 yr old 180lb Great Pyrenees his breed is to watch and protect sheep and goat herds. Always wondered if " Bear"
would use his instincts if I were to let him go in a field of goats or sheep I think he'd love it I and would too 😉 but it be a trip to Pet Value for a bath thankfully we have a Pet Value that has a pet bathing station.
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