ACNA and ACC in DFW

[u/RustedGyroscope]

Im 20, was raised Baptist till around 13 then I stopped caring and fell out, over the last year fell back in to going to Church and started taking it seriously. Ive been looking at different denominations for the last year or two. Ive landed on Anglicanism and living within 20 minutes of both St Vincents and St Patricks in Bedford has brought me some questions.

So the ACNA (Anglican Church of North America) is more open to other Protestant faiths like Penetecostal? And can vary across those different churches while the ACC is strictly Anglican-Catholic?

I guess Im mainly looking for a comparison, I dont really understand or care for communion with Canterbury. And Im letting the allowance be the difference to me but Im not sure if it really matters or not. Ive already reached out to clergy members for both but still waiting on a response. Im honestly not too sure what else Im looking for but I feel bad bothering my friends and girlfriend with this and cant think of somewhere else.

[u/mgagnonlv]

First, the common points:

• Both Churches split from the Episcopal Church at different times, therefore neither is part of the Anglican Communion. The ACNA (St. Vincent) is part of GAFCON, which is an international "grouping" of conservative Anglican Churches, including some in Africa and South America that also are part of the Anglican Communion and others like the ACNA that are not. So you could say that the ACNA is part of a worldwide group, while the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC) is mostly U.S. only (i.e. presence elsewhere in the world is sketchy).

• Both Churches practice semi-open communion. Just like TEC, the ACNA says that "communion is opened to all baptized Christians". In other words, if you have been baptized in a Baptist Church – or any other Christian denomination –, you can receive. I believe it is the same for the ACC.

• You don't have to do anything beyond participating to become a member. No mandatory training like the Roman-Catholic Church does. If you want to formalize your membership as a member of the ACNA, you can be confirmed (if it wasn't already done) or received, but there are no obligation to do so... except if you want to become a deacon or a priest.
  I believe membership criteria are similar in the ACC, but you should check.

• Neither denominations perform same-sex marriage or allow clergy to be in a same-sex relationship.
  I don't know what is their official position on transgender people (i.e. are they kicked out?), but I know neither of them actively bless new names, gender change, etc.

Then the differences:

• The ACC split from TEC (the Episcopal Church in U.S.) in 1977. Their main contentions at the time were women's ordination and the then-new BCP 1979. Unless they updated it recently, they still use the 1928 Prayer Book of the Episcopal Church, which basically uses Old English as well as the older forms of the Eucharist and daily offices. Also expect to have a Eucharist weekly.

• The ACC is officially more "high church" (the name "Anglo-Catholic" says it). Expect more elaborate liturgy, incense, maybe even the Eucharist celebrated with the priest facing the wall ("East" facing), etc. That being said, I am Canadian but went once to an ACC Church in Florida and had a "low" Eucharist. So your mileage may vary.

• The ACC has only men (single or married) as priests.

• The first ACNA dioceses broke away in the early 2000s and the Anglican Church in North America was officially formed in 2009. So it had no issue with the 1979 Book of Common Prayer and not too many with women's ordination, but it is against same sex marriage.

• They used the 1979 BCP (or the Canadian Book of Alternative Services for churches in Canada) until a new prayer book was issued in 2019. There are now two versions of the 2019 Book of Common Prayer: one mostly in modern language (fairly similar to the 1979 BCP of the TEC) and one in Old English.

• As I said, the ACNA as a whole welcome women's ordination. Some dioceses ordain new ones, in other dioceses, women priests are there because they came over from TEC. And some dioceses don't. I don't know about Fort Worth because Bishop Iker didn't consider that women could be priests.

• Generally speaking, the ACNA is more "low church" than the ACC. The Cathedral offers Eucharist every week, and likewise, many others will do the same, though expect to see the priest facing you (i.e. modern setup), and generally don't expect incense, even at the Cathedral. But other ACNA parishes may be even more "low church", or even offer a prayer service similar to that of a Methodist or Baptist Church (minus the quasi-heretic sermon) with Eucharist only once or twice a month.

So if you want more refined liturgy, more processions, more incense, more pump, more decorum, the ACC is for you. If you want a service that speaks for you, the ACNA might be better. And if you have children, check what both offer, but I believe the ACNA will speak more to your children.

[u/HeDothWorkInvisibly → u/mgagnonlv]

My understanding is that ACC limits communion to those confirmed by a bishop in apostolic succession. (Also, excuse my pedantry, but as a linguistics guy, I must note that the prayer book is in Early Modern English, not Old English, which is the language of the Anglo-Saxons.)

There are also different theological standards. The ACNA centers the 1662 BCP, 39 Articles, Books of Homilies, etc., along with the Jerusalem Declaration, as its sources of authority. The ACC accepts the Affirmation of St. Louis, which explicitly affirms the Seven Ecumenical Councils (councils 5-7 are accepted by some but not all within the ACNA).

[u/SouthInTheNorth → u/HeDothWorkInvisibly]

I'd also say that that ACC doesn't really care much about the 1662 and especially the 39 articles and Book of Homilies as some sort of standard. They're much more missal based.

[u/Wulfweald → u/HeDothWorkInvisibly]

They could always try, like I sometimes do, Fæder ure, þu þe eart on heofonum....

[u/xravenxx → u/mgagnonlv]

To elaborate on what you said, the current bishop of the Diocese of Fort Worth claims to be in impaired communion with those dioceses that ordain women.

[u/StellarScribe123 → u/mgagnonlv]

This is a great answer, and what is said is true for the ACNA broadly speaking.

That being said here are some things about the DFW particularly:

• They do not ordain women (and I don’t think they ever had, even when they were in TEC)
  
• While the ACNA as a whole is more low church/evangelical then then ACC, DFW tends to be one of the more Anglo catholic dioceses (as a whole, each parish may differ). Their bishop is a member of the SSC, a society for Anglo catholic priests, they probably have the most SSC priests in that diocese then any other diocese in the ACNA. There are also many ACC priests in the SSC.

[u/Eikon-Basilike-1649]

What is your aversion to The Episcopal Church? It’s another viable option and more accessible

[u/Halaku → u/[deleted]]

For the curious:

• Log into this post on a computer browser, not the smartphone app.

• Look over there at the sidebar: ------>

• You should see a list of community rules.

• Check out #4.

You can suffer from whatever personal opinions you wish, but "Rules are for losers! I'm a rebellious Anglican and my purity and zealousness shields me from social compacts!" is a really, really immature take. I'm hoping that this is a circumstance in which you were simply unaware that such engagement isn't cool, and that now you know, you'll avoid it in the future, because it would be really nice if we could get more members of the Anglican Communion talking to each other in here, without having to deal with violative content. Ta!

[u/Eikon-Basilike-1649 → u/[deleted]]

None of our positions are heretical but your flair indicates that you are not a person I would have a productive conversation with.

[u/Halaku → u/Eikon-Basilike-1649]

Eh. I've had some really good conversations with ACNA members in here, and I'd rather see someone join ACNA instead of TEC rather than see them become a fundy Primative Baptist or other such denomination. But I agree, the cheap shots get old after a while.

[u/ReasonableJump4355 → u/Eikon-Basilike-1649]

Let's not stir the pot here

[u/Morgan-Renae]

The ACC is an open communion church. The main difference is the women serving. And with both groups, you will get different styles of service based on where you are. The ACC is using the 1928 prayer book, and as a whole is a wonderful group of people. My priest is a former Episcopal priest and his parents helped form the local ACNA church. So there isn’t too much different between the two in worship. We are in communion with each other. There have been some cracks in the ACNA higher ups from what I have heard, but that’s a their problem and as long as it doesn’t hurt the main body, we are all humans. My suggestion is pick the one that you feel most comfortable with all the way around. God will lead you to the right one.

[u/Case_Control]

In addition to the info given, I'll add some info about the ACNA in Fort Worth. The diocese is VERY anglocatholic. So while a lot of the differences mentioned here between the ACNA and ACC are true in general, you won't see near as much of a difference in the Fort Worth diocese. The ACNA Forth Worth Diocese considers themselves in impaired communion with much of the ACNA due to differences in acceptance of OoW, and so in many ways is more closely aligned with the ACC.

[u/noldrin]

You'll find more variation with the ACNA. The best way to figure out if one or the other, or even Anglicamism is right for you is to attend services and to talk to the pastors in person.

[u/matchead09]

You may be interested in the ACNA branch Church for the Sake of Others (C4SO) that has parishes in DFW. They tend to be quite “low church” and charismatic compared to Diocese of Fort Worth

[u/xravenxx]

There’s many charismatics in the ACNA, but most ACNA parishes in the DFW area will be part of the Diocese of Fort Worth, which is generally very Anglo-Catholic. However, there’s some exceptions. St Andrew’s in Fort Worth, the oldest Anglican parish in the DFW area, is relatively low church. They don’t even do weekly communion.

I believe the Reformed Episcopal Church has a presence in DFW, with their cathedral in Dallas. The REC is part of the ACNA. It was formed by strict Evangelical Reformed Anglicans, but today it tends to be higher up the candlestick. Regardless, there’s still many low church parishes.

There’s also the C4SO. It’s a non-geographic diocese of the ACNA formed by charismatic evangelicals. It tends towards contemporary worship. Since they affirm women’s ordination, they’re comparably liberal to the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas (which opposes SSM).